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New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?

Started by Wakas, October 07, 2012, 07:24:11 AM

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Mazhar

Quote from: Wakas on October 09, 2012, 10:28:04 AM
Dear Mazhar,

Perhaps your style of reply works with others, but it is not working with me. Let us recap on the points you have avoided so far:

1) Can you provide evidence that dreams are only possible with rapid eye movement (REM) sleep?

2) Can you provide evidence that the rapid eye movement is due to the sleeper using their eyes to "see" in their dream?

3) Does your theory for when the verb is and is not "real terms" hold for ALL its occurrences?

4) Does your theory only apply to this verb or others also? If so, can you elaborate.

What are the two objects in 37:102?

You claim... to show him "the biggest sign" which you have not identified/elaborated - care to explain?

Salamun alaika,

Sorry brother, whenever you wish to be evasive and turn away from the main subject such posts I quite often get. All above has since been replied.
[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

Ayisha

Quote from: Mazhar on October 09, 2012, 10:54:01 AM
Superlative is never in comparison to one. It is only about the Masjid, qualified as the one located at the highest altitutde. It can be beyond the frontiers of the Universe.

Or farthest away, whose precincts God blessed.

The literal meaning on openburhan is

Praise/glory (to) who went/moved/traveled/departed by night with/by His worshipper/slave at night/nightly from the Mosque the Respected/Sacred to the Mosque the Farthest/Remotest/Most Distant which We blessed around/surrounding it, to show him/make him understand from Our verses/signs/evidences, that He is the hearing/listening, the seeing/knowing/understanding .

The next discusses Moses, so it could be Moses, and it could be from one place of worship to another, none of which may be Mecca or even Al Aqsa in Jerusalem, but that in Jerusalem is supposed to be the one 'whose precincts We did bless'.

Question is still masjid al haram, the starting point, and who was the messenger.

???
In the name of God, The Compassionate, The Merciful.
Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe,
The Compassionate, The Merciful,
Sovereign of the Day of Judgement!
You alone we worship, and to You alone we turn for help.
Guide us to the straight path,
The path of those You have favoured,
Not of those who have incurred Your wrath,
Nor of those who have gone astray.

Mazhar

Salamun alaiki, Ayisha

We noticed that the object of making the Allegiant servant tranvel towards the Highest Altitude Mosque was:

The purpose of ascending him towards the Extreme Distant Altitude Mosque was that We might show him [Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam] visually the biggest sign from the Miscellany of Our Demonstrative Signs-Physical realm.

The text of Qur'aan is succinct, expressed with brevity and clarity, with no wasted words. The object of Verb was elided since its inclusion would amount wasting a word. The prepositional phrase makes it evident for all those who know the basics of Arabic and follow the principles of translating a foregin text to some target language by respecting the mannerism and delicacies of original language.

However, Qur'aan leaves not the dropped words at the wish of reader and translators to put therein whatever he likes. All important drops find mention at others places that relate to important episodes. What was to be shown to him, he must have seen that on arrival at destination. What he saw:

لَقَدْ رَأَى مِنْ آيَاتِ رَبِّهِ الْكُبْرَى

This is a certain fact that he-Muhammad [Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam] did observe the Greatest Sign amongst the Physical Realm of his Sustainer Lord. [53:18]

[Wakas might benefit from this] رَأَى Verb: Perfect; Third person; singular; masculine; Subject pronoun hidden which refers back to Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam,  مصدر-رَوْيَةٌ Verbal noun. This Verb needs one Object. الْكُبْرَى is its Object, which is  the Greatest Sign amongst the Physical Realm of his Sustainer Lord.  Though the learned Grammarians had convincingly taught us that the one Object of Verb  لِنُرِيَهُ   is elided, Allah the Exalted has specifically mentioned it leaving no room for the conjecturer to spread stories about it.

مِنْ آيَاتِ رَبِّهِ These words comprise three phrases; a Prepositional Phrase and two Possessive Phrases. These phrases with First Person Sovereign Pronoun will be مِنْ آيَاتِنَا  as in 17:1.

"Updates" sometime later, InshaAllah.
[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

Ayisha

Quote from: Mazhar on October 09, 2012, 11:27:38 AM
Salamun alaiki, Ayisha

We noticed that the object of making the Allegiant servant tranvel towards the Highest Altitude Mosque was:

The purpose of ascending him towards the Extreme Distant Altitude Mosque was that We might show him [Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam] visually the biggest sign from the Miscellany of Our Demonstrative Signs-Physical realm.

