Author Topic: Why believe if we cannot prove God scientifically?  (Read 6197 times)

Man of Faith

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Why believe if we cannot prove God scientifically?
« on: December 31, 2012, 04:52:24 AM »
Why believe if God cannot be proved scientifically?

This discussion is a followup of the thread "Why can't we prove God scientifically?".

Most people who do not believe in God consider it illogical to believe in something which cannot be verified through conventional science. Science is a human invention to grasp the various phenomena around us and many times we can prove its existence but we cannot explain what it is more thoroughly, its origin and why it exists. Here follows some naturally occurring phenomena:

Gravity
Fire
Electricity
Light in various wavelengths

We know they can be defined as energy or force, but we cannot explain why they exist. Why the source produces it is unknown and I am sure we will never be able to either.

Like I told about gravity in the previous discussion, we only know it exists because we can observe the phenomenon with our own eyes or instruments. This does not explain what gravity is in its origin. It simply is produced in relativity to its size/substance/speed matter.

Same goes for every energies in existence, we just know they exist and how they work. We can superficially describe them, as well as verify them with our mathematics.

Now this thread is not about any attempt to scientifically prove God's existence but to discuss why we believe in God even if we cannot prove God's existence. Like I mentioned above, it may occur illogical to believe in anything we cannot touch, feel, or measure by any means known.

The signs of God are everywhere, if you have the mind to it, but it is still relative to how one perceives the world. To me it is illogical to fathom that there is no creator that is very powerful to make the universe as we know it. I find it illogical to conclude that the universe exploded into existence with stars, planets and other entities perfectly measured, so that life could emerge on at least one of the planets.

I do not need to prove God for me to believe in a deity. The signs of all life is enough for me.   On a personal level I have the evidence I need, but it is so abstract I cannot possible use it to prove to anyone of God's existence.

I can honestly barely explain what God is. Only give you my own word that He exists, which is as you probably will say, not meaning anything to you.

If you study the theory of 19 and its connection with nature, you can find signs that it is not nonsense. But it is still relative to how one perceives the subject. You can say it is mere coincidence. It is all up to each individual.

The signs are overwhelming, but a sealed mind can yet not comprehend it.

A common atheist question is: "If God exists, why does He not show Himself physically?"

As mentioned in the previous discussion, if God would show up everyone would believe and since this life is a trial in a temporary illusion, this would nullify the test and make the life irrelevant.

If God wanted He could make everyone certain of His existence without anyone having the slightest hesitation. But then He could have made Paradise instantly and skipped this trial and just let everyone pass to the next life. However, the true reason is to expose the evil souls among us and let the righteous be left alone.

So let us now go back to the real question of this discussion. Why do we believe in something that cannot be proved scientifically?

In my opinion, firstly it is because we have personally drawn the logical conclusion that there must be a God.

Secondly, we consider that the truthfulness of the Quran is sufficient and some phenomena like those previously mentioned could not appear without a creating hand.

The composition of the Quran is mysterious and some of us have drawn the conclusion there exists a mathematical phenomenon in it further boosting our belief. Interestingly  this can also be used to draw parallels with nature.

Who wrote the Quran is irrelevant, it does not matter if it was Muhammad or someone else, we have taken the book as the truth.

Regarding some religious practices like contact prayers, it is a myth that we have to recite the Quran in Arabic. One can use any preferred language as long as it means the same thing as the original language of revelation.

The reason it was prescribed the same rituals for everyone is to unite people.

But the basic rule to attain salvation is to be a monotheist, believe in eternal life (since it continues forever in the Hereafter) and lead a righteous life. Christians who do not uphold the trinity will for example also go to Heaven, so Muslim is just a definition of those who have submitted to God alone. Christians or Jews can also be considered muslims (submitters).

So what seems illogical to some people, may be quite logical to others, so do not mock them for their belief even if it seems very primitive to you.

No matter what humans believe in there is some kind of logic behind it, like existence of space aliens or magic etc.

We happen to believe some unknown energy in the universe created us, which encompasses all things. We will never claim that we know what God is, because we only perceive the signs this superpower presents to us and nothing more. In the end we may prove who was right and who was wrong, but why take a chance? Being religious is nothing difficult, it does not require much, and I find it as logical as believing in aliens from outer space.

May the force (of God) be with you.
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good logic

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Re: Why believe if we cannot prove God scientifically?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2012, 05:36:35 AM »
Peace Man of Faith.

To each their proof? 

Scientists also have different  and contradictory views on certain aspects of Science.

To me Mathematics, Physics, Medicine, DNA, ... ALREADY PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF AN INTELLIGENT DESIGNER!

However you are right a lot are not convinced?

Allolw me to add the following to your thread:

[Quran 47:31] We will certainly put you to the test, in order to distinguish those among you who strive, and steadfastly persevere. We must expose your true qualities.


