Author Topic: Kitab (k-t-b) : Does it really mean 'a book'?  (Read 9144 times)

Joe Betik

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Kitab (k-t-b) : Does it really mean 'a book'?
« on: December 31, 2012, 08:38:38 PM »
Peace,

The word 'kitab' (pl. 'kutub') in the Q has almost always been understood to mean 'a book'.

But I find it odd though, as I am quite sure that all of God's Messengers were given with (via revelation or 'n-z-l') 'messages' ('kutub'). To illustrate this; I am very sure that a book had never fallen onto the roofs of any Messenger's house, and definitely never onto their heads.

We learn from the Q that the messages ('kutub') received by God's Messengers would come piece meal, meaning as and when required/needed by the Messengers, either strictly for themselves or for the people around them.

So logically, to me at least, 'books' were never revealed to God's Messengers. But 'messages' were revealed to them, rather.

I am very sure that a shift in this paradigm will help us very much in our studies of the Q (a compilation of 'messages' revealed to Muhammad). But you may always choose to stick with 'a book' for 'kitab'.

Browse here for word occurance: http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=ktb

Hans Wehr: kitab (pl. kutub) piece of writing, record, paper; letter, note, message; document, deed: contract (esp. marriage contract); book.

I post this so that perhaps some of you may want to consider, but you are always free to make a choice.

Cheers!
Mohammed Noh
"When you realize the difference between the container and the content,
you will have knowledge."

- Idries Shah

bkanwar2

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Re: Kitab (k-t-b) : Does it really mean 'a book'?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2013, 08:07:39 PM »
Following is a cut and paste from a discussion on another forum, but relavant to your question.

"Dear Junaid, if you would recall this discussion was started in previous thread by a question from Faisal. What is الْكِتَابُ ?  Then the discussion took several colors. This included a vehement opposition by some of irrabs, to extent they want these to be eliminated from current text and consider these a distraction for real understanding. I contended about first trying to understand the book as it is with help of linguistic rules only. 

If you would notice in current version of 2:2, I have corrected myself about understanding of word الْكِتَابُ .  This word is of such common use, that it is hard for people to even imagine; that its meaning could be different from what is accepted as common use. 
 
This is a Marfa noun. Marafa due to ?Al?, it is also a Musdar, verbal noun. Its root is ?Ka-Ta-Ba?. Its Wazan is فِعَالٌ .  The root meaning is ?he wrote from what he learned?. Plus فِعَالٌ Wazan adds meanings of ?to refuse or take a flight? to the verbal root that is molded into this Wazan. If one were to use the formula of the language ?Root + Wazan = Meanings. This would mean ?to refuse and depart from learned written collection?. Just want to share the rationale of above change. Specially some fruit for thought for those who are familiar with basic of the language. 
 
Badar 
Be aware, knowledge is not static.  My knowledge of Classic Arabic is evolving too.  Hence my understanding of the message continues to evolve.  I think, learn, unlearn, relearn and then believe; not believe and claim to know it all.

Joe Betik

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Re: Kitab (k-t-b) : Does it really mean 'a book'?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2013, 02:39:05 AM »
Salam Badar,

Interesting post.
1. Was the findings yours? If not, please dismiss #2.
2. Could you please apply the new meaning of the word to some verses of the Q where 'kitab' appears, so we could all see the possibilities.

Cheers!
Mohammed Noh
"When you realize the difference between the container and the content,
you will have knowledge."

- Idries Shah

mmkhan

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Re: Kitab (k-t-b) : Does it really mean 'a book'?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2013, 03:03:57 AM »
Salaam Mohammed Noh,

I would like to share my understanding on what is alKitaab.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us to His true path :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51

Solomon

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Re: Kitab (k-t-b) : Does it really mean 'a book'?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2013, 03:06:07 AM »
Al Kitaab might be a collection of all the books revealed by Allah to his messengers - Old testament, new testament and Quran.

