Author Topic: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::  (Read 75881 times)

Man of Faith

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #140 on: May 21, 2013, 10:34:12 PM »
Peace,

Where does 39:45 enter the picture in response to wrkmmn's post? I doubt he means that we should feel joy about hearing Muhammad's name. Just that we should not twist the Truth. I think very few here idolize Muhammad to any greater extent.

Use the ayat of the Quran wisely please.

God bless you
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huruf

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #141 on: May 22, 2013, 12:46:59 AM »
I think that borther Mmkhan is very much within his own reflections and believes in them but when it comes to bringing over to others what he thinks or believes is right, I really cannot make heads or tails of it, specifically in this question. I still do not know what he is getting at or what he sees wrong with people thinking that the Qur'an was revealed or given or borught or whatever to a perticular person and that person having a name or being denominated by whatever means.

Usually revelation, be it new revelation or the same revelation renewed, comes and is transmitted through certian people, all over the world, sometimes as utterances in the transmitter own expression, sometimes in the very form it was revealed.

I find it surprising that somebody should take the whole of Qur'an as authentic and really a revelation from The Divine, and that at the same there should be3 so much stinginess in recognizing that it has come through some human vehicle to the rest of the people who are not that vehicle. What is wrong with having a rasul, human rasul, as has been done all over time all over the world, to bring the good news to the people? I am at a loss as to this whole problem of a messenger being a problem.

And yes, we all may be messengers for everybody else, but so what? That first messenger to give us word by word the Qur'an what was it, a cloud, an automatic device? The praised or the most praised automatic device? Yes the Qur'an is embedded in everybody's fitra, so what? There is still a Qur'an word by word that has been transmitted generation after generation, and which must have come from somewhere, as a brother says, what? was it found under a rock or something?

For sure I do not want to make fun of anybody, except myself, but I sum up saying the same as at the beginning of this message, brother Mmkhan, be clearer, we do not see what it seems you want to show, really what are you getting at? so that we do not have to guess and, as it seems, guess wrong again and again.

Salaam

mmkhan

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #142 on: May 22, 2013, 01:37:34 AM »
peace mmkhan:
the issue here is not about worshiping God alone, don't twist it. The issue is that you want to leave us with a nameless prophet. Do you really believe that the believers, which have been many since the birth of Islam, would forget to pass on the true name of the prophet. Come on! that's nonsensical, and is like saying that the Israelites would have forgotten the name of Moses, or the Christians Jesus.  If we accept your proposition, we will have a book containing a message from God  that was received by nobody. Then in the future somebody like You will come out with the Idea that the Book descended it form heaven,  or that somebody found it under a rock (like the Mormons).

Peace wrkmmn,

Red: Am I twisting the word of Allah? I seek refuge in Allah for the same. Do you see that aayat about WORSHIPING Allah alone? :&

Why don't you see if you are fitting in the aayat 39:45? Is this aayat not for you? I see in each and every aayat whether I fit in that in a positive or negative sense. I quoted this aayat only after seeing people's frustration when Allah is mentioned ALONE. I don't see what is the problem with it? Why they need some other human with Allah for whatever reason it might be, specially when it is not mentioned in alQuraan.

@huruf, Salaam,

I am not trying to apply anything on anybody, I am just trying to bring all to our ONE SINGLE LORD, ALLAH. But I can see, I fail here to do so. I also saw that no body cares to see what aayaat of alQuraan says, they are ready to reject or ignore it. But they are happy to believe in something which is NOT mentioned in alQuraan. Surprized!!!

