Author Topic: Salat al wusta = duhr, assr or magrhib? Or all three  (Read 2135 times)

agphys

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Salat al wusta = duhr, assr or magrhib? Or all three
« on: June 19, 2015, 03:45:05 AM »
Hey and peace.
basically i have read many threads and im still not sure which one is the correct al wusta salat. Maybe it refers to having Allah in your heart?

Some say it is noon,others maghrib, and the hadithers say it is assr?

Isnt it better to pray more prayers than less?

Wakas

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Re: Salat al wusta = duhr, assr or magrhib? Or all three
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2015, 08:54:08 AM »
Perhaps you might find this helpful:

Source:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html

Quote
11) B, C, D.
 After a questionable translation of "wa" in 2:238 as "especially", the author states, quote (bold and underline emphasis mine):
"The prayers are referred to as ?salawaat? which is plural (singular: salat). Therefore by simple deduction there has to be clearly more than 1 prayer in the day if this is a reference to the daily prayers."

 In 2:238 The Quran makes no reference to the "salawaat" being "in a day", thus the use of "if" above is important to note. In a day is an assumption. Next, it is said, quote:
"If the literal meaning of 'wusta' is taken as ?middle? and which seems correct in context..."

 The author provides no reasoning/evidence why it "seems correct in context". The author then references one usage (100:5) of the verb "WaSaTa" (same root as the adjective/noun "WuSTa" in 2:238) to show that it can mean a literal "middle". However, what the author fails to mention is that every other occurrence of this root in The Quran shows it means "middle" in the figurative sense, i.e. balanced, conforming/equitable/just/excellent, average/moderate, most remote from the extremes. See its other adjective/noun usage below:

And as such, We have made you a WaSaTan nation... [2:143]

God will not hold you for your unintentional oaths, but He will hold you for what oaths you have made binding; its cancellation shall be the feeding of ten poor from the aWSaTi of what you feed your family... [5:89]

The aWSaTu of them said: "Did I not say to you: why do you not glorify God?" [68:28]

 Therefore, in terms of simple probability, the adjective/noun "wasat" in 2:238 more likely refers to the figurative meaning of "middle".

 Quote:
"As can be seen, the middle (wusta) prayer is the central prayer and is the one that approaches sunset or corresponds to the period of late afternoon."

 It should be noted that the author infers this "middle prayer" to refer to "Asr" in late afternoon, but this is not the literal middle of the day, as that would be noon (i.e. Dhuhr). Interestingly even in the article's quoted part of Lane's lexicon it gives a use of "wusta" referring to "the middle/midst of the sky" which also indicates noon. Thus, strictly the article means "middle" as in middle of the theorised 5 salat daily sequence, i.e. the 3rd one of the day, i.e. "Asr". Thus, the so-called "middle prayer" is not in the middle of the day.

 Also, technically if it is the "middle" salat, then we are not told in The Quran which is the first salat of the alleged five, thus cannot identify which one is the "middle". It could be inferred however that the first salat of the alleged five would be the first one of the day, i.e. salat al fajr, thus making "Asr" the "middle" salat. Ideally in this argument, accompanying information showing when day begins as per Quran would be helpful.

 Quote:
"This prayer has been given special attention and has been singled out for mention in the ?group? of prayers (salawaat - plural)."

 The author does not provide any reasoning/evidence for why it has allegedly been singled out. This is likely because there is no explanation from The Quran. This is perhaps why the author (and others) conveniently translate "wa" as "especially", as simply translating "wa" as "and" would make readers ask: why has the middle "salat" been redundantly singled out when it is already included in "salawat" mentioned previously? Hence, I suspect that by assigning a questionable "especially" status, may help give some credence to this view.
After saying "guard the salawat" it is redundant to say "and the middle salat", as the latter is already included in the former.

 Another problem for the author's view arises with the following verse:

Guard over the salawat; and the middle salat; and stand/observe dutifully for God. [2:238]
So if you fear then on foot or riding, then when you are secure then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know. [2:239]

 Does 2:239 refer to "the middle salat" or "salawat"? It will be an assumption to choose one over the other, although the flow and structure seems to favour "al salat al wusta" over "salawat" in my view. For an explanation of my view, please see this post.

 Further, the Arabic form of the term "al salat al wusta" in 2:238 is different to the form "salat al fajr" and "salat al isha" in 24:58, and clearly indicates it is a description whilst the latter two are a specific reference, i.e.
 salat al fajr ~ salat (of) fajr/dawn
 salat al 3sha ~ salat (of) 3sha/evening
 al salat al wusta ~ the wusta/balanced salat
 Many of those who advocate a middle salat incorrectly refer to it as "salat al wusta" as if to imply it occurs in the same form as "salat al fajr"/"salat al isha" in Quran.

 Lastly, the word "wusta" is superlative in 2:238, meaning of the highest quality/degree, hence the more apt translation of "most balanced/equitable/just/excellent". Note that a superlative requires a comparison in context, which could explain the prior mentioned "salawat", see note.
 Thus, to those who argue for it meaning "middle" it more correctly would have to mean "most middle" - thus an explanation would be required to make sense of the difference between "middle" and "most middle", if one can be found.

 As a side note, "wusta" has never been a reference/name for a salat in Traditional Islamic history as far as I'm aware. And for those that claim it refers to a clear/known period of the day, they should note that there is variance in Traditional sources about which salat it may refer to, and without evidence such a claim is baseless.

In other words, there is no 3rd salat called "salat al wusta".


Source:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-SaBiH-from-Quran.html

Quote
SBH/glorification of God can come in different forms, including expression through actions and verbally. If timed-SBH is taken as timed-salat then it is a minimum of twice daily (references: one, two, three), with an optional night vigil which the messenger likely undertook regularly [17:79, 73:20]. If the messenger opted to SBH/glorify more than others, then the individual is also free to do the same.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

FreedomStands

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Re: Salat al wusta = duhr, assr or magrhib? Or all three
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2015, 10:53:18 AM »
I find it weird that people seem to care so much, it almost seems obsessive compulsive or something at times. I think its vague in the Qur'an because its a general guideline of a practice that should be conducted, a meditative exercise throughout the times of the day, which for the Zoroastrians was 5 watches of the day or periods and Muslims had been saying 5 for a long time, I find no harm in saying "2 more" than 3, and doing it in the fashion of ordinary Muslims as well, and I think it covers the practice and also who cares?
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drfazl

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Re: Salat al wusta = duhr, assr or magrhib? Or all three
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2015, 03:24:35 AM »

agphys is right to say keeping Allah's remembrance in the heart with fear for Him between any two ritual prayers.

Again middle prayer is that which is performed at the two points of the day. The prayer at dawn i.e., in the middle between the night and the day. And the other is the prayer at dusk ie, in the middle between the day and the night.

However there exists no definition for prayer in the first place but individual view points which may be in millions.
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