Author Topic: Methodology in Understanding Quran (1)  (Read 14010 times)

Wakas

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Re: Methodology in Understanding Quran (1)
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2012, 02:38:03 PM »
I understand the words fine and I haven't stated that it's impossible.

So you understand fine on the one hand, yet require a demonstration on the other hand. Contradiction.
It seems to me you wish to ask another question under the guise of not understanding something thus requiring a demo, even though you clearly admitted you understand fine.

If you haven't stated that it is impossible, thus, if you think it is possible, then please provide your evidence from Quran, in whatever manner you can fathom for providing such evidence.

If you are unwilling to move on without a demonstration of something you apparently understand fine, then simply state so. To keep the Q&A going I will provide one.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

abdalquran

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Re: Methodology in Understanding Quran (1)
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2012, 03:06:58 PM »
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So you understand fine on the one hand, yet require a demonstration on the other hand. Contradiction.

To an Aristotelian logician, yes. However, the world has moved on since the days of Ancient Greece. There are now different levels of understanding. CONCEPTUALLY, I understand what YOU mean by 'quranic evidence'. However, I would like to see it demonstrated.

I asked you before: does your work on 2/196 constitute Quranically evinced meanings? Yes or no. If it does, I would like to study it before I proffer my views.


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It seems to me you wish to ask another question under the guise of not understanding something thus requiring a demo, even though you clearly admitted you understand fine.

It can seem to you whatever you like, I asked you to show me what 'quranic evidence' looks like. The onus is on you to show me how it works....if you can.

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If you haven't stated that it is impossible, thus, if you think it is possible, then please provide your evidence from Quran, in whatever manner you can fathom for providing such evidence.

If you are unwilling to move on without a demonstration of something you apparently understand fine, then simply state so. To keep the Q&A going I will provide one.

I need to see what 'quranic evidence' looks like before I determine if my work is quranically evinced or not. If you can show me what that looks like, I will proceed. I am simply asking for demonstration of what YOU asked for. Show me an example of that so I can see how 'quranic' it is. Alternatively, tell me if your 2/196 thing is 'quranically evinced' or not so I can see for myself :)
Farouk A. Peru

abdalquran

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Re: Methodology in Understanding Quran (1)
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2012, 03:22:48 PM »
IF you believe your write up on 2/196 is 'quranically evinced', I'd like to ask about point one:

1) "And complete the hajj and the 3umra for God" - whatever hajj and 3umra are, they should be completed.
Later the verse states "...then a sawm/abstinence/fast three days during the hajj..." - clearly implying the hajj is a delimited/finite timed undertaking/event. Also see 22:28 "appointed days" and 9:3 "day of the greatest/peak hajj".


You claimed here that 'hajj is a delimited/finite timed undertaking/event'. Would you consider this 'quranically evinced' by quoting 22/28 and 9/3 ?
Farouk A. Peru

Wakas

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Re: Methodology in Understanding Quran (1)
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2012, 02:36:32 AM »
Since you seem to require a demo of what I mean, here is an example:

Let's say you think word X means "banana" and others think it means "orange" or "fruit" or something else, we can look to the occurrences of word X within the text (e.g. Quran) to determine what that text means by word X, or at the very least, gather information about word X to help us determine which meaning suits.

Occurrence 1:
As the table fell over the food on it landed on the ground, and the X rolled along the floor.

Occurrence 2:
I normally cut X in half then squeeze the juice to drink.

Occurrence 3:
The X hanging from the trees looked like radiant suns.


From the above we can determine some characteristics of X, e.g. it can roll, it can be cut in half and squeezed for juice, it can be likened to a radiant sun. We simply apply these to the word options, and see what fits best.

So, quite simply, from the occurrences of the word "hadiy" can you bring forth any evidence that backs your meaning of "the progression"? If you can, please provide it, if you cant, then simply state so, and move onto the next question.


My questions are not difficult, but answering them often is.

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Wakas

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Re: Methodology in Understanding Quran (1)
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2012, 02:38:23 AM »
I forgot to add, if you wish to ask me questions, you have your own thread, as we both agreed. Please do not change the agreed upon format midway.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

abdalquran

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Re: Methodology in Understanding Quran (1)
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2012, 04:56:11 AM »
You did not provide a QURANIC demonstration (neither 'validated' by nor even 'pertaining' to the Quran) but no matter, lets move on.

