Author Topic: Inheritance according to Qur?an  (Read 121894 times)

Recluse

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 639
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #560 on: April 08, 2016, 08:49:24 AM »
No, your efforts to dissuade and create doubt are futile.  I am content and the above verses perfectly clear ? actually beautiful akin to a computer program; then again if one never applies careful logic to each word they may never see it.



I hope one day you will realize that what I said is the truth, it also took me a long time to accept this.

Man of Faith

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 7976
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #561 on: April 08, 2016, 01:51:16 PM »
Recluse,

Of course, the whole concept of inheritance here is stupid and one can see that it is the work of clerics.

When a father and mother have both died then their children will split their parents possessions equally. But when their either mother or father is alive in the flesh then certainly all possessions still remains with the widow as he or she is the other's half.

Not so hard to understand without some kind of scripture. Self-explanatory.

The importance for these clerics and scholars who interpreted Quran with inheritance only shows their Pagan (worldly) view.

One of the passages in which speaks of inheritance in the sectarian interpretation actually speaks about the grand responsibility of getting children and advice concerning it, in the real interpretation.

Be well
Amenuel
Website reference: http://iamthatiam.boards.net

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1836
  • Karma +1/-0
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #562 on: April 08, 2016, 02:47:18 PM »
Thanks for clarifying your understanding.

Per my reading however "إِن كُنَّ نِسَاءً فَوْقَ اثْنَتَيْنِ" translates as "If they are women more than two" rather than "If be women more than two". And the implication is vast.

Peace Arman, it's simple count how many; no difference or implications on distributions and to be more precise...

فان so if كن kunna/be/are (feminine pl.) نساء nisāan/womenfolk فوق fawqa/above اثنتىن ith'natayni/two (feminine dual).

Also like to ask posters to stay on topic; thread is on inheritance verses according to Qur'an not about self doubt, futility, or opinions on how to divide wealth etc., perhaps open different topic, this thread is long enough already...


4:11
Children

ىوصىكم instructs you الله the god فى in اولادكم offspring yours للذكر to the male (i.e. gender) مثل similitude حظ apportion الانثىىن the two (females)

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each) + 1/2 son/s

فان so if كن kunna/be/are (feminine pl.) نساء nisāan/womenfolk فوق fawqa/above اثنتىن two (if 3+ daughters) فلهن so for them (f/p) ثلثا third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) ما what ترك left

2/3 three+ daughters + 1/3 son/s

وان and if كانت kānat/be she (feminine singular) واحده wāhidatan/one (female) فلها so for her النصف the half

1/2 daughter + 1/2 son/s




Parents
ولابوىه and to parents two said person لكل to each واحد one منهما of them dual السدس the sixth مما from what ترك left ان if كان be له for said person ولد offspring

1/6 parent + 5/6 child[ren] {If mixed gender children use ratios to distribute 5/6}
1/3 parents (1/6 each) + 2/3 child[ren]


فان so if لم not ىكن that be له for said person ولد offspring وورثه and inherit said person ابواه parents dual said person (if both parents alive) فلامه so to mother said person الثلث the third

1/3 mother + 2/3 father

فان so if كان be له for said person اخوه ikh'watun/siblings {i.e. 3+ brothers (use 4:12) or 2+ brothers & sister or 1+ brothers & 2+ sisters (use 4:176)} فلامه so to mother said person السدس the sixth

من from بعد after وصىه instruction/will ىوصى instructs بها in it او or دىن judgment
 اباوكم fathers yours وابناوكم and children yours لا not تدرون thou knowing اىهم which of them اقرب closer لكم to you نفعا benefit of فرىضه obligation من from الله the god ان surely الله the god كان be علىما knowledgeable حكىما wisdom of



4:12
Husband

ولكم and for you نصف half ما what ترك left ازواجكم azwājukum/spouses yours ان if لم not ىكن that be لهن for them ولد offspring

1/2 husband + 1/2 parent
1/2 husband + 1/3 mother (4:11) + 1/6 father


فان so if كان be لهن for them ولد offspring فلكم so for you الربع the fourth مما from what تركن left they

1/4 husband + 1/6 parent (4:11) + 7/12 child[ren]
1/4 husband + 1/3 parents (1/6 each 4:11) + 5/12 child[ren]


من from بعد after وصىه instruction/will ىوصىن instructs they بها in it او or دىن judgment


