New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?

[Mazhar]

There were so many contradiction in the notion of physical journey. The notion cannot sit down in the heart of critical minded people. If it denote a physical journey why at nihgt? Then will this notion not contradict verse 17:93.

We are not discussing whether physical journey seems possible to someone or not according to one's present level of knowledge, but are discussing what is stated in the Arabic text.

One should also keep critically checking since it might have become atilted.

[Wakas]

salaam mazhar,

Thanks for answering questions 5 & 6. If you have time, you can try 1-4 also.

What are the two objects in 37:102?


So readers can weight up the information, you are saying:

God took His servant and went on a physical journey with him, on an unidentified object (UFO) to somewhere in space/heaven/sky, to show him "the biggest sign" which you have not identified/elaborated.


Actually, I just thought of something, if it were using physical eyes, then at night, one's vision would be much poorer, so I assume you'd have to assume that whatever he was shown was lit up somehow or something else.


In any case, readers can weigh up your rendition and answer compared to what I wrote in the article:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html

[Ayisha]

Salamun alaiki,

Strictly adhering to the accepted principles of translating a text, and rules of Arabic grammar-morphology and syntax laid by learned Grammarians, let me try.

Allah the Exalted the Infinitely Glorious, Whose approval is the focus of all effort, is the One Who arranged the travel along with His sincere Allegiant-Muhammad [Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam] on a journey during some part of night from within Al Masjid al Haram-the Sacred Mosque around Ka'aba in Mecca, towards the Extreme Distant Altitude Mosque.
That Mosque is the One whose surroundings We have perpetuated and blessed.
The purpose of ascending him [Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam] in the direction towards the Extreme Distant Altitude Mosque was that We might show him visually the biggest sign from the Miscellany of Our Demonstrative Signs-Physical realm.
This is a fact that He the Exalted  is the One Who is eternally the Hearer [of what is said, at whatever frequency] and is of Vision [everything/act is in His focus]. [17:01]

أَسْرَى is a transitive Verb. It needs an Object. It is elided-not mentioned. What was that object used to carry him, it is not yet known-UFO.

So God took Muhammed from Mecca to "Extreme Distant Altitude Mosque"

Have I lost the plot here?

The verse says Al Aqsa, whatever that means your translation is not saying that unless you refer to that as Extreme Distant Altitude Mosque, altitude is height so wherever this is by your translation is somewhere high in altitude.

So irrelevant as to whether it was physical, in your translation where is this Extreme Distant Altitude Mosque?

[Mazhar]

So God took Muhammed from Mecca to "Extreme Distant Altitude Mosque"

Have I lost the plot here?

The verse says Al Aqsa, whatever that means your translation is not saying that unless you refer to that as Extreme Distant Altitude Mosque, altitude is height so wherever this is by your translation is somewhere high in altitude.

So irrelevant as to whether it was physical, in your translation where is this Extreme Distant Altitude Mosque?

Salamun alaiki,

No fault of yours. Even some scholars do not care what the word is. It is not the name of some Mosque. It is description with Elative Noun.

الْمَسْجِدِ الأَقْصَا  Adjectival Phrase: Location Noun: Definite; singular; Masculine; genitive. It is modified by الأَقْصَا which is the masculine Superlative noun. When prefixed with definite article, it is used as Superlative, whereby it must be in agreement in gender and number between it and that which it describes. Here, it is used as [(صِفَة)] adjectival portrayal  of  "The Mosque". One will find in almost all the translations that it is treated as a Superlative signifying its meanings as "the Remote; the Far distant; the Farthest; the Most distant; Remotest". This Superlative Noun is made from Root "ق ص و".

The basic perception infolded in the Root, in the words of Ibne Faris [died-1005] is:

يدلُّ على بُعدٍ و إِبعاد
That, it leads to the perception of far distance and deportation to far away, utmost limit. Lane's Lexicon signified the perception of proceeding to extremities; with reference to drinking water it conveys meaning of drinking in the manner of exhausting the last drop, again reflecting extremity in any action. He emphasized its meanings as reaching and attaining the utmost by referring to various words made from it.
The fact of reaching or attaining the utmost has the built in perception of elevation and altitude. As mentioned earlier also, the Grand Qur'aan, for itself is the best Lexicon. It exposes the perception and meanings of most of its words in a picturesque manner by relationships and contrasts. The basic perception and meanings of the Root are unfolded at the very first place of its occurrence:

إِذْ أَنتُم بِالْعُدْوَةِ الدُّنْيَا وَهُم بِالْعُدْوَةِ الْقُصْوَى وَالرَّكْبُ أَسْفَلَ مِنكُمْ when/that day you people were on the lower level corner, and they/the approaching army of infidels of Mecca were on far farther highest altitude corner, while the Merchant Caravan was relatively at lower level ground than you people. [Refer 8:42]

[Mazhar]

salaam mazhar,

Thanks for answering questions 5 & 6. If you have time, you can try 1-4 also.

