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Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity

Started by Man of Faith, June 20, 2013, 08:06:17 AM

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Joe Betik

Salam Man of faith,

The meaning of 'qur-an' depends, methinks, on our understanding of the word 'iqra' (Chapter 96), because they share Radicals (Roots). As such, some people view 'qur-an' as 'reading', when they viewed 'iqra' as the imperative 'read.' But since you proposed that 'qur-an' is 'book', what is 'iqra' then?

However, I agree with you that 'kitab' could (personally it should) be 'message', but i do not see the potential meaning could be 'knowledge' or 'information', as I believe Arabic has other terms for these two English words. I believe 'knowledge' is '3ilm' while 'information' is 'ma3loomat' and we frequently come across these Arabic terms in the Qur-an.

Cheers!
mohammed noh
"When you realize the difference between the container and the content,
you will have knowledge."

- Idries Shah

The_Chimp

Quote from: Joe Betik on December 25, 2013, 10:20:49 AM
Salam Man of faith,

The meaning of 'qur-an' depends, methinks, on our understanding of the word 'iqra' (Chapter 96), because they share Radicals (Roots). As such, some people view 'qur-an' as 'reading', when they viewed 'iqra' as the imperative 'read.' But since you proposed that 'qur-an' is 'book', what is 'iqra' then?

However, I agree with you that 'kitab' could (personally it should) be 'message', but i do not see the potential meaning could be 'knowledge' or 'information', as I believe Arabic has other terms for these two English words. I believe 'knowledge' is '3ilm' while 'information' is 'ma3loomat' and we frequently come across these Arabic terms in the Qur-an.

Cheers!
mohammed noh

Problem is he has no expertise or much knowledge of Arabic.

Earthdom

Salaam Joe Betik

Quote from: Joe Betik on December 25, 2013, 10:20:49 AM
The meaning of 'qur-an' depends, methinks, on our understanding of the word 'iqra' (Chapter 96), because they share Radicals (Roots). As such, some people view 'qur-an' as 'reading', when they viewed 'iqra' as the imperative 'read.' But since you proposed that 'qur-an' is 'book', what is 'iqra' then?

However, I agree with you that 'kitab' could (personally it should) be 'message', but i do not see the potential meaning could be 'knowledge' or 'information', as I believe Arabic has other terms for these two English words. I believe 'knowledge' is '3ilm' while 'information' is 'ma3loomat' and we frequently come across these Arabic terms in the Qur-an.

You missunderstood Man of Faith.He never said Quran = message.

He created that arguments, because he against mine intepretation in of Alkitab in 2:2.
Man of Faith just try to see "Al Kitab" in 2:2 as message, not "The Book" which it's literal/harafiyah meaning.

Quran = recitation, while iqra is fi'il/verb form of Quran and mean "recite".


Man of Faith

Peace,

No, I was not misunderstood, but it was something I have been thinking about for some time. Kitab is not literally book but Message but connotes to source of Knowledge. You see my flows of text and see message fits perfectly whereas it sounds even pathetic in some parts when you use the traditional choices. Also Quran is physically book and it is something you read from. Certainly a book can be in verbal form too but it is still book. It is an Arabic Book :-) not Arabic Quran, so I doubt it is a proper noun.

It was not really to meet Earthdom I began this talk but because I was convinced about the misconception now. Verily look at the verses with new Light and you shall see. Forget dictionaries and only think about coherence and comprehension.

The Chimp can go somewhere else and show himself. Put the face down in some Hadith books instead of fooling around here. I do not care if I only knew one word of Arabic. With God's help even a complete unlettered person could learn the whole Message.

God bless you
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

The_Chimp

Quote from: Man of Faith on December 25, 2013, 12:30:28 PM
Peace,

No, I was not misunderstood, but it was something I have been thinking about for some time. Kitab is not literally book but Message but connotes to source of Knowledge. You see my flows of text and see message fits perfectly whereas it sounds even pathetic in some parts when you use the traditional choices. Also Quran is physically book and it is something you read from. Certainly a book can be in verbal form too but it is still book. It is an Arabic Book :-) not Arabic Quran, so I doubt it is a proper noun.

It was not really to meet Earthdom I began this talk but because I was convinced about the misconception now. Verily look at the verses with new Light and you shall see. Forget dictionaries and only think about coherence and comprehension.

The Chimp can go somewhere else and show himself. Put the face down in some Hadith books instead of fooling around here. I do not care if I only knew one word of Arabic. With God's help even a complete unlettered person could learn the whole Message.

God bless you

"Kitab is not literally book but Message"

Reference? Evidence?

Nothing . . . just what you invent.

- - -

QuoteAlso Quran is physically book and it is something you read from. Certainly a book can be in verbal form too but it is still book. It is an Arabic Book :-) not Arabic Quran, so I doubt it is a proper noun.

Once more - this is completely incorrect . . . and highlights fundamental lack of understanding what a Proper Noun is . . . also higlights your lack of knowledge in Arabic.

Hence - once more - you resort to making things up . . . you do not know what you are talking about.




Man of Faith

Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

jhonsonmustafa

Quote from: The_Chimp on December 25, 2013, 11:52:00 AM
Problem is he has no expertise or much knowledge of Arabic.

Peace,

Please Show mercy to others... It disturbs peace.

The_Chimp

Quote from: Man of Faith on December 25, 2013, 01:37:39 PM
Reference is God. Peace out.

And  what does that mean?

What does that mean?

- - -

That I am right . . .you invented it from your mind . . . and referenced it to God!

Is he sending you "messages" now? How do you know it ain't Satan?

- - -

I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1XaNU20II8

Look! Australian Jesus!

Man of Faith

But I have strong Faith in The Lord. It can surely compensate some petty linguistic skill. Now the Message is so simple that I could do without the Book too if I wanted. Are we arguing when Abraham could discover about and serve God while there was not yet revealed any scripture and his father and people was hardcore polytheist?

It is only when we try to derive more meanings from the words than the simplest possible it becomes disputes. But kitab is message, Quran is book no matter in written or verbal form and can thus surely be recited with or without a physical book at hand. The Book is an Arabic book. Salat is simple and plain communication or tie to God, referred by me as Communion. Simple as that.

If one wants to make it more complicated than that well fine, but do not involve me when I am fine without all extra-religious stuff.

Peace
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

Man of Faith

Peace,

You know nothing about God so opt out from this discussion.

Reference is God and then it is the Book,
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]