Author Topic: In support of Hadith: "The Authority of the Hadith"  (Read 10831 times)

youssef4342

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In support of Hadith: "The Authority of the Hadith"
« on: May 15, 2013, 08:49:30 AM »
See the PDF file:

"The Authority  of the Hadith"
http://www.almukhtarbooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Authority-of-Hadith-Book-Format.pdf


I personally would say that i have seen the same arguments put forth by different Traditional muslims (especially by Sunnis)


Things that caught my attention as "stretching it/far-fetched":

"The refuters of Hadith cannot prove  the Quran to be the words of Allah  without the Hadith."

?My Companions are like stars. Whoever you follow, you will attain salvation.? ? Mishkaat, Baabu Manaaqibis-Sahaabah with ref. to Razeen

"Those who reject the necessity of the Hadith should eat dogs and donkey meat. Similarly, the Quran has classified only three or four animals as Haraam (e.g. swine, carrion, etc). Prohibition of other animals comes and is established from the Hadith."

"Accepting Hadith and Fiqh (Islamic Jurisprudence) is the path of the Aalims, Saints and virtuous servants. So, this is the path of salvation. Refuting the Hadith is contrary to their path and is therefore deviation."

"Without light, a book offers no benefit. Likewise, without the utterances and explanation of the Holy Prophet , the Holy Quran cannot offer benefit."

"Also, bear in mind that only the Deen which possesses the Friends of Allah is the true deen, and that which doesn?t is only falsehood. Only the branch which is connected to the roots bears fruits and flowers. The Saints are fruits from the tree of the millat (religion) of Islam. Before, hundreds of them emerged from the Bani Israel, but ever since their deen was annulled, sainthood ceased with it. Today there are many sects of Islam, but only the Ahle-Sunnah wal-Jamaat (Sunnis) have the Friends of Allah. No deviant sect (including the People of the Quran) can present one. So Alhamdulillah, only the Ahle-Sunnah wal-Jamaat are on the path of truth."
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zone

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Re: In support of Hadith: "The Authority of the Hadith"
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2013, 06:27:31 PM »
Excerpt from the Book:

?Indeed We have revealed the Quran and We alone are its protectors.?
? Surah Hijr, Verse 9

We come to know that Allah is the protector of the Holy Quran?s words, meanings, commands, and all of its secrets. This is why its reciters (Qaaris), scholars (Aalims) and Mashaaikh will be forever found until the Day of Qiyaamat. The Hadith is a medium for the protection of these treasures. If t
his wasn?t the case, the words of Salaah and Zakaat would be protected but not their commands and secrets. Bare in mind that Salaah and Zakaat can also mean ?to dance?and ?to wash clothes? respectively (amongst other meanings). In short, the greatest means of the Quran?s protection
is the Hadith.

Just to take one look into the hadithinist mindset.

Peace.

Earthdom

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Re: In support of Hadith: "The Authority of the Hadith"
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2013, 07:39:36 PM »
,Plus, this verse who describe  the hadith:

6:112 And as such, We have permitted the enemies of every prophet ? mankind and Jinn devils ? to inspire each other with fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.

Brother Youssef, the PDF you showing to us is expired arguments by Sunny against the Quran alone.This means you can easyly find the answer against them by googling.

Salaam

The_Chimp

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Re: In support of Hadith: "The Authority of the Hadith"
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2013, 10:29:35 PM »
Quote
The refuters of Hadith cannot prove  the Quran to be the words of Allah  without the Hadith.

Hi,

I am a Sunni Muslim. The above is not far-fetched. And neither is it easily provable by Googling. The current format and the arrangement of the Quran is by Hadith.

To me, claiming whole history of Islam is completely wrong and only an [comparatively] extremely small number of people nowadays have the truth seems to be very wrong. Yes, in the past there have been small sects of various Hadith rejecters, but they too have been really small in number.

Hence, to claim that the people who transmitted the Quran until now were [virtually] all misguided seems to be a nonsensical proposition. After all, it is through them Quran until this had been protected and long it will continue.

