Author Topic: Verse 2:54 Perhaps Needs Proper Translation  (Read 21584 times)

sushi1992

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Re: Verse 2:54 Perhaps Needs Proper Translation
« Reply #80 on: December 27, 2014, 12:43:35 PM »
Peace MOF, hope you had a good Christmas break.

So I've been reading this thread, and yes, I realize that qtl (or qatala used in 2.54) does not always mean kill (I.e. kill the physical body....) As in 2.54 it wouldn't make sense... Neither in the verses mentioned in chapter 4 as you can't capture and say if they repent as they would be already dead so.....

Did anyone actually come to a conclusion of what the actual translation might be? I've been researching it but I'm still unsure as I'm quite poor with Arabic....

Peace :peace:
Allah created all in the world for you to live and use. Use your knowledge, heart, mind and soul to determine your path in guidance with God, the Designer and Creator, and you shall succeed as a right

Farabi

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Re: Verse 2:54 Perhaps Needs Proper Translation
« Reply #81 on: December 27, 2014, 09:34:31 PM »
Literary QTL mean kill. But on the quran, sometime it used as a parable.
At first I thought I'll be neutral by replacing my emotional attachment, what then happened was, I switch my side from the other extreme to the other one. I had no idea what is neutrality.

sushi1992

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Re: Verse 2:54 Perhaps Needs Proper Translation
« Reply #82 on: December 27, 2014, 09:53:10 PM »
So the translation of 2:54 is kill yourself? Or kill your soul? Kill can be replaced by something more metaphorically pleasing could it not? I.e. mortify yourselves as I've seen from one translation. Huruf/mof, perhaps I missed a post but what is your actual translation and why? I didn't quite understand your point in regards to la not always meaning "not" .

Peace :peace:
Allah created all in the world for you to live and use. Use your knowledge, heart, mind and soul to determine your path in guidance with God, the Designer and Creator, and you shall succeed as a right

Man of Faith

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Re: Verse 2:54 Perhaps Needs Proper Translation
« Reply #83 on: December 28, 2014, 12:44:16 AM »
Harmony be with you sushi1992,

Literally the word qatal means 'exhort' and does not refer to killing at all. It is a misconception.

It has connotations like: scold, admonish, to correct (v.).

Have faith
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sushi1992

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Re: Verse 2:54 Perhaps Needs Proper Translation
« Reply #84 on: December 28, 2014, 05:48:59 AM »
Harmony be with you sushi1992,

Literally the word qatal means 'exhort' and does not refer to killing at all. It is a misconception.

It has connotations like: scold, admonish, to correct (v.).

Have faith

Peace MoF,

You say that qatal means "exhort" but in the verse mentioned I don't see qatal...

2:54 واذ and when قال said موسى Musa/Moses لقومه to folk his ىا O قوم folk انكم that surely you ظلمتم have wronged you انفسكم anfusakum/souls yours (i.e. yourselves) باتخاذكم in taking you العجل the calf فتوبوا so turn/repent ye of الى to بارىكم creator yours فاقتلوا so slays ye of انفسكم anfusakum/souls yours (i.e. change your erring ways of idolatry) ذلكم such yours خىر good/best لكم for you عند near بارىكم creator yours فتاب so turned علىكم on you انه surely he هو he التواب the frequent الرحىم the merciful

(Above was a Quote from some other person in the thread)

The words used are ikum faoqtuloo anfusakum.. my Arabic as I said is poor but that looks difficult to qatal. (Have patience with me lol).

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Farabi

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Re: Verse 2:54 Perhaps Needs Proper Translation
« Reply #85 on: December 28, 2014, 09:26:09 PM »
Harmony be with you sushi1992,

Literally the word qatal means 'exhort' and does not refer to killing at all. It is a misconception.

It has connotations like: scold, admonish, to correct (v.).

Have faith

So, how do you said this on arabic, "A criminal kill his hostage"? Im curious.

Why dont you made your own translation and remove QTL mean maybe for example, tickling. Lets see what will be the translation be. I dont think changing the quran words mean will give us any benefit. I think it only give us confusion. Lets just do that, we remove the word kill from the world in order to hope that killing will be vanished. I dont think it gonna worked that way. What is gonna happen then is, there would be a new word to describe the act of killing and people will asking, what if my family was beeing killed?

Have a look at this verse http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=3&verse=154#%283:154:60%29 lets assume that QTL mean is not killing, anyone had time to retranslate this verse and write it in here?

It is not the quran which need to change, but our self who need to change.
At first I thought I'll be neutral by replacing my emotional attachment, what then happened was, I switch my side from the other extreme to the other one. I had no idea what is neutrality.

sushi1992

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Re: Verse 2:54 Perhaps Needs Proper Translation
« Reply #86 on: January 01, 2015, 12:08:57 PM »
I'll await other people's responses on this as well...
Allah created all in the world for you to live and use. Use your knowledge, heart, mind and soul to determine your path in guidance with God, the Designer and Creator, and you shall succeed as a right