Forum rules and positive changes

[justamuslim]

In spite of what has been going on recently, I opened up this thread to discuss having new rules and hopefully bringing on positive changes.   

Let's not be naive that there are all kinds of persons in this world.  Actually, in the Koran God talks about them.   Let's not be naive that there are persons who like mocking, harassing, playing games, distracting and frustrating believers.   I know that there are members here on the forum pretending but in reality just here to distract and get their jollies out.   And let's not be naive about satan and how he works.   

When I first read al-amiyr's intro, something just didn't feel right.  It just struck me as being odd.  And then when it became apparent to me who al-amiyr is and what he was doing, I felt compelled to stand up.  I have pointed out his characteristics and his behavior.   I know about cults and the various tactics they use.  Also, i know about mental illnesses, and various  personality disorders.   And I also know how satan works and this is from reading the Koran. 

I feel it is my obligation to say something and to stop this.   We should not let people like al-amiyr take up seed and grow.    I ask you to google search "al amiyr forum" as another member discovered and know for yourself all the forums he has been on and what he has said and done.   I looked at the profiles of those who had been supporting him, encouraging him on - most of them joined last month.   Online gives security for people like him as we don't know the person behind the words.  He will first join and get to know the members, get a feel for the forum.  Then he creates different personas online - his supporters.  And he will also have a couple who are not.  He knows how to play the game.  He views his own threads thousands of time as a way of giving support to his claim.  If he is not acting alone, he will bring his helpers. The words of God is his weapon.  We cannot be naive and need to be aware. 

Al-amiyr is obvious and his delusions of religious grandiosity is clear.   Look at what he has done - opening up several threads, telling people what to do, how they will be astonished and saved with this secret knowledge he poses, attacking people who questioned, disagreed.  His thinking is delusional.  Look at his posts.   

I am asking the administrators to put an end to this charade now. If anyone wants to see all his posts, they can write to him or take it somewhere else.  I think these threads need to be moved to the trash category where they belong.  lets keep this forum for discussion, evaluation, discovery, learning, connecting, and based on Koran alone.   I ask the administrators and members to  implement new rules.  This forum should not be for ministering or a welcoming place for such. 

Also, when it is obvious that a member's behavior is abusive - attacking, ridiculing, insulting, mocking, harassing members then that person be given a warning and then banned.  In the course of debate and heated discussion we may respond in less than polite manner but this is not what I am talking about.   What i am talking about is the bullying, as such behavior should not be tolerated anywhere.  We need to keep this forum safe as we have some members here who are only in their early teens.  We need to be educated and aware of cyber bullying which is an increasing problem.  I am asking the administrators to please review the posts of al-miyr and the profiles of those who have been supporting him. 

Much of my time has been spent posting with the hope that I have brought awareness and hopefully some positive changes will come out of this.  I am now done dealing with this subject.  God has given us the Koran, the brain, the hearing and the vision.   At the end, we will have no one to blame but ourselves for not using our faculties. 

[Solomon]

I would have evaluated his proposals seriously had he not made grandiose claims like it's a knowledge that has been passed 44 generations. When I asked him why we should believe these 44 generations when we don't even believe in 4 (hadiths), he didn't have any answer.

Though i'm not in favour of his theories, I think he should be allowed to preach whatever he wants as long as it doesn't violate forum rules.

[farida]

For life is quite absurd
And death's the final word
You must always face the curtain with a bow
Forget about your sin - give the audience a grin
Enjoy it - it's your last chance anyhow

So always look on the bright side of death (whistle)
Just before you draw your terminal breath (whistle)

Whistle------------Day 4-----------------------whistle

[Layth]

Salam,

13:17 He sends down water from the sky, so valleys flow according to their capacity, and the flood produces foam. And from what they
burn to smelt jewelry or goods is produced a similar foam. It is in such a manner that God strikes the falsehood with the truth. As
for the foam, it passes away, and as for what benefits the people, it remains in the earth. It is such that God puts forth the examples.

If what we are pressing for here is the truth, then the foam will wash away no matter how abundent it may appear

[good logic]

Peace justamuslim, all.

From  what I  understand al-amiyr has a deadline?

It is only right to grant him that deadline.

Again we need to trust in God Alone. God tries the believers with all sorts and tries us with each other. God must bring out the true qualities of people.

