The White race are Jinn?

[imrankhawaja]

Imo however you read it the target is malaikats and not malaikats and iblis.
This sentence does not make sense to me "The teacher said to the boys be quiet, they all were silent except Dora, she was a girl."

ok if we have to go with your theory it also have some points to ponder..

for example all angels addressed ... and ibless is an angel too ,, but further explaination of his nature as jinn in the next part of verse make him .. malik + jinn.. was he 2 in 1 type being...

or he was same as jibraeel ?

or is there is anymore angle who ever disobeyed God...?

is it possible for such a higher being (maliks) /controllers/angels to disobey God ?  when they are already submit their self to God as they know the truth about God.

are angles are also giving test like humans? (apparently it looks he committed racism,arrogance ,disobeying,jealousy,selfishness) its mean he was an angle with still in testing stage what usually jinn and humans have,,,?

[hanslan]

It means status is nothing permanent.

Malaikat is a role not a class of being, otherwise MOF could not be an angel one day.


From my understanding, we are given freedom to choose, that freedom remains when we developed ourselves, its not like we become robots.  Iblis is from a class of beings called jin with a malaikat role. A jin is a class of beings that we as humans normally can't see.  From the rendition, iblis who was a jin was also given the role of malaikat but when iblis objected he was stripped of his malaikat's role.  Iblis assumed a new role as syaitan.  Syaitan is a role played by jin and humans.

[Bender]

ok if we have to go with your theory it also have some points to ponder..

for example all angels addressed ... and ibless is an angel too ,, but further explaination of his nature as jinn in the next part of verse make him .. malik + jinn.. was he 2 in 1 type being...

I would say he was a jinn who was a malaikat.

I did not study it much but if I recall some verses from memory then I think, the term mailakat can only be carried by jinns and the term malik for ins and maybe some other creatures but probably not jinns.
Thus I think the words malaikat and malik are just terms, just like al mumineena and al muminati.
But like I said I did not study this much.

or he was same as jibraeel ?

or is there is anymore angle who ever disobeyed God...?

is it possible for such a higher being (maliks) /controllers/angels to disobey God ?  when they are already submit their self to God as they know the truth about God.

According to the quran (my interpretation of it of course) iblies was the only malaikat who disobeyed that moment.
It is important not to make the mistake to conclude that mailakat always obey because of this verse, even if iblies also obeyed.
Because that verse is only speaking about that specific moment.

are angles are also giving test like humans? (apparently it looks he committed racism,arrogance ,disobeying,jealousy,selfishness) its mean he was an angle with still in testing stage what usually jinn and humans have,,,?

It was not a test but a command. When God says "be good" that is not a test but a command.
I think to get some grip of who iblies is we have to study the word iblies it self, imo he is called iblies in the quran because he is iblies and not because it's his name.

but of course this are only my speculations.

[HP_TECH]

It means status is nothing permanent.

Malaikat is a role not a class of being, otherwise MOF could not be an angel one day.


From my understanding, we are given freedom to choose, that freedom remains when we developed ourselves, its not like we become robots.  Iblis is from a class of beings called jin with a malaikat role. A jin is a class of beings that we as humans normally can't see.  From the rendition, iblis who was a jin was also given the role of malaikat but when iblis objected he was stripped of his malaikat's role.  Iblis assumed a new role as syaitan.  Syaitan is a role played by jin and humans.

Becareful Hanslan, always use Quran to back up your claims
Don't be like the others

Malaika are definitely a class of beings

22:75 is a clear example. Messengers can be chosen from class of being al malaikati or al nasi

Jinn are that in between class because when Jan is mentioned it encompasses malaikati class of beings and jinnati/jini class of being;
and when al nasi, imri-uon, imri, mari, bashar, rijalun are mentioned it encompasses insan class of being and jini class of being.

The arabic terms that are exclusive to each of the three classes of being are the following

malaikati = angels not human at all (do not eat food)[11:70][51:27]

jini = jinn or fire-base human beings (eat food) [example of usage distinguishing (6:128)]

ins=  man clay-base human beings (eat food) [15:28][21:8][5:75]


Think about these evidences:
- Malaika do not eat food and are immortal [11:70][51:27]
- Malaika were present before any bashar even witnessed their creation[18:51]
- Malaika-Messengers can pass beyond regions of heavens and earth to deliver messages
- Malaika will also be judged on the Last Day after all beings have been judged (39:75) 



I agree with you shaytan is a role that both jini and ins can assume (6:112) [also another example showing the exclusiveness of the arabic terms jini and ins to their specific class of being.]

[imrankhawaja]

I would say he was a jinn who was a malaikat.

thanx for attempting my questions bender bhai..

well in your previous post you gave an example with respect to the first phrase of 18 50 this example just change the shape into like this...
ibless was a jinn(boy) who was also a malakiat(girl)

if we use  controller word then probablly all the audience of that specific moment is covered by it...

angels = controllers of natural laws
jinn= controllers of free choice
humans= controllers of free choice (and successsion stage) controllers of what earth produce

According to the quran (my interpretation of it of course) iblies was the only malaikat who disobeyed that moment.
It is important not to make the mistake to conclude that mailakat always obey because of this verse, even if iblies also obeyed.
Because that verse is only speaking about that specific moment.

allright its ok
so we can assume that apart from this specific event the angels  can also go against the commands of God ..

but somewhere in quran its written angels never failed to carry/obey any command from their lord ...(something like that)

It was not a test but a command. When God says "be good" that is not a test but a command.
I think to get some grip of who iblies is we have to study the word iblies it self, imo he is called iblies in the quran because he is iblies and not because it's his name.

further points indicate a new status , or any angel who disobey the command of God turn into ibless..
so its mean although we are not aware how many angels till date disobey the lord and how many achieve the status of ibless.. but it can be possible...

