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:: Ramadhan Fasting or .....? ::

Started by mmkhan, July 20, 2012, 12:21:22 PM

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dawngorgeous

Then the fasting mentioned in 2, 187 must be sex.

mmkhan

Salaam Dawn,

Yes 2:187 is about sex, but how about 2:183-2:185?
And what exactly Saum means is explained in 19:26.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.

3:51

dawngorgeous

Peace mm,

I meant that the whole of the verse 187 must be about sex.  The words translated as -eat and -drink must be figurative and must be referring to sex.  Consume it and enjoy it until daybreak...then..?

Dawn.

mmkhan

Quote from: dawngorgeous on June 13, 2013, 02:04:37 PM
Peace mm,

I meant that the whole of the verse 187 must be about sex.  The words translated as -eat and -drink must be figurative and must be referring to sex.  Consume it and enjoy it until daybreak...then..?

Dawn.

Peace Dawn,

Then..?

Thumma Atimmu alSiyaama ila alLayli...2:187
alSiyaama is plural of Saum and what is Saum? It is defined in 19:26.

If kulu wa-shraboo means eat-n-drink, then 19:26 also talk about it while doing saum, hence it contradict with 2:187.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.

3:51

mmkhan

Salaam,

This is an update to the opening post, inshaAllah.

There are three major questions asked by many people.

- Why shahr means full-moon and why not a month?
- How many days we have to fast?
- What means saum [singular] or siyaam [plural]?

InshaAllah, I will try to answer all these questions from alQuraan by the permission of my Lord, Allah.


Question:
Why shahr means full-moon and why not a month?

2:185 شَہۡرُ رَمَضَانَ الَّذِیۡۤ اُنۡزِلَ فِیۡہِ الۡقُرۡاٰنُ ہُدًی لِّلنَّاسِ وَ بَیِّنٰتٍ مِّنَ الۡہُدٰی وَ الۡفُرۡقَانِ ۚ فَمَنۡ شَہِدَ مِنۡکُمُ الشَّہۡرَ فَلۡیَصُمۡہُ ؕ وَ مَنۡ کَانَ مَرِیۡضًا اَوۡ عَلٰی سَفَرٍ فَعِدَّۃٌ مِّنۡ اَیَّامٍ اُخَرَ ؕ یُرِیۡدُ اللّٰہُ بِکُمُ الۡیُسۡرَ وَ لَا یُرِیۡدُ بِکُمُ الۡعُسۡرَ ۫ وَ لِتُکۡمِلُوا الۡعِدَّۃَ وَ لِتُکَبِّرُوا اللّٰہَ عَلٰی مَا ہَدٰىکُمۡ وَ لَعَلَّکُمۡ تَشۡکُرُوۡنَ
2:185 The month of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever sights the month, let him fast it; and whoever is ill or on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship and for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that which He has guided you; and perhaps you will be grateful [Translation is just copied and pasted with some changes].

The highlighted part says "So whoever witnesses alShahr, so let him fast it". Here, if you take shahr as a month, please tell me how can you witness the month? You can witness a calendar, but not the month. Right?
If you think you can witness the month, I should ask, which calendar month? Gregorian's, Arabic's, Urdu's, Hindu's or Fiscal calendar? That is not mentioned in the aayat above.

Besides this, if you think that you can witness the month, then you have to fast a single day as per the above highlighted part. Which says, So whoever witnesses the month, so let him FAST IT. Yasum is the word used above is referring to a single saum, so no need to fast for a complete month, just one saum of the month will do.


Question:
How many days we have to fast?

2:185 شَہۡرُ رَمَضَانَ الَّذِیۡۤ اُنۡزِلَ فِیۡہِ الۡقُرۡاٰنُ ہُدًی لِّلنَّاسِ وَ بَیِّنٰتٍ مِّنَ الۡہُدٰی وَ الۡفُرۡقَانِ ۚ فَمَنۡ شَہِدَ مِنۡکُمُ الشَّہۡرَ فَلۡیَصُمۡہُ ؕ وَ مَنۡ کَانَ مَرِیۡضًا اَوۡ عَلٰی سَفَرٍ فَعِدَّۃٌ مِّنۡ اَیَّامٍ اُخَرَ ؕ یُرِیۡدُ اللّٰہُ بِکُمُ الۡیُسۡرَ وَ لَا یُرِیۡدُ بِکُمُ الۡعُسۡرَ ۫ وَ لِتُکۡمِلُوا الۡعِدَّۃَ وَ لِتُکَبِّرُوا اللّٰہَ عَلٰی مَا ہَدٰىکُمۡ وَ لَعَلَّکُمۡ تَشۡکُرُوۡنَ
2:185 The month of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever sights the month, let him fast it; and whoever is ill or on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship and for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that which He has guided you; and perhaps you will be grateful [Translation is just copied and pasted with some changes].

