Author Topic: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::  (Read 75813 times)

The_Chimp

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #160 on: May 22, 2013, 06:04:44 PM »
Salaamun alayka,

May I ask how you acknowledged this, because till today I have not seen a single person who has proofed this with only Quran verses.

Salaam,
Bender

There are many verses which provide proof. 3:144

Muhammad is not but a messenger. [Other] messengers have passed on before him. So if he was to die or be killed, would you turn back on your heels [to unbelief]? And he who turns back on his heels will never harm Allah at all; but Allah will reward the grateful.

Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.

kgwithnob

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #161 on: May 22, 2013, 06:06:47 PM »
Hi,

Not all names end in Tanween - non Arabic names such as Ibrahim do not.

I made a correction. Thanks for reminding me, and  :welcome:

Peace,
Khalil

huruf

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #162 on: May 23, 2013, 12:37:28 AM »
Salaamun alayki,

I do not understand why this discussion is so heated up. We are just discussing ideas.

Anyways imo 48:29 says "Mohammed is the messenger of Allah..."
first this is a statement, second the statement was there 1000 years ago and is still here at present time and will be in the future.
Does this Mohammed not die if it was a person? So if it dies then it can for sure not be the Mohammed of The Quran, because the Mohammed of 48:29 in The Quran is always in present time. Note also that it is written as MohammedUN, thus a not specified Mohammed.
it is written in the same way as "Allahu rabbu Al3alameena" only difference is that it is not Al-LahUN as Allah is always specified and present.
Anyways this is how Allah showed me.

Also I like to say that there is nothing to feel cheated about, we are just discussing.
And there is no ban Mohammed campain.
As I already told, I have no answers yet for the questions.
The only thing I know at the moment is that from my study and with what Allah showed me, Mohammed of 48:29 can never be a name of a person, probably it is something like a title.
That's all I know.
And I also do not agree with MmKhan that it was Musa.

Anyways lets try not to get in  :voodoo: mood  :) I think this is a interesting subject and at the end of the day we will all learn more inshaAllah.

Salaam,
Bender

Salaam, Bender,

Thanks for your politeness saying that the discussion is heated up instead of saying that I was being too sharp or worse. I heated it up because I saw it going nowhere. I was trying to get the thing out with forceps, not even so I got it, but you at least answered what you could answer. Thank you. It was a deliberate but
not an illwilled of hostile heating. I appreciate brother mmkhan and you.

I remember in one of the threads that brother mmkhan said that the Arabic word "ism" does nto mean name. I think, after thinking it over myself, that that assumption might have something to do with the difficulty for him to say straight what he has in mind, if he knows it. "Ism" might not be a 100% equivalent of "name" in English but certainly in a big proportion it is equivalent. He opposed name to attribute if I don't remember wrong. Well, may be that opposition might be made in English but not necessarily in Arabic, and if we think of it, any name is named after attributing something to the named. Persons are named when they are born, but that is just a usage. Usually many things and persons through history have been named after the name they earned, not the name they were given at birth or inception.

I thank those of you who have cleared the question about the tanwin in names. I sort of had an idea that that did not make a name into a non-name, but as I did not recall axactly the rule, I did not say anything. In fact, again, it all comes from separating atributes from names. Al 3adil is a name of God, but, like names should be, it is not a void name, it is a name full of significance. So, seen from the point of view of the faithful, what is the reason for Muhammadun not being a name besides beeing an attribute since in Arabic, Quranic Arabic, both things go hand in hand? Anybody respoding to that denomination would be Muhammadun and could be named Mhammadun. Which Muhammadun? Obviously the Muhammadun at hand for the purpose that is being dealt with.

You say_

Quote
Anyways imo 48:29 says "Mohammed is the messenger of Allah..."
first this is a statement, second the statement was there 1000 years ago and is still here at present time and will be in the future.
Does this Mohammed not die if it was a person? So if it dies then it can for sure not be the Mohammed of The Quran, because the Mohammed of 48:29 in The Quran is always in present time. Note also that it is written as MohammedUN, thus a not specified Mohammed.

I have very great doubts on that and not because I think that it cannot be applied to anybody any time if she or he fulfills de conditions, but because the fact that it might include other people does most certainly not exclude the person then and there who was existant when it was said or revealed for the Qur'an. In fact it occurred to me long time ago, that the khatam an-nabiyin, if taken as last prophet, what it would mean would be that for those who believe in that prophet, that khatam, they would not be needing any other prophet, that is, they would have reached adult age as believers and faithful and would themselves emancipate and be for themselves and for their community their prophets, that is a community of universal prophethood. That is one way which I thought could be interpreted, which in itself is full of meaning. Obviously for those who did no benefit from the prophethood of Muhammadun, there might be other prophets, I do not know, but I see it as possible.

