Author Topic: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?  (Read 64771 times)

Wakas

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New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
« on: October 07, 2012, 04:24:11 AM »
peace all,

After a long delay, I have finally completed the 3rd part in my study of sujud series:

What is the meaning of al masjid al haram according to The Quran?

Click: www.mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html

It is quite long and technical at times, but IF my findings are correct, then this would be a huge breakthrough in understanding of Quran. Take your time reading it.

As always, feedback welcome, especially corrections.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

good logic

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Re: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2012, 06:26:55 AM »
Peace Wakas.

First let me congratulate you on your big effort to tackle one of the most difficult area in Qoran.

Thank you for facilitating the study of " AMAH" to users of this forum.

I shall look forward to studying your work in the coming days.

Peace.
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38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
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Mazhar

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Re: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2012, 07:32:41 AM »
Salamun alaika,

Quote
The use of "bi" and "ila" in 17:1 suggest God took with/by His servant from A to B. Since we have ruled out a physical journey, this only leaves a spiritual journey and/or vision/dream or some other understanding. The use of "night" may indicate during sleep, i.e. a dream/vision.

Strange!! Red part and still concluding that physical journey should be struck out. Arent they self contradictory? Such assertion gives the perception as if Allah the Exalted picked up His Allegiant Servant while asleep and took him along from A to B. And reaching at B, He the Exalted awakened him to see with eyes something.

Allah the Exalted does not sleep. It is He the Exalted Who is taking and making His Servant travelling departing from A towards the destination B. Both the prepositions rule out the possibility of "travel" while asleep. Please cross check words about "Asraa". The point will become clear that it denotes only physical journeying not roaming in sleep.

Wakas

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Re: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2012, 02:12:31 PM »
salaam mazhar,

As is often the case, I do not follow what you are saying, but I did notice you provided no actual evidence. Please try again.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Mazhar

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Re: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2012, 04:01:35 PM »
salaam mazhar,

As is often the case, I do not follow what you are saying, but I did notice you provided no actual evidence. Please try again.

Salam,

I think I said something in simple words.
You said "The use of "bi" and "ila" in 17:1 suggest God took with/by His servant from A to B.".
Allah the Exalted has taken away a person who is His Servant from his presence location A to another location B.

You further say the man did not go physically.

Do you mean that Servant was picked up while asleep at his location A and transported to location B where he was still and remained assleep?

Ayisha

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Re: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2012, 05:22:52 PM »

Do you mean that Servant was picked up while asleep at his location A and transported to location B where he was still and remained assleep?

That would still count as physically even if he was asleep.
 ???
In the name of God, The Compassionate, The Merciful.
Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe,
The Compassionate, The Merciful,
Sovereign of the Day of Judgement!
You alone we worship, and to You alone we turn for help.
Guide us to the straight path,
The path of those You have favoured,
Not of those who have incurred Your wrath,
Nor of those who have gone astray.

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Re: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2012, 10:57:50 PM »
Salam,

I think I said something in simple words.
You said "The use of "bi" and "ila" in 17:1 suggest God took with/by His servant from A to B.".
Allah the Exalted has taken away a person who is His Servant from his presence location A to another location B.

You further say the man did not go physically.

Do you mean that Servant was picked up while asleep at his location A and transported to location B where he was still and remained assleep?

He could be right , it may not be a physical journey.

The sura was called Bani Israil and now they have changed it to Al Isra-i wonder why?!

The Sura is about the Children of Israil, but starts with the actions of Moses- i would say.

Quote
17:1
Glorified who set forth His slave by loss of power and prosperity from submitting to haram to submitting in extreme distance of it whereof we blessed his strength to show him of Our Signs He the All-Hearer the All-Seer.


17,2
And We gave Moses the Book, and made it a Guide to the Children of Israel, (commanding): "Take not other than Me as Disposer of (your) affairs."

17.3
O ye that are sprung from those whom We carried (in the Ark) with Noah! Verily he was a devotee most grateful.

17.4
And We gave (Clear) Warning to the Children of Israel in the Book, that twice would they do mischief on the earth and be elated with mighty arrogance (and twice would they be punished)

17.5
When the first of the warnings came to pass, We sent against you Our servants given to terrible warfare: They entered the very inmost parts of your homes; and it was a warning (completely) fulfilled.


It is all black and white- or is it just to me?

Moses story.

28:15.

1.   And he entered the city unexpectedly, without being noticed by the people. He found in it two men who were fighting, one was from his own race, and the other was from his enemy?s. So the one who was from his own race called on him for help against his enemy, whereby Moses punched him, killing him. He said: ?This is from the work of the devil; he is an enemy that clearly misleads.?
2.   He said: ?My Lord, I have wronged my soul, so forgive me.? He then forgave him, for He is the Forgiver, the Merciful.

 :peace:

Wakas

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Re: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2012, 03:40:04 AM »
salaam Mazhar,


Do you mean that Servant was picked up while asleep at his location A and transported to location B where he was still and remained assleep?

Firstly, have you read the article? If you have, then you will have noted that I did not state nor imply the above. What you are saying would still be physical, as sister Ayisha pointed out.

Rather than discussing what I did not say, let's rather discuss what I actually said. This will be more beneficial.

Quotes from article:

Quote
Notably, in the same chapter, in 17:93, the messenger clearly implies he cannot ascend in the heaven/sky and is only a human. Not only does this rule out the physical journey/ascension theory, but implies if he were to ascend physically it would make him other than human which is the very opposite of Quran's message. Also see 6:35. Further, a physical journey has not been described using such terms in AQ elsewhere as far as I am aware, so we can safely rule out the physical journey option.

 
Quote
The use of "bi" and "ila" in 17:1 suggest God took with/by His servant from A to B. Since we have ruled out a physical journey, this only leaves a spiritual journey and/or vision/dream or some other understanding. The use of "night" may indicate during sleep, i.e. a dream/vision.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

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Re: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2012, 04:21:29 AM »
In my opinion he astral travelled in his sleep. The notion of it being a physical journey has never sit right with me. Whether it refers to muhammed or moses thats another point of discussion.

PEACE
A book is only as good as it?s reader. Once opened symbols present themselves for the reader to decipher. We learn and relearn new conceptual models to comprehend these symbols. A book is only a tool.

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Re: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2012, 04:38:11 AM »
In my opinion he astral travelled in his sleep. The notion of it being a physical journey has never sit right with me. Whether it refers to muhammed or moses thats another point of discussion.

PEACE

I was just about to say astral projection comes to mind for me too.  :peace:
In the name of God, The Compassionate, The Merciful.
Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe,
The Compassionate, The Merciful,
Sovereign of the Day of Judgement!
You alone we worship, and to You alone we turn for help.
Guide us to the straight path,
The path of those You have favoured,
Not of those who have incurred Your wrath,
Nor of those who have gone astray.