[Quran 30:27] And He is the One who initiates the creation, then repeats it; this is even easier for Him. To Him belongs the most sublime similitude, in the heavens and the earth, and He is the Almighty, Most Wise.

[Quran 16:60] Those who do not believe in the Hereafter set the worst examples, while to God belongs the most sublime examples. He is the Almighty, the Most Wise.

And you are right it is about being good at the end of the day:

[Quran 42:23] This is the good news from God to His servants who believe and lead a righteous life. Say, "I do not ask you for any wage. I do ask each of you to take care of your own relatives." Anyone who does a righteous work, we multiply his reward for it. God is Forgiver, Appreciative.

[Quran 64:17] If you lend God a loan of righteousness, He will multiply the reward for you manifold, and forgive you. God is Appreciative, Clement.

All humans ,regardless of what religion, creed or race can be " submitters".

God bless you.
Peace.
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IAMOP

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Re: Why believe if we cannot prove God scientifically?
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2012, 05:51:24 AM »
Peace,
I agree with Good Logic.

God IS proven scientifically but arrogant rejectors say that the truth is a lie.

Over and over again, even in the circles of supposed believers is paraded the delusion that God cannot be proven scientifically. It is accepted as a truth despite the entire quran repeating over and over again that science directly leads to God.

The fault is on two sides:

The kafirun who seek to distort the fair reality that God has created
The muslimeen who do not actually understand science therefore they hold the idea "God cannot be proven scientifically" so that they don't have to actually put any brain power into it and because it is a convenient cover for their creationist fables which have no actual basis in reality beyond their subjective interpretations of a clear book.

How can the reality, the universe which God created, how can this not point to its Creator in every single nook and cranny?
If God is Truth, the Absolute, then how can something which is RELATIVE (i.e. science) not yield to the very absoluteness of it?
The fact that science is relative is proven by the work of Kurt Godel in his incompleteness theorems.
The fact that God is Absolute is proven by the fact that you cannot exit this reality even by death: your birth leaves a trace that will never go.

To GOD belongs the east and the west; wherever you go there will be the presence of GOD. GOD is Omnipresent, Omniscient. - 2:215
As you fall asleep and wake up to a new day
So shall you enter your grave and arise to the last


"Now no person knows what delights of the eye are kept hidden for them - as a reward for their deeds" (32:17)

Man of Faith

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Re: Why believe if we cannot prove God scientifically?
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2012, 07:48:28 AM »
Peace,

I think you did not get my point, and/or I may have not been clear enough. I cannot agree with you more, there is too much indirect circumstantial evidence to prove God exists. What I meant is we cannot present proof to satisfy atheists because God is not a concrete object to be observed, thus it is difficult, if not impossible, to prove directly scientifically that God exists, even if there is an overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence which should render every intelligent human being a believer.

A weakness of the human being is that it requires direct evidence to the extent of being blindfolded to all indirect proof. Therefore I said we cannot prove God scientifically, it was perhaps unclear if it was in a direct manner only or not.

Of course I am aware of the vast amount of evidence to easily verify that God exists. And I am a very convinced believer, I hope you do not think I have a weak faith.

The discussion here is connected to whether we can prove God scientifically or not. Atheists claim we cannot do this because God is invisible, thus impossible to prove existence with man-made conventional science, directly.

I hope this clears any misunderstanding. Like you said, all branches of research have shown profound signs of God's existence.

Atheists also argue why God does not show up and I answered this question too, as you can read. The reason why we even live in this chaotic world at all. This is also the reason God does not let us discover Him scientifically, because then (almost) everyone would believe. You get my point now, o brothers in faith?

Fortunately, all behavior and arguments against God's existence is already mentioned in the Quran, so we are pretty prepared to counter disbelievers.

Return with your views on the topic, I'm eager to hear.

May God's light shine upon your path.
Website reference: http://iamthatiam.boards.net

IAMOP

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Re: Why believe if we cannot prove God scientifically?
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2012, 08:08:18 AM »
Perhaps when discussing with atheists you might wish to rephrase their question:

"Can God be proven scientifically"

becomes

"Can I prove God scientifically to myself and if not, why not?"

But fundamentally those who arrogantly reject the truth do not even cultivate the capacity to accept that they are wrong. It's much nicer to believe that you will get away with all your crimes than it is to know you will be brought forth and questioned regarding every minute detail, tell me if it is not?
As you fall asleep and wake up to a new day
So shall you enter your grave and arise to the last


"Now no person knows what delights of the eye are kept hidden for them - as a reward for their deeds" (32:17)

hawk99

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Re: Why believe if we cannot prove God scientifically?
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2012, 09:39:10 AM »
Peace,


The existence of God can be proven by deductive reasoning, but deductive reasoning does not
result in empirical data, deductive reasoning (ifso factso) is used in search of truths that not
necessarily are data based.  We can easily deduce the existence of God by using language,
such as:  I am a man....all men die.....I will die

creation has a creator
made has a maker
design has a designer

Synonyms: maker, inventor, originator, architect, designer, author, initiator

God, who trancends natural laws cannot be tested, therefore those who claim that which cannot
be tested does not exist are simply erroneously trying to convince others that their point of view
is sound.  But the fact that God is far above what they attribute to him (beyond natural laws)
nullifies their ascertions.

