Author Topic: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::  (Read 75947 times)

Man of Faith

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #150 on: May 22, 2013, 08:16:22 AM »
Peace Bender,

Why not call him Muhammad? Even if it is by codename or nickname. Well, brother, I am eager ears if you have a better option. Please do not get me wrong, I am no narrow-minded traditionalist and I try to be rational and draw logical conclusions. In fact I am interested about mmkhans research, but I am not quick to run to conclusions.

Give example?  Well, the Quran is narrated as if there is a person between the Believers and God. Who is it if not a prophet? You have the whole Quran as your example brother.

Okay. I misunderstood your intent. I have a prejudice that many people are here to nullify everything about traditional islam :)

At a final note brother Bender, interpreting the Quran can be tedious and I understand if the name Muhammad may be inaccurate, but so far Muhammad is the best answer for me.  I do not glorify him or anything.

God bless you
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Bender

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #151 on: May 22, 2013, 09:24:58 AM »
Peace Bender,

Why not call him Muhammad? Even if it is by codename or nickname.  Well, brother, I am eager ears if you have a better option. Please do not get me wrong, I am no narrow-minded traditionalist and I try to be rational and draw logical conclusions. In fact I am interested about mmkhans research, but I am not quick to run to conclusions.

Salaamun alayka,

GREEN:  What's wrong with "I don't know" if one does not know?

BLUE: Sorry I have nothing better at the moment, only equal assumptions.

RED: imo that's the correct approach  :handshake:

Quote
Give example?  Well, the Quran is narrated as if there is a person between the Believers and God. Who is it if not a prophet? You have the whole Quran as your example brother.

The question remains the same, can you give me an example  :)

Quote
Okay. I misunderstood your intent. I have a prejudice that many people are here to nullify everything about traditional islam :)
Sure there are people who do this. 


Quote
At a final note brother Bender, interpreting the Quran can be tedious and I understand if the name Muhammad may be inaccurate, but so far Muhammad is the best answer for me.  I do not glorify him or anything.

God bless you

Per my current knowledge I am 100% sure that Mohammed is not used as a name of a person in The Quran.
proof: translate the first 3 words of 48:29.

may Allah bless you 2
Bender
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

Man of Faith

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #152 on: May 22, 2013, 09:48:45 AM »
Peace Bender,

I respect your opinion and I will keep yours and mmkhans approach on my mind, but I am not excluding Muhammad at this time. For the sake of coherence I keep him in my reference. The prophet in Quran is called Muhammad by me for now.

I find it a bit silly to give an example. What about most of the context of Quran. You can sure find it yourself. Maybe I will give an example and description when I have the opportunity.

Anyway, like mmkhan was trying to say, God is what counts the most if not entirely. But I have a more open attitude, perhaps. Well, I am just a little bit better than I used to be :)

God bless you
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huruf

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #153 on: May 22, 2013, 10:45:29 AM »
So, please then, give a translation of 48.29


On the other hand, it is very logic if a messenger was to come whose name will be Ahmad, which means the most praiseworthy, that later on the fullfilment of 3isa's rediction be stressed by stating that indeed, the most preaisale is indeed praised, which is Muhammadun, one that was to be the most praisedworthy surpisingly turns out also to be praised.

So what is shocking about that and why so much mistery on the part of the "there is no messenger muhammad to come and give in plain words and without riddles what their notion is, because as yet I have not seen that they have given any explanation of anything that should clear anything at all. All we get is "that can't be.

No reason why that cannot be and no idea of what can be either. So we are left with a batallion of prophets whose ,essages are not guranteed and the one message which is guranteed, is forbidden to have a transmitter from God to the rest of the mortals, because it si a sin to speak of such a prophet. I find it too much of a joke. Not that I am shocked. I am not, I feel cheated, because of much ado about nothing and what looks like a big promise of some way the Qur'an was transmitted, but there is nothing, so according to that notion what we should believe, ignorant as we are, is that the Qur'an is there but forbidden to discuss or imagine how it came to be there. If that is not what is being said, then please be clearer, because I am starting to feel the whole thing as a practical joke. So people are lectured if they speak about Muhammad, but then they are asked to believe in what, in speontaneous generation? so it seems.