When you understand that alShahr does not mean a month [above] but a full-moon, the same highlighted part above shows us the number of days to fast.

When you witness a full-moon, you have to fast it. Then again if you witness a full-moon next day, you have to fast it. This is how it goes. There might be 3 full-moons, or 5 full-moons, or 7 full-moons [not sure about the seven though]. But I have witnessed 3 full-moons last year and this year 5.

This is the reason I think "ayyaman ma3doodatin" is used, that means "a limited number of days" and a fixed number of days are not given clearly.


Question:
What means saum [singular] or siyaam [plural]?

Without going into confusions, it is simple to see the definition of word saum in 19:26.
If you take "kuloo wa ishraboo" means "eat and drink", then you can see a contradiction between 2:187 and 19:26 as the definition of saum in 19:26 starts with eat and drink.

19:26 فَکُلِیۡ وَ اشۡرَبِیۡ وَ قَرِّیۡ عَیۡنًا ۚ فَاِمَّا تَرَیِنَّ مِنَ الۡبَشَرِ اَحَدًا ۙ فَقُوۡلِیۡۤ اِنِّیۡ نَذَرۡتُ لِلرَّحۡمٰنِ صَوۡمًا فَلَنۡ اُکَلِّمَ الۡیَوۡمَ اِنۡسِیًّا
19:26 So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to man.' "


Hope this may help inshaAllah. This is just my personal understanding, please check all the quoted aayaat carefully before accepting it.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.

3:51

supportpeacenotwar

Peace mmkhan,

Thank you for this helpful update! The bit about witnessing the month... the way its put, it made me consider: why would it say witness a month when anyone who is here on Earth will know of the month in any case? The witness part sounds much more like it's witnessing something else in particular as you mentioned. Those are just some thoughts.
The above post may no longer represent my beliefs based on evidence and considering such topics further.
I no longer follow a "Quran only" approach.
I would simply say I follow Islam.

justamuslim

Mmkhan,

I have been reading your posts intently and digesting them.  In verse 2:183, the word used is ALsiyam which implies a specific type.  Not just any Siyam.  But ALsiyam.  In verse 19:26, Siyam is used. 

Any thoughts on that?  Mind sharing.

Looking forward to your posts.  Thanks.


mmkhan

Quote from: supportpeacenotwar on July 13, 2013, 05:14:07 PM
Peace mmkhan,

Thank you for this helpful update! The bit about witnessing the month... the way its put, it made me consider: why would it say witness a month when anyone who is here on Earth will know of the month in any case? The witness part sounds much more like it's witnessing something else in particular as you mentioned. Those are just some thoughts.

Pease sPnW,

Thank you for your input, I agree :handshake:


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.

3:51

justamuslim

Quote from: supportpeacenotwar on July 13, 2013, 05:14:07 PM
Peace mmkhan,

Thank you for this helpful update! The bit about witnessing the month... the way its put, it made me consider: why would it say witness a month when anyone who is here on Earth will know of the month in any case? The witness part sounds much more like it's witnessing something else in particular as you mentioned. Those are just some thoughts.


Me too!   Shahid from what I understand means a witness.   I have never heard of or asked anyone 'have you witnessed month' or moon for that matter.  You see a moon not witness a moon.  Is it an Arabic expression to say "witness a moon or month"? 

mmkhan

Quote from: justamuslim on July 13, 2013, 05:21:45 PM
Mmkhan,

I have been reading your posts intently and digesting them.  In verse 2:183, the word used is ALsiyam which implies a specific type.  Not just any Siyam.  But ALsiyam.  In verse 19:26, Siyam is used. 

Any thoughts on that?  Mind sharing.

Looking forward to your posts.  Thanks.
Peace justamuslim,

Thanks.
As per my understanding the usage of AL is given in this thread. Please follow, it may be helpful, inshaAllah. The word sauman used in 19:26 simply means "a fast".

You are welcome.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.

3:51