Wife
ولهن and for them الربع the fourth مما from what تركتم left you ان if لم not ىكن that be لكم for you ولد offspring

1/4 wife + 3/4 parent
1/4 wife + 1/3 mother (4:11) + 5/12 father


فان so if كان be لكم for you ولد offspring فلهن so to them الثمن the eight مما from what تركتم left you

1/8 wife + 1/6 parent + 17/24 child[ren]
1/8 wife + 1/3 parents (1/6 each 4:11) + 13/24 child[ren]


من from بعد after وصىه instruction/will توصون thou making بها in it او or دىن judgment

Kalala: single gender sibling/s
وان and if كان be رجل rajulun/man ىورث inherits كلاله kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) او or امراه im'ra-atun/woman وله and to said person اخ brother او or اخت sister فلكل so to each واحد one منهما of them dual السدس the sixth

1/6 brother/sister + 5/6 parent
1/6 brother/sister + 1/3 mother (4:11) + 1/2 father


فان so if كانوا kānū/be they of اكثر more من from ذلك such فهم so they شركاء partners فى in الثلث the third

1/3 two brothers/sisters + 2/3 parent
1/3 two brothers/sisters + 1/3 mother (4:11) + 1/3 father

1/3 three+ sisters + 2/3 parent
1/3 three+ sisters + 1/3 mother (4:11) + 1/3 father

1/3 three+ brothers + 1/6 mother (4:11) + 1/2 father


من from بعد after وصىه instruction/will ىوصى instructs بها in it او or دىن judgment
غىر other than مضار harmful وصىه instruction/will من from الله the god والله and the god علىم knower حلىم tolerant



4:176
Kalala: mixed gender siblings

ىستفتونك seek ruling your قل say الله the god ىفتىكم gives ruling you فى in/concerning الكلاله al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) ان if امرو person هلك perished لىس not is له for said person ولد offspring وله and for said person اخت sister فلها so for her نصف half ما what ترك left وهو and he ىرثها inherits her ان if لم not ىكن that be لها for her ولد offspring

1/2 sister, 1/2 brother/s

فان so if كانتا kānatā/be dual اثنتىن ith'natayni/two (females) فلهما so to them dual الثلثان the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) مما from what ترك left

2/3 two sisters + 1/3 brother/s

وان and if كانوا be they of اخوه ikh'watan/siblings رجالا rijālan/menfolk of ونساء wanisāan/and womenfolk (3+ sisters) فللذكر so to the male مثل similitude حظ apportion الانثىىن al-unthayayni/the two (females)

3/5 three sisters (1/5 each) + 2/5 brother/s
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each) + 1/3 brother/s



1/6 sister + 1/6 brother + 2/3 parent
1/6 sister + 1/6 brother + 1/3 mother (4:11) + 1/3 father

1/6 sister + 1/6 two+ brothers + 2/3 parent
1/6 sister + 1/6 two+ brothers + 1/6 mother (4:11) + 1/2 father

2/9 two sisters (1/9 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 2/3 parent
2/9 two sisters (1/9 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 1/6 mother (4:11) + 1/2 father

1/5 three sisters (1/15 each) + 2/15 brother/s + 2/3 parent
1/5 three sisters (1/15 each) + 2/15 brother/s + 1/6 mother (4:11) + 1/2 father

2/9 four sisters (1/18 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 2/3 parent
2/9 four sisters (1/18 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 1/6 mother (4:11) + 1/2 father


ىبىن shows الله the god لكم for you ان lest تضلوا stray ye of والله and the god بكل in every شىء thing علىم knower








 

Recluse

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 639
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #563 on: April 20, 2016, 08:53:21 AM »
So does anybody here really believe that inheritance "according to the Qur'an" is more just than inheritance law in Sweden, the Netherlands or Germany, for example?

Man of Faith

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 7976
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #564 on: April 21, 2016, 12:11:29 AM »
Not me.
Website reference: http://iamthatiam.boards.net

huruf

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 6501
  • Karma +1/-1
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #565 on: April 21, 2016, 02:10:44 AM »
So does anybody here really believe that inheritance "according to the Qur'an" is more just than inheritance law in Sweden, the Netherlands or Germany, for example?

That implies hat eople here know what the laws of those countries provide and not lessthat they do know what the Qur'an rovides, which obviously is not the same as knowing what the people, whoever says that the Qur'an says. Notto beconfused the Qur'an with what anybody says the Qur'an says.