Non-believers ignore the testable science in the Quran or explain away the "clear proofs."

The question is "why does God need to be proven" "why do we care if they believe or not"
"Who is there to prove anything to"

Surah 109

Peace
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

Man of Faith

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Re: Why believe if we cannot prove God scientifically?
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2012, 09:40:26 AM »
Peace,

Problem is not that they find it easier, the problem is that they refute the mere existence of God, because of the before-mentioned fact. And it is ultimately going to lead themselves to their doom.

They are ignorant/blind to all evidence put forth, and in logical reason, meaning they cannot see why it is very unlikely the universe would create itself in its complexity.

Sometimes the corruption of religion plays its role too though, like in my own case. They find the idolatry of Jesus, Muhammad etc, and other things not belonging to religion, something that turns them away in disgust. Personally I found my way into faith despite this fact, praise to God. I started my own research independent of traditional Christianity and Islam, so I became a believer eventually.

Another fact is that it is popular and trendy to be an atheist and believe in science only. The theory of evolution, which yet is quite illogical if one thinks about it, at least without some higher intelligence involved.

These are points that make me believe, despite the fact I can not see God. Hope you feel pretty much the same.

Nowadays I have also started to notice personal signs which reassure myself. This is individual, so I guess you may not benefit from it, but I may explain at some point. I consider this a bonus and a reward for believing. Praise to God.

May God's light shine upon your path.
Website reference: http://iamthatiam.boards.net

good logic

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Re: Why believe if we cannot prove God scientifically?
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2012, 11:50:15 AM »
Peace Man of Faith.

I got your point from the start. I was adding a couple of verses to enhance that view.

Talking about " bonus". Remember in sura 12 , Jacob !:
[12:68]
When they went (to Joseph), they entered in accordance with their father's instructions. Although this could not change anything decreed by God, Jacob had a private reason for asking them to do this. For he possessed certain knowledge that we taught him, but most people do not know.
وَلَمّا دَخَلوا مِن حَيثُ أَمَرَهُم أَبوهُم ما كانَ يُغنى عَنهُم مِنَ اللَّهِ مِن شَىءٍ إِلّا حاجَةً فى نَفسِ يَعقوبَ قَضىٰها وَإِنَّهُ لَذو عِلمٍ لِما عَلَّمنٰهُ وَلٰكِنَّ أَكثَرَ النّاسِ لا يَعلَمونَ

God bless.

Peace.
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Amm

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Re: Why believe if we cannot prove God scientifically?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2013, 09:50:29 AM »
Why believe if God cannot be proved scientifically?

That is a very good question! 

Why should I believe in something when there is no scientifically proven evidence for it?  Well the truth is I mostly don?t.  I don?t believe in fairies, big foot, the loch ness monster and leprechauns.  I also don?t believe in magic and alot of other crazy claims like alien sightings.  Why?  Well lets be honest here.  There is no scientifically proven evidence for it!

Why do I believe in God?  The truth is I really don?t know.  Is it because I was born into a Muslim family and have therefore been religiously indoctrinated?  Most probably ? but even though I know this I still believe in a God and I can not explain this.  Thats how powerful indroctrination is!  Weird that i know this but still believe. But that?s just me.

If I were born into a Christian, jewish, hindu, sikh or buddist family I would have followed those religions.  That is also scary ? im just glad I weren?t born into a scientologist family because that religion is just nuts! 

Whilst I believe in a God I do not agree with any of the religious texts.  People say there are no errors in the Quran.  I disagree.  There are some very fundamental errors in the Quran. 

1.   For me the existence of Evolution means the creation story of Adam and Eve can not be true.  Why because there is no first Man and Woman.  Woman created from a mans rib??  really??
2.   Jesus was born of a virgin mother.  Seriously?  Unless IVF were available 2013 years ago I seriously doubt this.  And if a woman today tried to claim her son was born from God and she had no IVF or been with another man which of you would believe this?   
3.   Noahs Ark ? again seriously!? All those animals on one boat? Really? ? Even children have a hard time believing this one.

Someone very wise once said ?extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". 

If it is the truth you really seek then you must be prepared to ask courageous questions and question why it is you believe what you believe. 

good logic

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Re: Why believe if we cannot prove God scientifically?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2013, 10:20:52 AM »
Peace Amm.

You might have already read this?:

http://submission.org/#/d/App1.html

If you have, ignore .

Peace.

TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/