If those who put forward the ban Muhammad campaign cannot answer what they are asked, then I am out of this thread because it is a cheat.  I know that nobody is going to cry for that, for sure I am not, Huruf can leave any time she wants, but I want to say that: that nothing is being spoken clearly and all I have seen is a parade of offers which are not followed by any delivery. Bluff is called, isn't it.

Salaam

Salaam

mmkhan

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #154 on: May 22, 2013, 12:06:06 PM »
Peace Bender,

I respect your opinion and I will keep yours and mmkhans approach on my mind, but I am not excluding Muhammad at this time. For the sake of coherence I keep him in my reference. The prophet in Quran is called Muhammad by me for now.

I find it a bit silly to give an example. What about most of the context of Quran. You can sure find it yourself. Maybe I will give an example and description when I have the opportunity.

Anyway, like mmkhan was trying to say, God is what counts the most if not entirely. But I have a more open attitude, perhaps. Well, I am just a little bit better than I used to be :)

God bless you
Peace Man of Faith,

I was not responding to your posts because you said, you are out of it, but now I found you still continuously using my name, so I would like to clarify on the part I have highlighted in your quote above.

Please feel free to believe in Muhammad or whatever you want to make him, I cannot question it. Because that is you who is doing so and you are only responsible for that. Please remove from your mind that I am forcing anyone to believe in what I believe, NO! I am not doing that. But I am sharing my knowledge that Allah gave me. So that,

- Some may benefit from it.
- Some may discuss it further and bring in some more facts and discoveries from alQuraan and get to its conclusions.

This was only my intention. But its seems that people think I am getting some million bucks for making others convince on what I said, unfortunately. :brickwall:

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51

Man of Faith

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #155 on: May 22, 2013, 12:34:51 PM »
Peace mmkhan,

No need to take such a defensive stance brother. I am not disallowing you from having your opinion and I am sorry if I was sarcastic before. I am sure you care about people and I was slightly misusing your mood state.

Sorry that I was referring to you but it was because it was your main idea so I used you as reference. Well, since you obviously have been reading my posts you know my conversation with brother Bender. I thought you may had put me on ignore or something.

I am sure you were pressured earlier when you responded to me and others, I understand how frustrating it must be to be so determined about something and people do not believe you. If you are right about the non-Muhammad theory then try harder and people might embrace your ideas if they are true. Please do not believe that he is utterly important for me, I am truly God alone and that is not the reason I argued about him but only for the Truth itself.

And if Muhammad is actually a man then we must respect him like any other dead person. I am sure that there is a man who wrote down Quran and even if his name was not Muhammad we must show a little respect at least, not because he was prophet or messenger but for his status as a human being. Or the anonymous prophet as you would like to put it.

Hmm... I do not remember that I told you that I am out of it, but I may have lost my memory about it. Perhaps I was also under influence of emotions.

May we stay like brothers despite our differences.

God bless you
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Bender

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #156 on: May 22, 2013, 01:50:16 PM »
Peace Bender,

I respect your opinion and I will keep yours and mmkhans approach on my mind, but I am not excluding Muhammad at this time. For the sake of coherence I keep him in my reference. The prophet in Quran is called Muhammad by me for now.

I find it a bit silly to give an example. What about most of the context of Quran. You can sure find it yourself. Maybe I will give an example and description when I have the opportunity.

Anyway, like mmkhan was trying to say, God is what counts the most if not entirely. But I have a more open attitude, perhaps. Well, I am just a little bit better than I used to be :)

God bless you

Salaamun alayka,

 :handshake:

Salaam,
Bender
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

Bender

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #157 on: May 22, 2013, 02:33:50 PM »
So, please then, give a translation of 48.29


On the other hand, it is very logic if a messenger was to come whose name will be Ahmad, which means the most praiseworthy, that later on the fullfilment of 3isa's rediction be stressed by stating that indeed, the most preaisale is indeed praised, which is Muhammadun, one that was to be the most praisedworthy surpisingly turns out also to be praised.