mirjamnur

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Re: Kitab (k-t-b) : Does it really mean 'a book'?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2013, 04:03:47 AM »
Salam
interesting information:
let me to concluse: from Badar we get:
Quote
This is a Marfa noun. Marafa due to ?Al?, it is also a Musdar, verbal noun. Its root is ?Ka-Ta-Ba?. Its Wazan is  فِعَالٌ  .  The root meaning is ?he wrote from what he learned?. Plus  فِعَالٌ  Wazan adds meanings of ?to refuse or take a flight? to the verbal root that is molded into this Wazan. If one were to use the formula of the language ?Root + Wazan = Meanings.
This would mean ?to refuse and depart from learned written collection?. Just want to share the rationale of above change. Specially some fruit for thought for those who are familiar with basic of the language. 
 

al kitab=?to refuse and depart from learned written collection

this opinion point to the fact that al Quran = al kitab, because the Quran is the new ORAL revelation and depart from learned written collection (the suhufi abraham and mosa)

so the Conclusion from mmkhan is not right? i also was sure that al Quran = al kitab  and that al kitaab might be the collection of all the revealed inspirations/'books'- as Solomon said.

thoughts??? :confused:
Thank for help and peace

Mazhar

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Re: Kitab (k-t-b) : Does it really mean 'a book'?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2013, 04:36:44 AM »
Al Kitaab might be a collection of all the books revealed by Allah to his messengers - Old testament, new testament and Quran.

We ignore the basics of a language and conceptualize concepts in air.

In Arabic the word الْكِتَابُ cannot be written in isolation. Except Proper Nous-Names and Pronouns, in Arabic the words in default state are always indefinite. Proper word which can be written in isolation is كِتَابٌ an undefined book. Use of  الْكِتَابُ needs a sentence-text because it denotes a book which has since been defined and both speaker and the listener-reader recognize that book.

Solomon

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Re: Kitab (k-t-b) : Does it really mean 'a book'?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2013, 05:02:35 AM »
We ignore the basics of a language and conceptualize concepts in air.

In Arabic the word الْكِتَابُ cannot be written in isolation. Except Proper Nous-Names and Pronouns, in Arabic the words in default state are always indefinite. Proper word which can be written in isolation is كِتَابٌ an undefined book. Use of  الْكِتَابُ needs a sentence-text because it denotes a book which has since been defined and both speaker and the listener-reader recognize that book.

Let me rephrase: "Kitab" would refer to a book, undefined. AlKitaab will refer to a defined book.

Reading the context of the verses where Alkitab is mentioned, I can find two possibilities:

1. AlKitab refers to Quran + New/old testamnet

2. AlKitab refers to the "ayahs" or signs from the Lord specialized for each individual.

Mazhar

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Re: Kitab (k-t-b) : Does it really mean 'a book'?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2013, 05:50:20 AM »
Let me rephrase: "Kitab" would refer to a book, undefined. AlKitaab will refer to a defined book.

Reading the context of the verses where Alkitab is mentioned, I can find two possibilities:

1. AlKitab refers to Quran + New/old testamnet

2. AlKitab refers to the "ayahs" or signs from the Lord specialized for each individual.

One is masculine, the other is feminine. Miscellany of Aayaat written and compiled constitute what is called book.

Any book that is defined is then referred by the definite noun AlKitabu [or other case endings].
"Kitabuka" also means: "The book" of you. Here Kitabu is definite withou prefixing "Al".

mmkhan

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Re: Kitab (k-t-b) : Does it really mean 'a book'?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2013, 06:01:01 AM »
so the Conclusion from mmkhan is not right? i also was sure that al Quran = al kitab  and that al kitaab might be the collection of all the revealed inspirations/'books'- as Solomon said.

Peace,

Red: :nope: please take a look at this aayat.

10:37    وما كان هذا القرءان أن يفترى من دون الله ولكن تصديق الذي بين يديه وتفصيل الكتب لا ريب فيه من رب العلمين
10:37    This Quran could not have been produced without Allah; it is to authenticate what is between his hands, and details AlKitaab in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.

alQuraan details alKitaab, then how alQuraan = alKitaab?


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us to His true path :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51