Sonny

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Re: In support of Hadith: "The Authority of the Hadith"
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2013, 12:24:53 AM »
To me, claiming whole history of Islam is completely wrong and only an [comparatively] extremely small number of people nowadays have the truth seems to be very wrong.

Well said bro,
I think there are corrupt hadiths, but, anyone who says that all hadiths are corrupt is extremely ignorant. Btw, ignorance is worst than stupidity.

Scribbler

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Re: In support of Hadith: "The Authority of the Hadith"
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2013, 01:00:24 AM »
Hi,

I am a Sunni Muslim. The above is not far-fetched. And neither is it easily provable by Googling. The current format and the arrangement of the Quran is by Hadith.

To me, claiming whole history of Islam is completely wrong and only an [comparatively] extremely small number of people nowadays have the truth seems to be very wrong. Yes, in the past there have been small sects of various Hadith rejecters, but they too have been really small in number.

Hence, to claim that the people who transmitted the Quran until now were [virtually] all misguided seems to be a nonsensical proposition. After all, it is through them Quran until this had been protected and long it will continue.

Peace be with you.


Don't the Sunni people claim that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was illiterate? But even in your own hadis it says that the Prophet was able to read and write:


BOOK 19, NUMBER 2993 (SUNUN ABU DAUD)

Narrated Yazid ibn Abdullah:

We then asked: Who wrote this document for you? He replied: The Apostle of God (peace be upon him).



SAHIH MUSLIM BOOK 13 (BOOK OF BEQUESTS -KITAB AL WASIYYA) NUMBER 4016


"Ibn Abbas reported: When Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was about to leave this world, there were persons (around him) in his house, 'Umar b. al-Kbattab being one of them. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Come, I may write for you a document; you would not go astray after that. Thereupon Umar said: Verily Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) is deeply afflicted with pain. You have the Qur'an with you. The Book of Allah is sufficient for us. Those who were present in the house differed. Some of them said: Bring him (the writing material) so that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) may write a document for you and you would never go astray after him And some among them said what 'Umar had (already) said. When they indulged in nonsense and began to dispute in the presence of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), he said: Get up (and go away) 'Ubaidullah said: Ibn Abbas used to say: There was a heavy loss, indeed a heavy loss, that, due to their dispute and noise. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) could not write (or dictate) the document for them"



Now there may be some other hadis which say otherwise, but this proves that hadis contains BIG LIES about the Prophet and Allah. So how can you trust them??? And by the way, do you really want us to believe that during the 26 years of the Prophet's ministry, he couldn't learn just 26 letters????!!!!! Really???!!! :wow :nope:


Anyway, my point is, these are the things that Sunni and Shia people claim from their ahadith which are full of contradictions with each other. So for me, there is no way any person with a rational mind can fully trust the compilations of their so-called Sahih Bukhari and Muslim, as relying on them is not a matter of joke, but to me is like putting your paradise on the line.




Peace.
Turn to Allah before you turn to ashes.

The_Chimp

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Re: In support of Hadith: "The Authority of the Hadith"
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2013, 01:14:45 AM »
Hi Scribbler,

Quote
Don't the Sunni people claim that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was illiterate?

Not really - we say he was unlettered - in other words not taught by the formal education system of the time.

Quote
Anyway, my point is, these are the things that Sunni and Shia people claim from their ahadith which are full of contradictions with each other. So for me, there is no way any person with a rational mind can fully trust the compilations of their so-called Sahih Bukhari and Muslim, as relying on them is not a matter of joke, but to me is like putting your paradise on the line.

This is very simplistic. Hadith are not meant to be scripture equal to the Quran. They are also Muslim History, that shows how Islam was practised in the early era. Also - there is a complete system behind Hadith - it is not enough to say:

" these are the things that Sunni and Shia people claim from their ahadith which are full of contradictions with each other."

Which in this context doesn't mean much. Hadith is history, and History is no joke. Quran itself is preserved in/by Hadith.  How else do we know of it.

supportpeacenotwar

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Re: In support of Hadith: "The Authority of the Hadith"
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2013, 01:24:30 AM »
Hi Scribbler,

Not really - we say he was unlettered - in other words not taught by the formal education system of the time.