NOTE
just on the base of literal accuracy the using of all angles or just angels did not clear the point either it was addressed to all the angels of lord or the angels at the higher counsel...

its also like a principle come in the class where the teacher and students are ... and he command to them class come out...
now teacher is not classified as class of students but he is the part of class so he also move along with the principle...

18:50 And We said to the angels: "Yield to Adam." So they all yielded except for Satan(ibless). He was of the Jinn, he disobeyed the order of his Lord.

( i actually try to highlight it what i mean) now first part of the verse started not from all its just to the angles...

and then all the angels present there submitted...  first part finished....

second part there was somebody else in the play ... who was he? anwers from the same verse...

he was ibless
he disobeyed
he was of jinn

[Man of Faith]

Whatever Iblees is made of or if it is possible or not is not the question, the question is that HE SAYS he was made of fire (nar). So nobody, not I anyway is saying this is impossible or possible or what fire or nar is that. I am speaking about what the Qur'an says. Iblees is right or not as to what he was made of, but that is what he says.

And what the Qur'an says is that he was os the mala'ika.

Salaam

That may make one question how well Quran is understood if it is against something which can be tested and proven. The more interesting question is rather what naar is, I have put forth logical deductions. You agree about 4:34 and that it does not make sense, but on general things of the sectarian interpretation of Quran you follow the usual understanding.

Be well
Amenuel

[Bender]

thanx for attempting my questions bender bhai..

well in your previous post you gave an example with respect to the first phrase of 18 50 this example just change the shape into like this...
ibless was a jinn(boy) who was also a malakiat(girl)

If I was Iblies (and a other sort of type than mailakats) and the Lord would ask me why I did not obey Him, I would simply answer: "I was NOT addressed since you were only commanding the malaikats and as you clearly can see I am not a malaikat".

so we can assume that apart from this specific event the angels  can also go against the commands of God ..

From 1 verse we can assume a lot but they are still speculations.

but somewhere in quran its written angels never failed to carry/obey any command from their lord ...(something like that)

The verses that come in my mind of what you are talking about are 66:6 and 16:49
16:49 says "to Allah yasjudu..." thus not to Adam
66:6 says "malaikats who do not disobey" so it's clearly not talking about all malaikats but ONLY malaikats who do not disobey.

further points indicate a new status , or any angel who disobey the command of God turn into ibless..
so its mean although we are not aware how many angels till date disobey the lord and how many achieve the status of ibless.. but it can be possible...

No I do not think so, Iblies was iblies also before he disobeyed.
What one becomes when disobeying God and persists in it is the status kafir.

NOTE
just on the base of literal accuracy the using of all angles or just angels did not clear the point either it was addressed to all the angels of lord or the angels at the higher counsel...

It says in 18:50  "li-l-mailakati", this means ALL of them are adressed.
If it was saying "we said to the humans bow for Adam...", does any human being has an excuse not to obey?

its also like a principle come in the class where the teacher and students are ... and he command to them class come out...
now teacher is not classified as class of students but he is the part of class so he also move along with the principle...

18:50 And We said to the angels: "Yield to Adam." So they all yielded except for Satan(ibless). He was of the Jinn, he disobeyed the order of his Lord.

( i actually try to highlight it what i mean) now first part of the verse started not from all its just to the angles...

and then all the angels present there submitted...  first part finished....

second part there was somebody else in the play ... who was he? anwers from the same verse...

he was ibless
he disobeyed
he was of jinn

there are other verses like this one:
38:72 فَسَجَدَ الْمَلَائِكَةُ كُلُّهُمْ أَجْمَعُونَ

[Aladin from Azra tribe]

There're following words:

El-Insan    El-Jaan
En-Nas      El-Jinnet
El-Ins        El-Jinn

Opposite of El-Insan is El-Jaan.
Opposite of En-Nas is El-Jinnet .
Opposite of El-Ins is El-Jinn.

We should not mix them, otherwise we'll be confused.

Allah swt knows best

[huruf]

That may make one question how well Quran is understood if it is against something which can be tested and proven. The more interesting question is rather what naar is, I have put forth logical deductions. You agree about 4:34 and that it does not make sense, but on general things of the sectarian interpretation of Quran you follow the usual understanding.

Be well
Amenuel

Your imagination of what I think runs away with you.

I have not spoken a word about whether Iblees is made of this or that, wha I keep saying is that HE SAYS hw is made of naar and HE HIMSELF compares himself to adam made of mud.

Whether he says the truth or not I do not know nor I think you or anybody else knows, except he prooves what he says. Conjecture is not certainty. Conjectures I can make but I would lie if I said I know.

But HE SAYS IT. I have not said a word myself, just pointed out what the Qur'an exactly says.

Salaam

[Someone]

Peace

Just to point out that "naar" and "nour" have the same root n-w-r.

Also, electromagnetic waves do exit and have existed even though humans were not aware of them until recently. Energy can be transmitted through these waves, we can also cook food in a microwave using a smokeless fire. Light is also an electromagnetic radiation, with a wavelength within the spectrum of what the human eye can perceive, which is a very tiny part of the whole spectrum  (uv, ir, radio wave, x rays, gamma rays...)