When I got upset and sad after reading all the responses to this thread where people don't want to accept only Allah alone. Allah has shown me 6:33. Either you see it fits at the situation or not, but I am thankful to my Lord on His guidance, alhamduliAllah :hail

6:33 قَدۡ نَعۡلَمُ اِنَّہٗ لَیَحۡزُنُکَ الَّذِیۡ یَقُوۡلُوۡنَ فَاِنَّہُمۡ لَا یُکَذِّبُوۡنَکَ وَ لٰکِنَّ الظّٰلِمِیۡنَ بِاٰیٰتِ اللّٰہِ یَجۡحَدُوۡنَ
6:33 We know that you, are saddened by what they say. And indeed, they do not call you untruthful, but it is the verses of Allah that the wrongdoers have problem with.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51

Man of Faith

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #143 on: May 22, 2013, 02:05:07 AM »
Peace,

Who says anything about needing other than God? I think that you underestimate people. Because we acknowledge that the Quran was delivered by a man called Muhammad we associate partners with God? This has not to do with being content with God alone and it is just for a factual reason I believe this. The Quran could have been delivered by a man called Santa Claus too if it was true and we would believe it.

God bless you
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Bender

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #144 on: May 22, 2013, 03:39:55 AM »
Peace,

Who says anything about needing other than God? I think that you underestimate people. Because we acknowledge that the Quran was delivered by a man called Muhammad we associate partners with God? This has not to do with being content with God alone and it is just for a factual reason I believe this. The Quran could have been delivered by a man called Santa Claus too if it was true and we would believe it.

God bless you

Salaamun alayka,

May I ask how you acknowledged this, because till today I have not seen a single person who has proofed this with only Quran verses.

Salaam,
Bender
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

Bender

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #145 on: May 22, 2013, 03:52:23 AM »

When I got upset and sad after reading all the responses to this thread where people don't want to accept only Allah alone.

Salaamun alayka,

I think the emotions from some people is because they were able to leave the hadiths about the bad Mohammed, but they did not leave yet the hadiths about the good Mohammed.
So doing the good Mohammed injustice (ofcourse not from Quranic point of view) is at the moment a little bit to much.

Quote
Allah has shown me 6:33. Either you see it fits at the situation or not, but I am thankful to my Lord on His guidance, alhamduliAllah :hail

6:33 قَدۡ نَعۡلَمُ اِنَّہٗ لَیَحۡزُنُکَ الَّذِیۡ یَقُوۡلُوۡنَ فَاِنَّہُمۡ لَا یُکَذِّبُوۡنَکَ وَ لٰکِنَّ الظّٰلِمِیۡنَ بِاٰیٰتِ اللّٰہِ یَجۡحَدُوۡنَ
6:33 We know that you, are saddened by what they say. And indeed, they do not call you untruthful, but it is the verses of Allah that the wrongdoers have problem with.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path :pr
mmKhan

What are you talking about??? that ayaat is not for you, you forgot brackets  >:(
6:33 We know that you (O Mohammed), are saddened by what they (kuffar of Mekka and Medina) say. And indeed, they (kuffar of Mekka and Medina) do not call you (O Mohammed) untruthful, but it is the verses of Allah that the wrongdoers have problem with.[/color]

Salaam,
Bender
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

Man of Faith

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #146 on: May 22, 2013, 05:30:35 AM »
Peace brother Bender,

It comes down to the interpretation of verses. We acknowledge through the verses that this person was called Muhammad, nickname or not. And like I said, hypothetically it would not matter if he was called Santa Claus, we just want something to refer to.

I understand if it is thrilling to remove Muhammad completely off your map for the purpose of nullifying the practices of traditional muslims once and for all. I am just curious who the man in the Quran who lived through the stories was then. And who was the man with so many stories invented about him and original written parchment with the Quran on written by him.

Whoever it is who wrote it we can call him Muhammad even if by nickname. How does it matter?

Should we refer to him as the anonymous messenger that the Quran was revealed to and who caused a lot of stories to emerge? Codename Muhammad is better then, is it not? Is it better to pretend he never existed?

Oh by the way, how about "the Quran man"?

Okay. I admit I am a bit sarcastic now. But remember if you erase Muhammad from history you have a book written by no one since God did not finish it straight in Heaven and sent it down. It was revealed to someone who wrote it down. A prophet.

Still I wonder why you are so touchy about one man no matter what his name was. And it is not because I embrace hadith, I have barely ever read a hadith.