This is very simplistic. Hadith are not meant to be scripture equal to the Quran. They are also Muslim History, that shows how Islam was practised in the early era. Also - there is a complete system behind Hadith - it is not enough to say:

" these are the things that Sunni and Shia people claim from their ahadith which are full of contradictions with each other."

Which in this context doesn't mean much. Hadith is history, and History is no joke. Quran itself is preserved in/by Hadith.  How else do we know of it.

Peace,

Why does the Quran use the word hadith and sunnah and not use that word to refer to hadith and sunnah of Muhammad? That in itself is noteworthy. On simple things like ablutions, why have two ways of washing? The second one looks like you aren't satisfied with the first one. That reminds me of the story in the Quran, that the people told to enter a town by saying a certain word, but even though this was a Divine command, they just had to replace it and they are described in general as persistently disobedient.
The above post may no longer represent my beliefs based on evidence and considering such topics further.
I no longer follow a "Quran only" approach.
I would simply say I follow Islam.

supportpeacenotwar

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Re: In support of Hadith: "The Authority of the Hadith"
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2013, 01:28:40 AM »
Excerpt from the Book:

?Indeed We have revealed the Quran and We alone are its protectors.?
? Surah Hijr, Verse 9

We come to know that Allah is the protector of the Holy Quran?s words, meanings, commands, and all of its secrets. This is why its reciters (Qaaris), scholars (Aalims) and Mashaaikh will be forever found until the Day of Qiyaamat. The Hadith is a medium for the protection of these treasures. If t
his wasn?t the case, the words of Salaah and Zakaat would be protected but not their commands and secrets. Bare in mind that Salaah and Zakaat can also mean ?to dance?and ?to wash clothes? respectively (amongst other meanings). In short, the greatest means of the Quran?s protection
is the Hadith.

Just to take one look into the hadithinist mindset.

Peace.

Peace,

That excerpt doesn't make sense. The Hadith shouldn't have been collected all those centuries later then and compiled. It should have been done at the same time as the Quran. And how can we ever figure out how the Creator really protects the Quran? The Quran mentions that He simply says Be and it is.
The above post may no longer represent my beliefs based on evidence and considering such topics further.
I no longer follow a "Quran only" approach.
I would simply say I follow Islam.

zone

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Re: In support of Hadith: "The Authority of the Hadith"
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2013, 01:42:11 AM »

Hadith are not meant to be scripture equal to the Quran. They are also Muslim History, that shows how Islam was practised in the early era. Also - there is a complete system behind Hadith -

Hadith is history, and History is no joke. Quran itself is preserved in/by Hadith.  How else do we know of it.

Peace.

"The Truth has arrived, and Falsehood neither creates anything new, nor restores anything." (34:49)

"If I should err, I would only err against myself. But if I am guided, it is by what my Lord reveals to me. Indeed, He is Hearing and near." (34:50)

'God is witness between me and you, and this Koran has been revealed to me that I may warn you thereby, and whomsoever it may reach. Do you indeed testify that there are other gods with God?' Say: 'I do not testify.' Say: 'He is only One God, and I am quit of that you associate.' (6:19)

A.L.M.R. These are ayats of the Book: that which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord is the Truth; but most men believe not. (13:1)

And those who disbelieve and deny Our ayats - those will be companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally." (2:39)

The Quran, as a guidance and a reminder,
7:27 O Children of Adam, do not let the devil afflict you as he evicted
your parents from the paradise; he removes from them their
garments to show them their bodies. He and his tribe see you
from where you do not see them. We have made the devils as
allies for those who do not believe

And We have certainly revealed to you ayats [which are] clear proofs, and no one would deny them except the defiantly disobedient. (2:99)

Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and earth, and the alternation of the night and the day, and the [great] ships which sail through the sea with that which benefits people, and what Allah has sent down from the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and dispersing therein every [kind of] moving creature, and [His] directing of the winds and the clouds controlled between the heaven and the earth are ayats for a people who use reason.(2:164)

The truth is from your Lord, so never be among the doubters. (2:147)

These are the ayats of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in which hadiths after Allah and His ayats will they believe? (45:6)