The text of Qur'aan is succinct, expressed with brevity and clarity, with no wasted words. The object of Verb was elided since its inclusion would amount wasting a word. The prepositional phrase makes it evident for all those who know the basics of Arabic and follow the principles of translating a foregin text to some target language by respecting the mannerism and delicacies of original language.

However, Qur'aan leaves not the dropped words at the wish of reader and translators to put therein whatever he likes. All important drops find mention at others places that relate to important episodes. What was to be shown to him, he must have seen that on arrival at destination. What he saw:

لَقَدْ رَأَى مِنْ آيَاتِ رَبِّهِ الْكُبْرَى

This is a certain fact that he-Muhammad [Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam] did observe the Greatest Sign amongst the Physical Realm of his Sustainer Lord. [53:18]

[Wakas might benefit from this] رَأَى Verb: Perfect; Third person; singular; masculine; Subject pronoun hidden which refers back to Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam,  مصدر-رَوْيَةٌ Verbal noun. This Verb needs one Object. الْكُبْرَى is its Object, which is  the Greatest Sign amongst the Physical Realm of his Sustainer Lord.  Though the learned Grammarians had convincingly taught us that the one Object of Verb  لِنُرِيَهُ   is elided, Allah the Exalted has specifically mentioned it leaving no room for the conjecturer to spread stories about it.

مِنْ آيَاتِ رَبِّهِ These words comprise three phrases; a Prepositional Phrase and two Possessive Phrases. These phrases with First Person Sovereign Pronoun will be مِنْ آيَاتِنَا  as in 17:1.

"Updates" sometime later, InshaAllah.

Allah doesn't waste words, but you do add them in. Muhammed is not mentioned in 53.18 either.

The physical realm also implies it's not up in the heavens all this took place.

:peace:
In the name of God, The Compassionate, The Merciful.
Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe,
The Compassionate, The Merciful,
Sovereign of the Day of Judgement!
You alone we worship, and to You alone we turn for help.
Guide us to the straight path,
The path of those You have favoured,
Not of those who have incurred Your wrath,
Nor of those who have gone astray.

kgwithnob

Quote from: Mazhar on October 08, 2012, 12:06:24 PM..."so that We might make him see with eyes"...
The red highlight above is from me.

1st: How do you interpret the following verses?

12:4
,
إِذْ قَالَ يُوسُفُ لِأَبِيهِ يَا أَبَتِ إِنِّي رَأَيْتُ أَحَدَ عَشَرَ كَوْكَبًا وَالشَّمْسَ وَالْقَمَرَ رَأَيْتُهُمْ لِي سَاجِدِينَ

12:5,
قَالَ يَا بُنَيَّ لَا تَقْصُصْ رُؤْيَاكَ عَلَىٰ إِخْوَتِكَ فَيَكِيدُوا لَكَ كَيْدًا ۖ إِنَّ الشَّيْطَانَ لِلْإِنسَانِ عَدُوٌّ مُّبِينٌ


12:36,
وَدَخَلَ مَعَهُ السِّجْنَ فَتَيَانِ ۖ قَالَ أَحَدُهُمَا إِنِّي أَرَانِي أَعْصِرُ خَمْرًا ۖ وَقَالَ الْآخَرُ إِنِّي أَرَانِي أَحْمِلُ فَوْقَ رَأْسِي خُبْزًا تَأْكُلُ الطَّيْرُ مِنْهُ ۖ نَبِّئْنَا بِتَأْوِيلِهِ ۖ إِنَّا نَرَاكَ مِنَ الْمُحْسِنِينَ


12:43,
وَقَالَ الْمَلِكُ إِنِّي أَرَىٰ سَبْعَ بَقَرَاتٍ سِمَانٍ يَأْكُلُهُنَّ سَبْعٌ عِجَافٌ وَسَبْعَ سُنبُلَاتٍ خُضْرٍ وَأُخَرَ يَابِسَاتٍ ۖ يَا أَيُّهَا الْمَلَأُ أَفْتُونِي فِي رُؤْيَايَ إِن كُنتُمْ لِلرُّؤْيَا تَعْبُرُونَ

12:44,
قَالُوا أَضْغَاثُ أَحْلَامٍ ۖ وَمَا نَحْنُ بِتَأْوِيلِ الْأَحْلَامِ بِعَالِمِينَ

2nd: The words altitude, ascend, night,... all can be used relative to the Earth, they are irrelevant when getting far from the planet Earth.