'hadiy' is related to the huda which I interpret as moving from location to location. The nujum are for us to be in 'yahtadoon' mode. (16/16). Therefore, I interpret this to be 'progressions' in our journey of establishing AMAH.
Farouk A. Peru

Wakas

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Re: Methodology in Understanding Quran (1)
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2012, 03:29:38 AM »
'hadiy' is related to the huda which I interpret as moving from location to location. The nujum are for us to be in 'yahtadoon' mode. (16/16). Therefore, I interpret this to be 'progressions' in our journey of establishing AMAH.

Thanks for actually bringing forth evidence. I consider it very poor and a tenuous link, but at least its something. Readers can of course make up their own minds.
As a side note, according to corpus.quran.com "yahtadoon" is verb form 8 reflexive meaning "guide themselves".

Now please move onto the next question:

Quote
Question: Can you confirm "raas" is indeed plural and provide evidence from Quran and/or Classical Arabic dictionary for your word choice?
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

abdalquran

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Re: Methodology in Understanding Quran (1)
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2012, 06:59:28 AM »
Thanks for actually bringing forth evidence. I consider it very poor and a tenuous link, but at least its something.

Oh thanks so much! This helps me measure my interpretation a lot.

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Readers can of course make up their own minds.


Oh are they allowed? I'd have thought they would be attacked if they agreed for following falsehood.

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As a side note, according to corpus.quran.com "yahtadoon" is verb form 8 reflexive meaning "guide themselves".

Maybe for those who uncritically accept this form stuff (and STILL claim the Quran is their furqan, lol) . I don't. Where's your Quranic proof for this by the way.

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Now please move onto the next question:
Question: Can you confirm "raas" is indeed plural and provide evidence from Quran and/or Classical Arabic dictionary for your word choice?

What was my word choice for this? It seems you cannot understand: I DID NOT MAKE A TRANSLATION. I am blogging my UNDERSTANDING of this aya. Do you understand the difference?

A translation would lock each Quranic word to a translated word for phrase. I did NOT do that. I am blogging my understanding of that verse. So as such, there is no word CHOICE.

Farouk A. Peru

Wakas

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Re: Methodology in Understanding Quran (1)
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2012, 07:22:21 AM »
Quote from: Farouk
What was my word choice for this?

You may have forgotten since it seems a while ago since I asked.
Perhaps readers should compare your responses to my questions with mine to yours. I answer every question in the very next reply on your thread. You on the other hand evade, stall and obfuscate........... and then reply.... maybe.


Let's try this again...

Quote from: Farouk
I am blogging my UNDERSTANDING of this aya.

Fine. You have an understanding of X, and opted to represent that understanding by choosing words, one of which was "thought" for "raas".

My question is very simple:
Quote
Can you confirm "raas" is indeed plural and provide evidence from Quran and/or Classical Arabic dictionary for your word choice?

If you have no evidence for this understanding (as represented by your words), simply state so for all to see.

Or will you opt to evade yet again?
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

abdalquran

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Re: Methodology in Understanding Quran (1)
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2012, 07:52:51 AM »
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You may have forgotten since it seems a while ago since I asked.
Perhaps readers should compare your responses to my questions with mine to yours. I answer every question in the very next reply on your thread. You on the other hand evade, stall and obfuscate........... and then reply.... maybe
.

Look , if you're not able to understand my technique, your questions are bound to be off the mark. You think in a one a dimensional cut and paste fashion then pretend as if your view is 'quranic' (not pertaining to, validated by) which is absolute nonsense. You don't examine context, themes, shifts in language or even pronoun moods. So yeah, when YOU have a problem with my approach, I take it as a good sign. My reading isn't meant for people who claim to reject hadith yet swallow what lexicographers tell them. 

Oh you answer every question eh? Where is your PROOF for that form 8 comment? Quranic proof please none of that orange fruit nonsense.

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Fine. You have an understanding of X, and opted to represent that understanding by choosing words, one of which was "thought" for "raas".

Good, further proof of your inability to understand. The word 'raas' means 'head'. However, the head is used metaphorically as well (like raas am waal) and so I chose to lift the metaphorical process projected by the word and apply it to my interpretation of the verse. It's not a WORD CHOICE. It's like in English we say 'lose one's head'.


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If you have no evidence for this understanding (as represented by your words), simply state so for all to see.

Or will you opt to evade yet again?
lol...I'll just call it 'quranic' cause it PERTAINS to the Quran  :rotfl:
Farouk A. Peru