Some more patience and perseverance is required.

All are aware of what is happening, each will make their choice and this episode will run its course.

At the end God is the best protector of those who trust in Him Alone.

Peace.

[Bigmo]

In spite of what has been going on recently, I opened up this thread to discuss having new rules and hopefully bringing on positive changes.   

Let's not be naive that there are all kinds of persons in this world.  Actually, in the Koran God talks about them.   Let's not be naive that there are persons who like mocking, harassing, playing games, distracting and frustrating believers.   I know that there are members here on the forum pretending but in reality just here to distract and get their jollies out.   And let's not be naive about satan and how he works.   

When I first read al-amiyr's intro, something just didn't feel right.  It just struck me as being odd.  And then when it became apparent to me who al-amiyr is and what he was doing, I felt compelled to stand up.  I have pointed out his characteristics and his behavior.   I know about cults and the various tactics they use.  Also, i know about mental illnesses, and various  personality disorders.   And I also know how satan works and this is from reading the Koran. 

I feel it is my obligation to say something and to stop this.   We should not let people like al-amiyr take up seed and grow.    I ask you to google search "al amiyr forum" as another member discovered and know for yourself all the forums he has been on and what he has said and done.   I looked at the profiles of those who had been supporting him, encouraging him on - most of them joined last month.   Online gives security for people like him as we don't know the person behind the words.  He will first join and get to know the members, get a feel for the forum.  Then he creates different personas online - his supporters.  And he will also have a couple who are not.  He knows how to play the game.  He views his own threads thousands of time as a way of giving support to his claim.  If he is not acting alone, he will bring his helpers. The words of God is his weapon.  We cannot be naive and need to be aware. 

Al-amiyr is obvious and his delusions of religious grandiosity is clear.   Look at what he has done - opening up several threads, telling people what to do, how they will be astonished and saved with this secret knowledge he poses, attacking people who questioned, disagreed.  His thinking is delusional.  Look at his posts.   

I am asking the administrators to put an end to this charade now. If anyone wants to see all his posts, they can write to him or take it somewhere else.  I think these threads need to be moved to the trash category where they belong.  lets keep this forum for discussion, evaluation, discovery, learning, connecting, and based on Koran alone.   I ask the administrators and members to  implement new rules.  This forum should not be for ministering or a welcoming place for such. 

Also, when it is obvious that a member's behavior is abusive - attacking, ridiculing, insulting, mocking, harassing members then that person be given a warning and then banned.  In the course of debate and heated discussion we may respond in less than polite manner but this is not what I am talking about.   What i am talking about is the bullying, as such behavior should not be tolerated anywhere.  We need to keep this forum safe as we have some members here who are only in their early teens.  We need to be educated and aware of cyber bullying which is an increasing problem.  I am asking the administrators to please review the posts of al-miyr and the profiles of those who have been supporting him. 

Much of my time has been spent posting with the hope that I have brought awareness and hopefully some positive changes will come out of this.  I am now done dealing with this subject.  God has given us the Koran, the brain, the hearing and the vision.   At the end, we will have no one to blame but ourselves for not using our faculties.

"We should not let people like al-amiyr take up seed and grow".

This sounds like Sunni/Shia Islam who then use this logic to censur and ban and even persecute. All in the name of preserving the faith and not allowing heretical ideas to spread among the faithful. This is why Quranist are being persecuted and censored in many Islamic countries. The Quran as you said is filled with people who mock and ridicule. If you feel anyone is such than AVOID him or her. People who mock have the same right as those who call upon God as long as they don't impose their beliefs on others. This is some left overs from sectarian Islam than many of us have inherited. It takes (from my experience) years for those influences to diminish or disappear. The Quran tells us that we will always face mockery and we are to avoid them. It is up to us to avoid them. The Quran says we will be struck with many calamaties and hardships and trials, precisely to seperate the faithful from the fakes. So why are you worried about the "seed to grow"? There are many issues discussed here i purposely avoid, not because of mockery only but because its a subject I may not be interested in. Or maybe i see the argument going in circles. The Quran tells us that God guides and not humans. So let God do his work and let us do ours. We are after all in the internet which is a very open global forum.

I think what happens is many here think they are doing da'wa (propogation) and thus feel frustrated when they are not able to convince someone. This forum is really about education. This is an excellent place to get educated about the Quran. If someone is not interested well many are. But I think its dangerous to start acting like the Sects and pretend we are the guardians of faith. We are not.

[faruk]

"We should not let people like al-amiyr take up seed and grow".

This sounds like Sunni/Shia Islam who then use this logic to censur and ban and even persecute. All in the name of preserving the faith and not allowing heretical ideas to spread among the faithful. This is why Quranist are being persecuted and censored in many Islamic countries. The Quran as you said is filled with people who mock and ridicule. If you feel anyone is such than AVOID him or her. People who mock have the same right as those who call upon God as long as they don't impose their beliefs on others. This is some left overs from sectarian Islam than many of us have inherited. It takes (from my experience) years for those influences to diminish or disappear. The Quran tells us that we will always face mockery and we are to avoid them. It is up to us to avoid them. The Quran says we will be struck with many calamaties and hardships and trials, precisely to seperate the faithful from the fakes. So why are you worried about the "seed to grow"? There are many issues discussed here i purposely avoid, not because of mockery only but because its a subject I may not be interested in. Or maybe i see the argument going in circles. The Quran tells us that God guides and not humans. So let God do his work and let us do ours. We are after all in the internet which is a very open global forum.

I think what happens is many here think they are doing da'wa (propogation) and thus feel frustrated when they are not able to convince someone. This forum is really about education. This is an excellent place to get educated about the Quran. If someone is not interested well many are. But I think its dangerous to start acting like the Sects and pretend we are the guardians of faith. We are not.

Agreed 100 percent. I myself is banned from all but one blog in my own country for propagating quran alone views. Blog mullahs used the same reason as this post writer uses. There should not be any deadline or directive of what we can write or what not. Falsehood will disappear by itself.

[al-amiyr]

Salam,

13:17 He sends down water from the sky, so valleys flow according to their capacity, and the flood produces foam. And from what they
burn to smelt jewelry or goods is produced a similar foam. It is in such a manner that God strikes the falsehood with the truth. As
for the foam, it passes away, and as for what benefits the people, it remains in the earth. It is such that God puts forth the examples.

If what we are pressing for here is the truth, then the foam will wash away no matter how abundent it may appear

+salaam

I fully agree with the brother.

shukran and +salaam

[savage_carrot]

There are some basic directives that need to be followed regarding what we can write or what not, please read the Forum Rules.

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8177.0

Falsehood disappearing is magical thinking unless it involves a process allowing it to dissipate, sometimes a guideline as to what is acceptable and what isn't is part of the process. Whether we use that guide in our minds or have it pointed out by others. We've been through the discussion of allowing members to say whatever they want various times on this forum and the admin have voted for basic and specific guidelines as opposed to none.

The issue however isn't about let whoever spews spew, natural selection, God, truth etc will prevail and so on...or the pro's and con's of different forums and their rules. Or how sectarian's do whatever. This is a simple matter of someone who's made claims and has yet to deliver. And/or the claims themselves suspect/not evidence based etc. That's it. The furor surrounding this simple matter, involving different tangents serves to confuse the issue. There are different aspects to this, it would be wise not to conflate them.

At this point in time, the focus should be on the core issue of what are the claims, are they valid, are they being delivered, if not...why and if so are they valid and so on. The extra issues are issues as well obviously, as to why someone would need different accounts to bolster their threads, why they spend inordinate amounts of time dilly dallying and delaying the apparently inevitable etc but whatever. I myself not only find the extra issues coupled with the core issues problematic but it also points to a certain type that I've seen on forums and different platforms before in different forms.

The important thing to note is there is nothing stopping him from posting his knowledge. Nothing. We've been exceptionally lenient, encouraging, overlooking and preaching patience and tolerance. If he bows out gracefully, that's alright. However, if he sticks around making the same claims on multiple threads flooding a section, asking people to believe in him based on secret knowledge and blood ties, keeps multiple accounts for the pretence of popularity which also affect the forum and it's performance, refuses to deliver, delays and prevaricates...then we have a problem. That's not on. Not on this forum and not on any forum that wants to keep a minimum standard of sanity and smooth running.

This topic is now locked. The advice is to stop the drama and address the core issues. Any other provocative threads will also be locked. Posters are encouraged to deal with the core issues on the relevant threads.