So what is shocking about that and why so much mistery on the part of the "there is no messenger muhammad to come and give in plain words and without riddles what their notion is, because as yet I have not seen that they have given any explanation of anything that should clear anything at all. All we get is "that can't be.

No reason why that cannot be and no idea of what can be either. So we are left with a batallion of prophets whose ,essages are not guranteed and the one message which is guranteed, is forbidden to have a transmitter from God to the rest of the mortals, because it si a sin to speak of such a prophet. I find it too much of a joke. Not that I am shocked. I am not, I feel cheated, because of much ado about nothing and what looks like a big promise of some way the Qur'an was transmitted, but there is nothing, so according to that notion what we should believe, ignorant as we are, is that the Qur'an is there but forbidden to discuss or imagine how it came to be there. If that is not what is being said, then please be clearer, because I am starting to feel the whole thing as a practical joke. So people are lectured if they speak about Muhammad, but then they are asked to believe in what, in speontaneous generation? so it seems.

If those who put forward the ban Muhammad campaign cannot answer what they are asked, then I am out of this thread because it is a cheat.  I know that nobody is going to cry for that, for sure I am not, Huruf can leave any time she wants, but I want to say that: that nothing is being spoken clearly and all I have seen is a parade of offers which are not followed by any delivery. Bluff is called, isn't it.

Salaam

Salaam

Salaamun alayki,

I do not understand why this discussion is so heated up. We are just discussing ideas.

Anyways imo 48:29 says "Mohammed is the messenger of Allah..."
first this is a statement, second the statement was there 1000 years ago and is still here at present time and will be in the future.
Does this Mohammed not die if it was a person? So if it dies then it can for sure not be the Mohammed of The Quran, because the Mohammed of 48:29 in The Quran is always in present time. Note also that it is written as MohammedUN, thus a not specified Mohammed.
it is written in the same way as "Allahu rabbu Al3alameena" only difference is that it is not Al-LahUN as Allah is always specified and present.
Anyways this is how Allah showed me.

Also I like to say that there is nothing to feel cheated about, we are just discussing.
And there is no ban Mohammed campain.
As I already told, I have no answers yet for the questions.
The only thing I know at the moment is that from my study and with what Allah showed me, Mohammed of 48:29 can never be a name of a person, probably it is something like a title.
That's all I know.
And I also do not agree with MmKhan that it was Musa.

Anyways lets try not to get in  :voodoo: mood  :) I think this is a interesting subject and at the end of the day we will all learn more inshaAllah.

Salaam,
Bender



 
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

kgwithnob

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #158 on: May 22, 2013, 05:19:52 PM »
... Note also that it is written as MohammedUN, thus a not specified Mohammed...

Dear Bender,

In Arabic language, nearly all PERSONAL MASCULINE NOUNS end with ?THZAMMAH TANWIN?, which pronounces ?UN?. It is a rule of the language. This ending can change to other forms depending on the structure of the sentence, but the noun will still remain a noun. It does not change to anything else like where you guys out of ignorance think it is a ?CHARACTER?. See the verses below as examples.

BTW; the names in the verses below are all PROPER nouns.

26:106 إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ نُوحٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:124  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ هُودٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:142  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ صَـٰلِحٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:161  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ لُوطٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:177  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ شُعَيۡبٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ


Peace,
Khalil

The_Chimp

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #159 on: May 22, 2013, 05:56:38 PM »
Dear Bender,

In Arabic language All PERSONAL MASCULINE NOUNS end with ?THZAMMAH TANWIN?, which pronounces ?UN?. It is a rule of the language. This ending can change to other forms depending on the structure of the sentence, but the noun will still remain a noun. It does not change to anything else like where you guys out of ignorance think it is a ?CHARACTER?. See the verses below as examples.

BTW; the names in the verses below are all PROPER nouns.

26:106 إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ نُوحٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:124  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ هُودٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:142  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ صَـٰلِحٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:161  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ أَخُوهُمۡ لُوطٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ
26:177  إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ شُعَيۡبٌ أَلَا تَتَّقُونَ


Peace,
Khalil

Hi,

Not all names end in Tanween - non Arabic names such as Ibrahim do not.