But then, even assuming that as a verified fact, what I do not get is why the need of keeping all the prophets previous to the transmitter of the Qur'an, and then do away with the transmitter fo the Qur'an as if it was a blot o something to be ashamed of. There is something very wrong there, unless a good explanation is given. So please if there is such explanation, once more, I request it for the purpose of understanding the whole thing and if there is something to it. If there was ever a prophet, then the khatam annabiyin certifies it, it would ridiculous that somebody who does not existe does any certifying.

So, Bender, thanks for your answer and let us see if brother mmkhan can and will explain further or not.

Salaam

Scribbler

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #163 on: May 23, 2013, 03:47:36 AM »
Dear Bender,

In Arabic language, nearly all PERSONAL MASCULINE NOUNS end with ?THZAMMAH TANWIN?, which pronounces ?UN?. It is a rule of the language. This ending can change to other forms depending on the structure of the sentence, but the noun will still remain a noun. It does not change to anything else like where you guys out of ignorance think it is a ?CHARACTER?. See the verses below as examples.

BTW; the names in the verses below are all PROPER nouns.

26:106 إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ نُوحٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:124  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ هُودٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:142  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ صَـٰلِحٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:161  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ لُوطٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:177  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ شُعَيۡبٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ


Peace,
Khalil



This post literally destroys the position which brother mmkhan and bender hold.



Thanks for the verses, Khalil.




Peace.
Turn to Allah before you turn to ashes.

Bender

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #164 on: May 23, 2013, 04:26:35 AM »
Dear Bender,

In Arabic language, nearly all PERSONAL MASCULINE NOUNS end with ?THZAMMAH TANWIN?, which pronounces ?UN?. It is a rule of the language. This ending can change to other forms depending on the structure of the sentence, but the noun will still remain a noun. It does not change to anything else like where you guys out of ignorance think it is a ?CHARACTER?. See the verses below as examples.

BTW; the names in the verses below are all PROPER nouns.

26:106 إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ نُوحٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:124  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ هُودٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:142  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ صَـٰلِحٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:161  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ لُوطٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:177  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ شُعَيۡبٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ


Peace,
Khalil

Salaamun alayka,

Thank you for mentioning those verses and alhamdu to The One who  has showed me those ayaats long time ago  :hail

Brother if there is something which you can not comprehend it does not mean that I speak of ignorance.
Maybe I have have knowledge that has not reached you yet.
And even if I am wrong then it's not because of ignorance but because I am always in learning phase.
Allah never called Ibrahim ignorant when he searched for Him even when he was wrong. No Allah says Ibrahim was not of almushrikeen.

Anyways, maybe you can look again at one verse before every ayaat you mentioned.
I will give you the first one:
26:105  كَذَّبَتْ قَوْمُ نُوحٍ الْمُرْسَلِينَ
As you can see Almurasleena is plural. How is that possible? So who are those " الْمُرْسَلِينَ " when we know that only Nuh was sent.

Same goes for every ayaat you mentioned, inshaAllah it will be more clear for you.

Furthermore I want to state that you can study The Quran only in 1 way and that is with the help of Allah.
Grammar books and other sources besides Allah will only confuse you.

Salaam and may Allah increase our knowledge
Bender
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

Bender

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #165 on: May 23, 2013, 04:28:08 AM »
There are many verses which provide proof. 3:144

Muhammad is not but a messenger. [Other] messengers have passed on before him. So if he was to die or be killed, would you turn back on your heels [to unbelief]? And he who turns back on his heels will never harm Allah at all; but Allah will reward the grateful.

Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.

Salaamun alayka,

And what exactly does this proof?

Salaam,
Bender
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

Bender

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #166 on: May 23, 2013, 04:30:13 AM »

This post literally destroys the position which brother mmkhan and bender hold.



Thanks for the verses, Khalil.


Peace.

Salaamun alayki,

Ah I see, you see discussing the ayaats of The Quran as a competition.

Thanks anyway for your contribution.

Salaam,
Bender
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

Bender

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #167 on: May 23, 2013, 04:36:49 AM »
Hi,

Not all names end in Tanween - non Arabic names such as Ibrahim do not.

Salaamun alayka,

I can only find ayaats like this:
12:02 Inna anzalnahu quranan AAarabiyyan laAAallakum taAAqiloona
I never saw ayaats like this:
- Inna anzalnahu quranan AAarabiyyan illa ismu Ibrahim laAAallakum taAAqiloona

Salaam,
Bender
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

huruf

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #168 on: May 23, 2013, 05:20:19 AM »
What am I missing here? If there is a reason for the discussion I fail to see it.

Salaam

hawk99

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #169 on: May 23, 2013, 06:21:44 AM »
Peace Family,

According to the book, "A Reference Grammar of Modern Standard Arabic".
Muhammad is a proper arabic name, the nunation indicates the proper
name is derived from an adjective.  So to answer the question of the thread,
"Was Muhammed name of a Prophet?"  The answer would be yes.

Thanks mmkhan for this thread   :handshake:

   :peace:

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