There was a man that suffered shipwreck, so he prayed to God to save him. A fishing boat came and wanted to pick him up, but the man refused saying that God will save him. A cargo vessel came to aid him, but he refused with the explanation that God would save him. The man drowned, and upon entering the afterlife he asked God why He didn't save him. God said: "I sent you two boats to save you, but you refused my help... that's why you drowned."
The moral of the story, Allah works through natural laws and the creation... not through imagined magic and miracles. In my humble opinion, we know Allah when we can see Allahs signs and Life in this very world. If we make up a separate spiritual or religious world or dimension in order to cater for Allah, then we we have failed to see how Allah is
The Living in THIS same world as we are functioning in. Allah and the unseen is not separate from us... it is just that we have to open up to be able to sense and appreciate it. Allah can open us up to see this, if we ask for it. It's all connected and one!
Quote from: drfazl on January 11, 2013, 11:59:11 PM
To get killed; or to commit suicide on the part of the patients; or inducing the doctors to commit homicide! Finally our death will be at the hands of the doctors on their specialised death bed, in the ICU, under the care of bands of super specialists. If we believe Allah had directed us to the doctors, then, when we die there in the end - it is that Allah had lied and misguided us deliberately. And it is also that whenever we are ill with disease, we should not turn to Allah in prayer at all for Allah had already directed us to the systems of doctors to suffer the worst before death and hit the bucket financially too.
Why should we think that taking part in this world is equal to not believing in Allah? Allah made this world for us to functioning in and to connect to "him" while living here. This place is the whole point! It is in THIS context we should remember Allah.
By the same logic, i.e. not going to the doctor in order to rely on Allah, then we must by necessity also deny the services of farmers, technicians and EVERYONE that can do some service for us. This means we'd have to grow our own food, produce our own fertilizer, dig our own wells, forge our own tools and learn everything all by ourselves.
How is this different from taking the help of doctors? Should I consider myself a disbeliever just because I went to the surgeon to take my appendix out... because I wasn't in the mood of dying a painful death and leaving a family behind in great trouble and sorrow? I don't think this has anything to do with whether the medical practitioners can sometimes destroy us due to their ignorance... so can other professionals too. The point is that we must rely on Allah and seek Allah's help AND accept the help that comes through situations. We live in a world. If we deny this then we don't understand Allah and our context.
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Here is Allah's system:
And certainly We sent messengers to peoples before you; We seized them with illness and affliction in order that they might humble themselves before me.
It is up to us to rehearse the ayats in our day to day life or to while them away reciting ritually.
Here is Allah's system:
And if Allah should touch you with illness, there is no remover of it except Him. And if He touches you with wellness - then He is over all things Potent.
Now the question is the choice between the doctors and the God: who is potent? and who are impotents? Whose system will you submit and surrender to?
Allah let's things happen as per our choices. If we seek Allah's help and blessings, we will get help and blessings. The problem is when we don't acknowledge/understand/see this reality for what it is. Allah is The Living. Allah is not a separate entitiy, separate from us and what happens. Allah is always present in all that happens. Allah cannot be separated away in ANY way. Thinking is Allah and of separation in the same thought means we haven't understood who reality is made up. Allah is potent, we and doctors are nothing without Allah. But doctors can help people by Allah's leave and permission... as a blessing to people. Allah has NOT ordained for us seclusion (isn't there an ayat about this in AQ somewhere?). (Note. I'm not saying we ARE Allah, I'm just saying that we must not think of Allah in terms of separation! If we do, we will be like all the religions)
I case I have misunderstood your points dr fazl, then please correct me. I was just sharing my ideas here. Peace!
Quote from: good logic on January 12, 2013, 02:00:58 AM
Peace 357.
Again I agree with drfazl.
6:102″ Such is GOD your Lord, ( HE wants total submission from all HIS creatures, to HIM ALONE!) there is no god except HE ( HE has no partners, no wife/girlfriend, no son, no daughter etc?HE is Unique, everything else is HIS creation!) the Creator of all things. You shall serve/worship ( And follow/trust in) HIM ALONE. ( Do not rely on anyone else) HE is in control of all things.? ( Yesterday, today , tomorrow and forever!)
1. What we need to ask ourselves, or rather what we need to ask Allah to make us understand, is what surrender and submission actually means. This is crucial.
2. What does 'rely on' mean? We need to be sure about this. Do we trust in Allah by ignoring and avoiding his creation? Or do we rely on Allah and consciously accept 'his' blessings through the creations of this world?
3. Ok, no offense here, I'm just spitting out a thought I had: Let's not take this ayat to the extreme in that we totally disregard and disconnect from the actors of the world just because we don't rely on anything except Allah. It is like the sunnis who take the 'obey the messenger' as meaning to copy his actions in the toilet, his food preferences and all other irrelevant things. We misunderstand.
What we need to do is to realize that we can achieve NOTHING without Allah's leave. We cannot attribute our success in school to ourselves, we cannot attribute our relationship success to ourselves etc etc, because Allah gave us our brains and capacities for studying, out ability to learn reading. Allah gave us social competence so that we could get along in a relationship. EVERYTHING is thanks to Allah. But if I break a bone, then I will not be thankless to Allah by refusing the doctor who can set the bones in alignment so that the body then nicely can heal it as per Allah's system of life. Allah can act through doctors. What the doctors do to us, depends totally on what we as patients have to learn in life. What happens to us is between us and Allah. Our life and circumstances is OURS. We all have our own worlds and our job is to work our way back to Allah by increasing our understanding and vision of truth and reality.
So, actually I too agree with what dr fazl says, as a concept and idea, but I think we need to ponder how this idea should be expressed in practical life.
Peace dear friends!
