Ahl al-kalam versus Imam Shafi

[Bigmo]

Bigmo you say there is no muttawatir hadith yet if you read arguments made by shafi/ahl kalam you will see they accepted certain ahadith, and some were under the clause of muttawatir. moreover no muttawatir hadith is debatable.  in terms of mainstream muslim practises they adopted them unlike many Quranist today

inevitably everyone and every community has their own interpretations.

A persons belief cannot be be purely known by the sources s/he accepts, as one can accept skewed interpretations or meanings and not to mention many may not even disclose their  true beliefs.

I have come across ahadith that are not contradictory to the Quran, that are agreeable to me. That doesn't make me a sunni nor a shia.

what we do is more important than a title given to us or those before us. nevertheless it's interesting to read through history. maybe we can learn a thing or two.

peace

There are no mutawattir hadiths.

What I meant is the Mutaziltes claimed that they will only accept Mutawattir hadith but there was no such hadith. So all people can do now is to see if a hadith agrees with the Quran or not. If you watched Aisha Musa's videos in youtube you can see she clearly shows how the Mutaziltes and Ahl Al-kalam are the same as today's Quranist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf-6OJg7krM&feature=related

Mutaziltes and Al Al-kalam and Quranist are the same thing. The term Mutaziltes and Ahl -Alkalam were made by their enemies.

Sunnis try to make a distinction since they don't want people to feel the Quranist were around before they were around.

[SarahY]

i've read her book.

ahl kalam did a physical prayer/salat unlike many Quranists today.

[Lena]

i've read her book.

ahl kalam did a physical prayer/salat unlike many Quranists today.

Salaam   Do you mean most Quranists don't follow the Quranic  commands to stand bow and prostrate?  Please explain further.
Thanks.

[Bigmo]

i've read her book.

ahl kalam did a physical prayer/salat unlike many Quranists today.

But many Quranist do. But in that lecture she did raise the issue of Al Shafi asking them that question about rituals and the other side understood that people by following the Quran alone will have different ways of practicing their rituals.

The 5 salat is not mutawattir hadith. It is a mutawattir practice but its origins are not known. Plus even if we assume that the first generations of Muslims practiced that way it does not mean its the only way. Remember even Sunni sources say that the prophet and his followers prayed twice a day in Mecca for years. In the end you can't make binding what the Quran hasn't.

I personally agrre about bowing and prostrating but this is different than the 5 salat. The story of the 5 salat in hadiths are unconvincing to me. Maybe early Muslims did and later authorities tried to preserve that by bringing the ascending to heaven hadith where it started with 50 and then down to 5. This seems more like an argument to defend that 5 is too cumbersome and so by saying it was intitially 50 people will shut up about the amount. In the end most Muslims are not praying because 5 salat can be cumbersome to those with busy schedules. The bowing and prostrating are stated in the Quran and the previous scriptures. But the 5 salat is not.

[SarahY]

Salam Lena/Bigmo

I can't speak for all or most Quranists however I can say that Quransit today have a range of interpretations of how they do or even define salat/ruku/sujud (bowing/prostrating). There are some that do not agree with the physical aspect of bowing/prostrating.

As far as I'm aware Bigmo claims mutazilites/ahl kalam are Quranist who have been given that identity however, Ahl kalam/mutazilites did a ritual prayer as common Muslim folk do now. Whether it was 5 or 2 is irrelevant to the point I was making.

[youssef4342]

i've read her book.
ahl kalam did a physical prayer/salat unlike many Quranists today.

please do share any cited views, as i never read the book, nor have sufficient finances nor time to read it

Here is my own understanding of Physical 3 daily salat

How to do salat from the Quran alone (video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TANyL4A2n0

[SarahY]

Youssef:

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599644.msg238742#msg238742

it's been a while since I read it, you can view other's views as well.

Enjoy

[youssef4342]

Appreciate it, Thank you very much!

[Indelwyn]

thanks for all the great links!

[SarahY]

No problem.

BTW Youssef, your link of how you do salat doesn't exist according to youtube. just letting you know.