And not to be forgotten what other laws provide that together with inheritance may in fact turn out in an unfairer or fairer distribution.

Not me.

I am surpried thaxt you do not have here some interretation of the Qur'an of yours that topples all those fantasies about its meanings ther peole have.

Salaam


Man of Faith

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 7976
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #566 on: April 21, 2016, 03:40:17 AM »
Huruf,

I have not yet reached that part yet in the project, albeit once when I was curious I spontaneously deciphered one alleged inheritance verse and I found it spoke about getting children. Details about that will, an sh allah, come in some time.

But it is easy to just reflect logically to see there is absolutely no reason to state some inheritance law as that ought to come clear on its own. I think even an adolescent could work it out.

And I find the weird inheritance claim regarding verses to be unnecessarily confusing for something that simple.

And it seems only to deal with fiscal matter as it clumsily partitions a greater deal to males as if money is all that is worth anything. And I am not buying that the sons have a greater responsibility because the daughters are too married to men who have families with children. The split should be even to be fair.

And if either husband or wife dies then the other will hold the possessions until both are dead and after that the remnants are shared with the children. The wife and husband are as one flesh even through death.

Be well
Amenuel
Website reference: http://iamthatiam.boards.net

Recluse

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 639
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #567 on: April 21, 2016, 04:37:26 AM »
And I am not buying that the sons have a greater responsibility because the daughters are too married to men who have families with children. The split should be even to be fair.

And if either husband or wife dies then the other will hold the possessions until both are dead and after that the remnants are shared with the children. The wife and husband are as one flesh even through death.

Be well
Amenuel

Bingo :)

And the simple reason for that is because the Qur'an is mostly addressing the Arabs of 1400 years ago, it's not addressing any of us here. None of those Qur'anic "laws" have any relation to our own reality in the here and now, but this is extremely hard to accept for those who worship the book and equate that book with God (or God's might) Himself. They think the Qur'an is on the same level as God's knowledge when it's just a book confined by time and space, a certain culture (Arab), history and socio-economic situation. To fundamentalists accepting this simple reality would be equal to disbelief in God Himself (because God = Qur'an = Perfect) and enough to deserve eternal Hellfire. I used to think like that too, but when I learned about alternative views (initially by some Turkish Islamic scholars), I understood that I had been duped and indoctrinated from childhood. 

As the Qur'an says;

"Those who listen to all that is said, and follow the best of it: it is they whom God has graced with His guidance, and it is they who are endowed with insight" [39;18]


Peace,
?zcan

huruf

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 6501
  • Karma +1/-1
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #568 on: April 21, 2016, 05:05:20 AM »
Huruf,

I have not yet reached that part yet in the project, albeit once when I was curious I spontaneously deciphered one alleged inheritance verse and I found it spoke about getting children. Details about that will, an sh allah, come in some time.

But it is easy to just reflect logically to see there is absolutely no reason to state some inheritance law as that ought to come clear on its own. I think even an adolescent could work it out.

And I find the weird inheritance claim regarding verses to be unnecessarily confusing for something that simple.

And it seems only to deal with fiscal matter as it clumsily partitions a greater deal to males as if money is all that is worth anything. And I am not buying that the sons have a greater responsibility because the daughters are too married to men who have families with children. The split should be even to be fair.

And if either husband or wife dies then the other will hold the possessions until both are dead and after that the remnants are shared with the children. The wife and husband are as one flesh even through death.

Be well
Amenuel

Indeedyou questionany inrpretation about the Qur?'an butinthis women less than men you haveswallowed the sectarian abassi intrpretation hook line and sinker. Which femalesget les than males? dughters? No. Sisters?  No.

Where in the Qur'an says that wome inherit jointly any art? they ar all individual parts. Each person its part. The self-interestedmales have brainwahsed people to read what is not there and ignore logic and common understanding. I would haveexpected you who question evrything to see that. But nevermind.If there is only one female daughter he gets half omatter howmany sons, is that unfair? May be it is, may be it is not, it depends a lot on the circumstances, but it4 certainy aves the one woman to live at the mercy of their brothers, for whom she may be not the most important question.

Salaam


Man of Faith

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 7976
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #569 on: April 21, 2016, 06:35:55 AM »
Yes I question nearly everything.

In the common interpretation clearly women have a disadvantage in terms of inheritance.
Website reference: http://iamthatiam.boards.net