Answering the Philosophical "Problem of Evil" Argument: God & Logic

[hawk99]

Peace,

What is so amusings about those who question God is that they think that their
intellegence is sufficient to solve questions about God. 

                                                      False Attributes

What happens is this: they attribute to God attributes that they invent,
like God is bound by time or God cannot be everywhere or God does no exist
or God does not have control,  these are false assertions.  In any disscusion about
the God of Islam, the Quran must be the source, no matter what, and rather they
accept it or reject it is up to the individual, this is the nature of belief versus disbelief.
This is the gist of the matter.

[39:32] Who is more evil than one who attributes lies to GOD, while disbelieving in the truth that has come to him? Is Hell not a just requital for the disbelievers?

                                  God is far above their claims

[37:159] GOD be glorified; far above their claims. 
[37:180] Glory be to your Lord, the great Lord; far above their claims.
[43:82] Be He glorified; He is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord with the great dominion, far above their claims.

                       Non-believers think they understand but they misunderstand. 

[6:25] Some of them listen to you, but we place veils on their hearts to prevent them from understanding, and deafness in their ears. Thus, no matter what kind of proof they see, they cannot believe. Thus, when they come to argue with you, the disbelievers say, "These are tales from the past."

To quote Godsubmitter:
Man has not enough neurons to understand God! Similarly as monkey has not enough neurons to play chess!

God must be approached from Quran.

 

[Faithful-Jinn]

I find your argument extremely weak because it is built on the premise that all evil originates from man.

Young babies that die from disease without a chance, natural disasters that wipe out hundreds of thousands, hunger, etc none of these come from humans.

Also I find it weakens your argument when you said in your original post that God chooses not to have power over certain things. This means that God is not all-good. It kind of goes against your point to say something like that. If God is all-good and wants the best for all humans and God also is all-powerful and has the power to make it so, how can he choose not to? If he chooses not to, then that would make him sort of good, not all-good.

[answerseeker]

Quote from: mirjamnur on November 13, 2012, 01:56:13 PM
Salam StopS2:30 AND LO! Thy Sustainer said unto the angels: "Behold, I am about to establish upon earth one who shall inherit it."22 They said: "Wilt Thou place on it such as will spread corruption thereon and shed blood -whereas it is we who extol Thy limitless glory, and praise Thee, and hallow Thy name?" [God] answered: "Verily, I know that which you do not know."

The quoted bolded part brought to mind a new question for me.  Unless evil existed before, how did the "angels" know that he who was being created would spread corruption and shed blood?

In many circles of those around quran, it is generally understood or sometimes stated that satan became evil when he rejected the creation of man and bowing to him, and that this is the first instance of evil in existence.  But obviously the "angels" were already aware of such a thing as evil as evidenced by the question above that is quoted in bold. So who, before man was created, was spreading corruption and shedding blood?

Does anyone have any opinion, infomation or reference from quran for this?

Can anyone help with this? If you can't give reference from the quran, can you just give me what your opinion is and/or possibilities?

Thanks,
Salaam

[StopS]

Can anyone help with this? If you can't give reference from the quran, can you just give me what your opinion is and/or possibilities?

Thanks,
Salaam

Maybe there was the concept of evil and the thoughts of corruption without actually committing any crimes.
Maybe there was a male lion who killed all the cubs of a competitor and they thought they would not do this and considered it evil, not nature.
Maybe there were roaming story-tellers who told the others stories about evil people.
Maybe they had books or simulator games with simulated corruption and bloodshed.
I think this is sheer speculation and anything is possible.

[hawk99]

Maybe there was the concept of evil and the thoughts of corruption without actually committing any crimes.
Maybe there was a male lion who killed all the cubs of a competitor and they thought they would not do this and considered it evil, not nature.
Maybe there were roaming story-tellers who told the others stories about evil people.
Maybe they had books or simulator games with simulated corruption and bloodshed.
I think this is sheer speculation and anything is possible.

Nonsense! and not from Quran.

[Pops]

I haven't read much of this thread, so if I sound repetitive or if what I'm saying isn't relevant then my mistake.

I don't really see any problem of evil. Bad things exist to test us. We're given freedom of choice and as a result some people will make the wrong choices. The wrong choices they make and the natural hardships present in this world both serve to give us opportunities to become closer to The Creator.

[Ahmad Bilal]

Peace, answerseeker.

Very interesting. If the understanding that we all and everything ultimately returns to "God", which some understand as to mean is a part of "God", i.e. "God" is closer to you than your own jugular vein, then is "God" creating or allowing evil as a means to purify parts of "God"? I mean is hell or heaven different stages of development for the parts of "God", i.e. us, our souls, etc.; that "God" wants to live out through this existence?

I guess this is one way of looking at it... However, this isn't a reasonable conclusion in accordance with Islam, since the Qur'aan claims that God is 'completely good' and 'perfectly righteous'. If this is the case, then there aren't any parts of him that need "purification". This is how the concept came about that people are constantly being perfected by way of reincarnation, and they're constantly being raised to higher levels until they reach "God". Unfortunately, the Qur'aan rejects the concept of reincarnation as well...

Peace,

Ahmad

[Ahmad Bilal]

Peace, answerseeker.

The quoted bolded part brought to mind a new question for me.  Unless evil existed before, how did the "angels" know that he who was being created would spread corruption and shed blood?

In many circles of those around quran, it is generally understood or sometimes stated that satan became evil when he rejected the creation of man and bowing to him, and that this is the first instance of evil in existence.  But obviously the "angels" were already aware of such a thing as evil as evidenced by the question above that is quoted in bold. So who, before man was created, was spreading corruption and shedding blood?

Does anyone have any opinion, infomation or reference from quran for this?

There's no passage in the Qur'aan that justifies this position. However, there are passages in other writings, such as the Judaic Mishna, that promote the idea that modern humans weren't the first set of humans (as we understand them) created by God. This is also a concept promoted by various Christian groups, who proclaim the ideology concerning a pre-Adamic race of people who were eliminated by God - thus the statement in Genesis 1:28 instructing them to "replenish" (or RE-fill) the Earth.

Peace,

Ahmad