Pl see Reply #16

[Mazhar]

So readers can weight up the information, you are saying:

God took His servant and went on a physical journey with him, on an unidentified object (UFO) to somewhere in space/heaven/sky, to show him "the biggest sign" which you have not identified/elaborated.

Salamun alaika,

Sorry, I am not saying anything. I only translated the Arabic text adhering to basic and accepted rules of translation.

Salamun alaiki,

Strictly adhering to the accepted principles of translating a text, and rules of Arabic grammar-morphology and syntax laid by learned Grammarians, let me try.

Allah the Exalted the Infinitely Glorious, Whose approval is the focus of all effort, is the One Who arranged the travel along with His sincere Allegiant-Muhammad [Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam] on a journey during some part of night from within Al Masjid al Haram-the Sacred Mosque around Ka'aba in Mecca, towards the Extreme Distant Altitude Mosque.
That Mosque is the One whose surroundings We have perpetuated and blessed.
The purpose of ascending him [Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam] in the direction towards the Extreme Distant Altitude Mosque was that We might show him visually the biggest sign from the Miscellany of Our Demonstrative Signs-Physical realm.
This is a fact that He the Exalted  is the One Who is eternally the Hearer [of what is said, at whatever frequency] and is of Vision [everything/act is in His focus]. [17:01]

أَسْرَى is a transitive Verb. It needs an Object. It is elided-not mentioned. What was that object used to carry him, it is not yet known-UFO.

Wakas translates 17:1 in the article

17:1 Glory be to the One who took with/by His servant (at) night from al maSJD al haram ila/to al maSJD al aqsa which We have blessed around* it that We may show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Listener, the Seer.

[Mazhar]

Actually, I just thought of something, if it were using physical eyes, then at night, one's vision would be much poorer, so I assume you'd have to assume that whatever he was shown was lit up somehow or something else.

Negative style of thinking. Did astronauts carry lighting system, torches on the Moon?

[Wakas]

Dear Mazhar,

Perhaps your style of reply works with others, but it is not working with me. Let us recap on the points you have avoided so far:

1) Can you provide evidence that dreams are only possible with rapid eye movement (REM) sleep?

2) Can you provide evidence that the rapid eye movement is due to the sleeper using their eyes to "see" in their dream?

3) Does your theory for when the verb is and is not "real terms" hold for ALL its occurrences?

4) Does your theory only apply to this verb or others also? If so, can you elaborate.

What are the two objects in 37:102?

You claim... to show him "the biggest sign" which you have not identified/elaborated - care to explain?

[Ayisha]

Salamun alaiki,

No fault of yours. Even some scholars do not care what the word is. It is not the name of some Mosque. It is description with Elative Noun.

الْمَسْجِدِ الأَقْصَا  Adjectival Phrase: Location Noun: Definite; singular; Masculine; genitive. It is modified by الأَقْصَا which is the masculine Superlative noun. When prefixed with definite article, it is used as Superlative, whereby it must be in agreement in gender and number between it and that which it describes. Here, it is used as [(صِفَة)] adjectival portrayal  of  "The Mosque". One will find in almost all the translations that it is treated as a Superlative signifying its meanings as "the Remote; the Far distant; the Farthest; the Most distant; Remotest". This Superlative Noun is made from Root "ق ص و".

The basic perception infolded in the Root, in the words of Ibne Faris [died-1005] is:

يدلُّ على بُعدٍ و إِبعاد
That, it leads to the perception of far distance and deportation to far away, utmost limit. Lane's Lexicon signified the perception of proceeding to extremities; with reference to drinking water it conveys meaning of drinking in the manner of exhausting the last drop, again reflecting extremity in any action. He emphasized its meanings as reaching and attaining the utmost by referring to various words made from it.
The fact of reaching or attaining the utmost has the built in perception of elevation and altitude. As mentioned earlier also, the Grand Qur'aan, for itself is the best Lexicon. It exposes the perception and meanings of most of its words in a picturesque manner by relationships and contrasts. The basic perception and meanings of the Root are unfolded at the very first place of its occurrence:

إِذْ أَنتُم بِالْعُدْوَةِ الدُّنْيَا وَهُم بِالْعُدْوَةِ الْقُصْوَى وَالرَّكْبُ أَسْفَلَ مِنكُمْ when/that day you people were on the lower level corner, and they/the approaching army of infidels of Mecca were on far farther highest altitude corner, while the Merchant Caravan was relatively at lower level ground than you people. [Refer 8:42]

So going by that this place whoever was taken was on a higher ground, like  a mountain or hill, higher in altitude than Mecca? Or somewhere even higher, highest altitude as in up into space/heaven?

[Mazhar]

So going by that this place whoever was taken was on a higher ground, like  a mountain or hill, higher in altitude than Mecca? Or somewhere even higher, highest altitude as in up into space/heaven?

Superlative is never in comparison to one. It is only about the Masjid, qualified as the one located at the highest altitutde. It can be beyond the frontiers of the Universe.