3rd: The whole discussion seems to be of the realm of "MUTASHABIHAAT", but not of the "MUHKAMAAT", and according to the verse 3:7 the interpretation of it lies with GOD(SWT) alone. One can delve into these kin of discussions till the end of the world and no one can come to any certainty regarding their real meanings, except getting farther and farther away from the truth and creating more confusion.

3:7,
هُوَ الَّذِي أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُّحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ ۖ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاءَ تَأْوِيلِهِ ۗ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلَّا اللَّهُ ۗ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا ۗ وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّا أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ     

Peace,
Khalil


Mazhar

QuoteAllah doesn't waste words, but you do add them in. Muhammed is not mentioned in 53.18 either.

Salamun alaiki,

You are not reading English text that you could see the subject of verb written seperately. The Subject, third person, singular masculine is inherent in the Arabic Verb.
[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

Ayisha

Quote from: Mazhar on October 09, 2012, 12:19:59 PM


Salamun alaiki,

You are not reading English text that you could see the subject of verb written seperately. The Subject, third person, singular masculine is inherent in the Arabic Verb.

So how do you know the Subject, third person, singular masculine is Muhammed? You are assuming it is.  :peace:
In the name of God, The Compassionate, The Merciful.
Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe,
The Compassionate, The Merciful,
Sovereign of the Day of Judgement!
You alone we worship, and to You alone we turn for help.
Guide us to the straight path,
The path of those You have favoured,
Not of those who have incurred Your wrath,
Nor of those who have gone astray.

Mazhar

Quote from: Ayisha on October 09, 2012, 12:31:35 PM
So how do you know the Subject, third person, singular masculine is Muhammed? You are assuming it is.  :peace:

Fine question. You will agree that in English a third person masculine pronoun refers to a man who is identified earlier. Same is in Arabic. Read the episode, in Arabic every word is connected and is not in isolation.

This is to confirm that Guiding Lord [Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam] of you people did not become  unmindful of his surroundings feeling bewildered or lost in the vastness. Moreover, nor he distracted. [53:02]
Mind it that neither he is narrating this episode [otherwise boggling/baffling for human mind] emanating in vacuum/ empty thoughts and wishful conjecture. [53:03]
[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

Ayisha

Quote from: Mazhar on October 09, 2012, 02:56:58 PM
Fine question. You will agree that in English a third person masculine pronoun refers to a man who is identified earlier. Same is in Arabic. Read the episode, in Arabic every word is connected and is not in isolation.

This is to confirm that Guiding Lord [Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam] of you people did not become  unmindful of his surroundings feeling bewildered or lost in the vastness. Moreover, nor he distracted. [53:02]
Mind it that neither he is narrating this episode [otherwise boggling/baffling for human mind] emanating in vacuum/ empty thoughts and wishful conjecture. [53:03]

I have double checked to see if we are talking about the same verse and we are. There is no 'Guiding Lord' and no Muhammed in there, again you are assuming.

And the only Guiding Lord is ALLAH!  :brickwall:
In the name of God, The Compassionate, The Merciful.
Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe,
The Compassionate, The Merciful,
Sovereign of the Day of Judgement!
You alone we worship, and to You alone we turn for help.
Guide us to the straight path,
The path of those You have favoured,
Not of those who have incurred Your wrath,
Nor of those who have gone astray.

Bender

Quote from: Mazhar on October 09, 2012, 02:56:58 PM
Fine question. You will agree that in English a third person masculine pronoun refers to a man who is identified earlier. Same is in Arabic. Read the episode, in Arabic every word is connected and is not in isolation.

This is to confirm that Guiding Lord [Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam] of you people did not become  unmindful of his surroundings feeling bewildered or lost in the vastness. Moreover, nor he distracted. [53:02]
Mind it that neither he is narrating this episode [otherwise boggling/baffling for human mind] emanating in vacuum/ empty thoughts and wishful conjecture. [53:03]

Salaam,

you are far away  :&
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen