Author Topic: :: Who brought AlQuraan/AlKitaab? Muhammed? NO!!! ::  (Read 20039 times)

357

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Re: :: Who brought AlQuraan/AlKitaab? Muhammed? NO!!! ::
« Reply #70 on: July 26, 2012, 08:54:58 AM »
So, could we keep up the subject gentlemen , and do try to answer the question:

Who brought AlQuraan/AlKitaab? Muhammed? NO!!!

(do try to answer without old or new hadiths),

 thank you

Try this...........if you have time.

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600004.msg239942#msg239942

 :peace:

GODsubmitter

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Re: :: Who brought AlQuraan/AlKitaab? Muhammed? NO!!! ::
« Reply #71 on: July 26, 2012, 12:26:49 PM »
Thank you so much brother @357!

It is utterly interesting and informative!

Thank you for the links and threads, don't know how would I be able to find them otherwise.

 :peace:
God has no Religion!

God is running everything.

Peace begins with me.

Wakas

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Re: :: Who brought AlQuraan/AlKitaab? Muhammed? NO!!! ::
« Reply #72 on: December 31, 2012, 03:35:02 PM »
Just read the first post. The evidence presented is very poor in my view.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Mazhar

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Re: :: Who brought AlQuraan/AlKitaab? Muhammed? NO!!! ::
« Reply #73 on: December 31, 2012, 04:32:04 PM »
Quote
Just read the first post. The evidence presented is very poor in my view.

Salaam,

I was wondering who brought AlQuraan/AlKitaab, but could not find any answer from AlQuraan till now. But Allah has shown me something just now, lets take a look at it.

69:40 اِنَّہٗ لَقَوۡلُ رَسُوۡلٍ کَرِیۡمٍ
69:40 Indeed, it is surely a speech of a noble Messenger.

81:19 اِنَّہٗ لَقَوۡلُ رَسُوۡلٍ کَرِیۡمٍ
81:19 Indeed, it is surely a speech of a noble Messenger.

Who is this Rasoolin Kareem [a noble Messenger]?

Some say, he is Jibraeel - There is no evidence from AlQuraan that Jibraeel is a Rasoolin Kareem.

Some say, he is Muhammed - There is no evidence from AlQuraan that Muhammed is a Rasoolin Kareem.

No other choice left. But no body ever think, whom Allah called a Rasoolin Kareem. Can you guess? Try!! OK! Please check 44:17

44:17 وَ لَقَدۡ فَتَنَّا قَبۡلَہُمۡ قَوۡمَ فِرۡعَوۡنَ وَ جَآءَہُمۡ رَسُوۡلٌ کَرِیۡمٌ
44:17 And We had already tried before them the people of Pharaoh, and there came to them a noble messenger.

A Noble Messenger is with "M", that is not Muhammed, not Me either but that is Musa. This is only messenger called Rasoolin Kareem in AlQuraan.


One word قَبۡلَہُمۡ suffices to prove how erroneous is the premises of thread.


mmkhan

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Re: :: Who brought AlQuraan/AlKitaab? Muhammed? NO!!! ::
« Reply #74 on: December 31, 2012, 06:14:10 PM »
One word قَبۡلَہُمۡ suffices to prove how erroneous is the premises of thread.

How ? Will you please explain?

And what does قَبۡلَہُمۡ means as per your understanding?


May Allah guide us to His path :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51

Mazhar

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Re: :: Who brought AlQuraan/AlKitaab? Muhammed? NO!!! ::
« Reply #75 on: January 01, 2013, 02:35:22 AM »
How ? Will you please explain?

And what does قَبۡلَہُمۡ means as per your understanding?


May Allah guide us to His path :pr
mmKhan

 فَتَنَّا قَبْلَهُمْ قَوْمَ فِرْعَوْنَ

?قَبْلَهُمْ? ظرف زمان ?قَوْمَ? مفعول به ?فِرْعَوْنَ? مضاف إليه

Pronoun Hum refers to the people whom Qur'aan addressed and before them in time line were the nation of Pharoah.

وَجَاءَهُمْ رَسُولٌ كَرِيمٌ

Pronoun Hum refers to the people  قَوْمَ فِرْعَوْنَ . Subject of verb, that is who came to them is رَسُولٌ. It is indefinite noun therefore needs to be made somewhat specific so كَرِيمٌ  adjectival صفة رسول  makes it specified. This is an episode of long time back than the people referred by قَبْلَهُمْ? ظرف زمان.

Solomon

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Re: :: Who brought AlQuraan/AlKitaab? Muhammed? NO!!! ::
« Reply #76 on: January 01, 2013, 02:54:31 AM »
Salam mmKhan,

This is my post in another topic regarding the issue. I'm posting it here:

 You do have a point from the Quranic perspective that Quran was given to Moses, not Muhammad. This view has some support in historical records because some manuscripts from the very early period of Islam (7th century) shows that the Saracens/Muhageerens/Hagarenes/Ishmaelites (today's "muslims") had very good relations with the Jews of the time. The jews were even fighting alongside the Muslims. Apparently, the hostility between Jews and muslims started after AbdulMalik ibn Marwan and gained full traction during Abbasid period when hadiths such as those which prophecise killing jews were invented.

However the first question that comes to my mind is how come the quran discusses about Jesus, Mary, Zachariah, hijrah (emigration), Yathrib, Mecca and other concepts that came after Moses? Also, how come quranic manuscripts older than 7th century has not been found as the bible has been?

GODsubmitter

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Re: :: Who brought AlQuraan/AlKitaab? Muhammed? NO!!! ::
« Reply #77 on: January 01, 2013, 10:21:27 AM »
Salam mmKhan,

This is my post in another topic regarding the issue. I'm posting it here:

 You do have a point from the Quranic perspective that Quran was given to Moses, not Muhammad. This view has some support in historical records because some manuscripts from the very early period of Islam (7th century) shows that the Saracens/Muhageerens/Hagarenes/Ishmaelites (today's "muslims") had very good relations with the Jews of the time. The jews were even fighting alongside the Muslims. Apparently, the hostility between Jews and muslims started after AbdulMalik ibn Marwan and gained full traction during Abbasid period when hadiths such as those which prophecise killing jews were invented.

However the first question that comes to my mind is how come the quran discusses about Jesus, Mary, Zachariah, hijrah (emigration), Yathrib, Mecca and other concepts that came after Moses? Also, how come quranic manuscripts older than 7th century has not been found as the bible has been?

Very interesting post...
But I think no Bible in its entirety was found before 7th C either... just some scattered scrolls in Hebrew I think...
And the oldest complete Hebrew Bible is from 10th century I think... (if you want I can gather the proofs and data again)
That's what made me think at one point that the Qur'an might be even earlier Scripture then the Bible... :)
But then, historicity and linal perception of time is not such a serious category... ;)
God has no Religion!

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mmkhan

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Re: :: Who brought AlQuraan/AlKitaab? Muhammed? NO!!! ::
« Reply #78 on: January 01, 2013, 02:32:44 PM »
However the first question that comes to my mind is how come the quran discusses about Jesus, Mary, Zachariah, hijrah (emigration), Yathrib, Mecca and other concepts that came after Moses? Also, how come quranic manuscripts older than 7th century has not been found as the bible has been?

Salaam Borakk,

Please take a look at my reply#10 of this thread or click here. And regarding Eisa, Maryam, Zachariayya, I think they all are available at the same time of Musa as per 19:28. And Yathrib, Makkah etc, are not referring to physical places as per my understanding.

Red: I cannot say anything about manuscripts, they might have destroyed and that is not important as a part of this discussion.

If alQuraan was given to Musa in writing, it might have given in parts. For example, one task was given to Musa, like going to Firaun, then their communication, etc. is mentioned in writing and given to Musa and so on. This is how I think now.


May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51

mmkhan

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Re: :: Who brought AlQuraan/AlKitaab? Muhammed? NO!!! ::
« Reply #79 on: January 01, 2013, 02:38:20 PM »
فَتَنَّا قَبْلَهُمْ قَوْمَ فِرْعَوْنَ

?قَبْلَهُمْ? ظرف زمان ?قَوْمَ? مفعول به ?فِرْعَوْنَ? مضاف إليه

Pronoun Hum refers to the people whom Qur'aan addressed and before them in time line were the nation of Pharoah.

وَجَاءَهُمْ رَسُولٌ كَرِيمٌ

Pronoun Hum refers to the people  قَوْمَ فِرْعَوْنَ . Subject of verb, that is who came to them is رَسُولٌ. It is indefinite noun therefore needs to be made somewhat specific so كَرِيمٌ  adjectival صفة رسول  makes it specified. This is an episode of long time back than the people referred by قَبْلَهُمْ? ظرف زمان.

Yes, so what is the problem here? How is this support what you said "One word قَبۡلَہُمۡ suffices to prove how erroneous is the premises of thread."?

If you read my opening post, it already clearly said that this is referring to qawme firaun.

I think, you misunderstood the concept of this thread. Please re-read it.


May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51