God bless you
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huruf

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #147 on: May 22, 2013, 07:08:44 AM »
Yes, I am puzzled, he torah or whatever or the injil or the zabur has permission from intelligent people to have been received by one prophet or other, but there is no such permission for the Qur'an. Understood. Good. Great. So did it  come through a pure virgin who didn't even feel something passed through her or there is another way we stupid people have not thought about?

I am beeing sarcastic, yes, because, I asked certain questions or raised certain points, other people did too, and the only answer I got was that God alone was wanted. Great. Obviously I hadn't thought of that, I was having luch with Saturn, Brhmaputra, Bush son and father, a few gnomes and dunces and whatever.


Please do not hide behind "Godaloneskirts?". We may be on another lower, much lower level than others, but please leave the God alone admonitions and holier than thou stuff  and say whatever you have to say as to how the Qur'an came to the first people who got it. You know? that book that starts with Bismillaherahmanirrahim, and then goes on with Alhamdul-llahi... See the one I mean?

All the other put forward we already got it, even before reading this thread,  we all are prophets or could be. Great. Good. Very well. That I am sure of, but I confess that I did not have anything to do with giving the Qur'an to print orwrite down or recite the first time it was done. All I want to know is how and through which means it came about as it is and got to be known like that. The God alone part, I my be unworth of it, but I did get right the first time, and even before, and even while I was christian I never mistook with God a bearded man. I don't like beards. So now may be we can get to the next bit.

Talking about deliveries, I hope there is nto a mother doing the job here, because it really is turning out laborious. Ya salaam.

Salaam

Bender

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #148 on: May 22, 2013, 07:38:38 AM »
Peace brother Bender,

It comes down to the interpretation of verses. We acknowledge through the verses that this person was called Muhammad, nickname or not. And like I said, hypothetically it would not matter if he was called Santa Claus, we just want something to refer to.

Salaamun alayka,

RED: interpretation based on The Quran or sources other then The Quran?
BLUE: Can you give me an example of such verse please.

Quote
I understand if it is thrilling to remove Muhammad completely off your map for the purpose of nullifying the practices of traditional muslims once and for all.
GREEN: you totally misunderstood  ;)
The simple purpose is to get the truth. As simple as that. If a sect X can proof only from Quran deed Y, then I will inshaAllah practise Y in the same way as sect X.
It's not a hunt on Mohammed but a hunt for truth.

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I am just curious who the man in the Quran who lived through the stories was then.

Can you give an example?

Quote
And who was the man with so many stories invented about him and original written parchment with the Quran on written by him.
I dunno

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Whoever it is who wrote it we can call him Muhammad even if by nickname. How does it matter?
It matters if it is not the truth. Unless one doesn't care much about truth.

Quote
Should we refer to him as the anonymous messenger that the Quran was revealed to and who caused a lot of stories to emerge? Codename Muhammad is better then, is it not? Is it better to pretend he never existed?
imo there must be a first person(s) who got The Quran first, and imo we can find who this person is by studying only the verses of The Quran very carefully.
And I am sure the information is there in The Quran in front of our eyes, but we can't grasp it because we are not clean enough to see it.

Quote
Oh by the way, how about "the Quran man"?

Okay. I admit I am a bit sarcastic now. But remember if you erase Muhammad from history you have a book written by no one since God did not finish it straight in Heaven and sent it down. It was revealed to someone who wrote it down. A prophet.
As long as no one brings Quranic evidence almost every scenario is possible, but only 1 is the truth.


Quote
Still I wonder why you are so touchy about one man no matter what his name was. And it is not because I embrace hadith, I have barely ever read a hadith.

God bless you

Touchy? Maybe you can give me an example where I overreacted so that inshaAllah I can correct myself.

Salaam,
Bender
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

mmkhan

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Re: :: Was Muhammed name of a Prophet? ::
« Reply #149 on: May 22, 2013, 07:54:54 AM »
Salaam,

See if this may help someone :hmm


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51