Author Topic: Need some help understanding...  (Read 1384 times)

Zhang

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Need some help understanding...
« on: October 21, 2012, 12:31:17 PM »
A favorite of the Ahmadiyya movement:

7:35

O children of Adam, if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.

Can anyone help me understand?  :o

Thanks!

mmkhan

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Re: Need some help understanding...
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2012, 01:44:57 PM »
Salaam Zhang,

I did not understand what is your question.

As per my knowledge Ahmadiyya says that Ghulam Ahmed Khadiyani was a Nabi [not a Rasool], then how can they relate this aayat which mentioned of Rasools [plural] and not Nabi?


May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path  :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51

youssef4342

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Re: Need some help understanding...
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2012, 02:12:20 PM »
I personally think that God sends messengers to people even currently, as warners/advisors etc. God sends messengers to communities 4:165.
to every community a guide 13:7. God also sends advisers/warners 25:51, though not to every city.

I believe that muhammed is the last prophet (book bearer), not the last messenger.
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"Fear not those who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear the one who can destroy both the soul and the body in hell." (Matthew 10:28)

Zhang

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Re: Need some help understanding...
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2012, 02:42:00 PM »
Interesting youssef, you take a more Baha'i approach :)

Brother mmKhan, I have heard it used to defend the position that someone would come after the Prophet but they wouldn't be a prophet per-say. I don't know, I just don't know lol.

Anywho... does this mean that messengers will continue to come? Ahmad? Baha'ullah? Dare I say...Joseph Smith?

I really want clarification on that issue. Thanks!

mmkhan

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Re: Need some help understanding...
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2012, 02:52:46 PM »
Brother mmKhan, I have heard it used to defend the position that someone would come after the Prophet but they wouldn't be a prophet per-say. I don't know, I just don't know lol.

Anywho... does this mean that messengers will continue to come? Ahmad? Baha'ullah? Dare I say...Joseph Smith?

I really want clarification on that issue. Thanks!
Peace Zhang,

Please take a look at this link, it may help you inshaAllah.


May Allah guide us to His only path  :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51

youssef4342

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Re: Need some help understanding...
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2012, 03:28:14 PM »
Interesting youssef, you take a more Baha'i approach :)

Brother mmKhan, I have heard it used to defend the position that someone would come after the Prophet but they wouldn't be a prophet per-say. I don't know, I just don't know lol.

Anywho... does this mean that messengers will continue to come? Ahmad? Baha'ullah? Dare I say...Joseph Smith?

I really want clarification on that issue. Thanks!


I personally don't belief new prophets like baha'ullah/joseph smith etc.


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"Fear not those who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear the one who can destroy both the soul and the body in hell." (Matthew 10:28)

Zhang

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Re: Need some help understanding...
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2012, 05:19:53 PM »
Still confused brother Khan, are we all messengers?

GODsubmitter

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Re: Need some help understanding...
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2012, 08:17:19 PM »
A messenger sent by God MUST bring solid proof, and a sign, objectively examinable by all!
(there are examples in the Qur'an, aren't there?)
God has no Religion!

God is running everything.

Peace begins with me.

mmkhan

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Re: Need some help understanding...
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2012, 10:39:13 PM »
Still confused brother Khan, are we all messengers?
Nope! :nope: I am not confused bro, but I think you did not understand the link I gave you.

Red: I don't know.

Rasool simply means one who is sent, without a message, there is no Rasool.

12:50 وَ قَالَ الۡمَلِکُ ائۡتُوۡنِیۡ بِہٖ ۚ فَلَمَّا جَآءَہُ الرَّسُوۡلُ قَالَ ارۡجِعۡ اِلٰی رَبِّکَ فَسۡـَٔلۡہُ مَا بَالُ النِّسۡوَۃِ الّٰتِیۡ قَطَّعۡنَ اَیۡدِیَہُنَّ ؕ اِنَّ رَبِّیۡ بِکَیۡدِہِنَّ عَلِیۡمٌ
12:50 And the king said, "Bring him to me." But when the messenger came to him, said, "Return to your master and ask him what is the case of the women who cut their hands. Indeed, my Lord is Knowing of their plan."

Here alRasool is used, this alRasool was sent by the king not from Allah, still he was called alRasool in 12:50. AL refers to availability of that Rasool, you can look it by clicking here in detail.

Now, if you take a look again at that link, inshaAllah, you will understand there might be more than 2 Rasool available. Please do not rush, try to understand carefully, then decide whether to accept it or not.


May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path  :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51

mirjamnur

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Re: Need some help understanding...
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2012, 02:47:00 AM »
Salam mmkhan

i see and understand also more- like always  :)
thanks

so everybody can be a messenger. but a messenger from Allah must bring a sign? As GODsubmitter quoted?? Can  we found this condition is in the Quran? i don't think so.

007:035
"O ye Children of Adam! whenever there come to you messengers from among you, rehearsing My verses (Arabic: ayati) to you, those who are righteous and mend (their lives), on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve" here yes
 
guidance from Allah continues 

002:038
“We said: Go down / forth, all of you, from hence; but verily there comes to you from Me a guidance; and whosoever follows My guidance, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve”
 
020:123
“He said: Go down hence, both of you, one of you an enemy to the other. But when there comes to you from Me a guidance, then whosoever follows My guidance, he will not go astray nor come to grief”
 
 039:071
“And those who disbelieve are driven unto hell in troops till, when they reach it and the gates of them are opened, and the warders of them will say to them: Came there not to you messengers of your own, reciting to you the revelations of your Lord and warning you of the meeting of this your Day? they say: Yes, verily. But the word of doom of disbelievers is fulfilled”
 006:048
“We send the messengers only to give good news and to warn: so those who believe and mend (their lives), upon them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve”

 This can also be noted with respect to Prophet Noah (pbuh) who must have had support as there is a reference to a plurality of messengers.
 
026.105
“The people of Noah rejected the messengers”
 
also:
 
025:037
“And the people of Noah, when they rejected the messengers, We drowned them and We made them as a Sign for mankind and We have prepared for (all) wrong-doers a grievous Penalty”
 
Please also note the plurality in the following verses:
 
026.123
“The Ad (people) rejected the messengers”
 
026.141
“The Thamud (people) rejected the messengers”
 
026.160
“The people of Lut rejected the messengers
 
026.176
"The Companions of the Wood rejected the messengers"
 
It is clear that there seems to be more than one 'messenger' working in tandem and as an aid to the 'central figure' delivering the message of God to these communities. This is further seen in the plurality of messengers in Surah (Chapter) Yasin when two messengers were sent and were then strengthened with a third (36:14)
 
It appears from these verses that anyone who assists in delivering the message or acts as a henchman along with the appointed messengers, is also referred to as a ‘Messenger’
 
 :peace: :)