Author Topic: Inheritance according to Qur?an  (Read 122889 times)

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1846
  • Karma +2/-0
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #550 on: December 20, 2015, 07:49:51 AM »
After going tru the tread I'm still confuse, before and after.  The short lesson here is: leave a good Will. 

Unfortunately in Malaysia, the sectarians has overruled the Quran and says the faraid (the ones the Malaysian sectarians created not the Quran's) can overrule the Will.  So many God wannabes!  In my case, I pity my children and wife who are all females, given that my wealth is to be administered by my brothers???

Peace haslan, siblings only inherit kalala case -- no spouse/children.
Here's summary, not sure if admins can link to beginning of thread?

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.msg377882#msg377882

Yes best to draft a will 100% then nothing left; if partial will e.g. 50% distribute what left accordingly, etc.

2:180 كتب written/prescribed علىكم on you اذا when حضر comes احدكم any of you الموت the death ان if ترك left خىرا best of الوصىه the instruction/will للوالدىن to the parents dual والاقربىن and the near relatives بالمعروف in the right/fairness حقا duty of على on المتقىن the righteous

Perhaps read sentence at a time let me know which part is confusing or if you have any questions.

Real believers should liberate religion from the clutches of worldly minded petty tyrans.

Salaam huruf,

4:10 ان surely الذىن the ones ىاكلون are eating اموال wealth الىتامى the bereaved ظلما injustice of انما only ىاكلون are eating فى in بطونهم interior body theirs نارا fire of وسىصلون and shall burning سعىرا blaze of


Yes dire consequences punishment in this life and next regardless of wealth; reminds of the poem?

?The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven.? ― John Milton, Paradise Lost

huruf

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 6501
  • Karma +1/-1
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #551 on: December 20, 2015, 10:55:39 AM »
Peace haslan, siblings only inherit kalala case -- no spouse/children.
Here's summary, not sure if admins can link to beginning of thread?

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.msg377882#msg377882

Yes best to draft a will 100% then nothing left; if partial will e.g. 50% distribute what left accordingly, etc.

2:180 كتب written/prescribed علىكم on you اذا when حضر comes احدكم any of you الموت the death ان if ترك left خىرا best of الوصىه the instruction/will للوالدىن to the parents dual والاقربىن and the near relatives بالمعروف in the right/fairness حقا duty of على on المتقىن the righteous

Perhaps read sentence at a time let me know which part is confusing or if you have any questions.

Salaam huruf,

4:10 ان surely الذىن the ones ىاكلون are eating اموال wealth الىتامى the bereaved ظلما injustice of انما only ىاكلون are eating فى in بطونهم interior body theirs نارا fire of وسىصلون and shall burning سعىرا blaze of


Yes dire consequences punishment in this life and next regardless of wealth; reminds of the poem?

?The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven.? ― John Milton, Paradise Lost


Indeed, when a pure person foregoes easy earnings through moral slackness to some he or she may look like an idiot and if the person changes his or her midn because of that she will open hell for herself, but if she keeps his or her purity she will keep heaven.

Salaam

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1846
  • Karma +2/-0
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #552 on: March 27, 2016, 10:41:07 PM »
Wanted to post this summary; not sure if admins can link to beginning of thread save folks time reading?

4:11
Children

ىوصىكم instructs you الله the god فى in اولادكم offspring yours للذكر to the male (i.e. gender) مثل similitude حظ apportion الانثىىن the two (females)

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each) + 1/2 son/s

فان so if كن be نساء nisāan/womenfolk فوق fawqa/above اثنتىن two (if 3+ daughters) فلهن so for them (f/p) ثلثا third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) ما what ترك left

2/3 three+ daughters + 1/3 son/s

وان and if كانت kānat/be she واحده wāhidatan/one (female) فلها so for her النصف the half

1/2 daughter + 1/2 son/s




Parents
ولابوىه and to parents two said person لكل to each واحد one منهما of them dual السدس the sixth مما from what ترك left ان if كان be له for said person ولد offspring

1/6 parent + 5/6 child[ren] {If mixed gender children use ratios to distribute 5/6}
1/3 parents (1/6 each) + 2/3 child[ren]


فان so if لم not ىكن that be له for said person ولد offspring وورثه and inherit said person ابواه parents dual said person (if both parents alive) فلامه so to mother said person الثلث the third

1/3 mother + 2/3 father

فان so if كان be له for said person اخوه ikh'watun/siblings {i.e. 3+ brothers (use 4:12) or 2+ brothers & sister or 1+ brothers & 2+ sisters (use 4:176)} فلامه so to mother said person السدس the sixth

من from بعد after وصىه instruction/will ىوصى instructs بها in it او or دىن judgment
 اباوكم fathers yours وابناوكم and children yours لا not تدرون thou knowing اىهم which of them اقرب closer لكم to you نفعا benefit of فرىضه obligation من from الله the god ان surely الله the god كان be علىما knowledgeable حكىما wisdom of



4:12
Husband

ولكم and for you نصف half ما what ترك left ازواجكم azwājukum/spouses yours ان if لم not ىكن that be لهن for them ولد offspring

1/2 husband + 1/2 parent
1/2 husband + 1/3 mother (4:11) + 1/6 father


فان so if كان be لهن for them ولد offspring فلكم so for you الربع the fourth مما from what تركن left they

1/4 husband + 1/6 parent (4:11) + 7/12 child[ren]
1/4 husband + 1/3 parents (1/6 each 4:11) + 5/12 child[ren]


من from بعد after وصىه instruction/will ىوصىن instructs they بها in it او or دىن judgment


Wife
ولهن and for them الربع the fourth مما from what تركتم left you ان if لم not ىكن that be لكم for you ولد offspring

1/4 wife + 3/4 parent
1/4 wife + 1/3 mother (4:11) + 5/12 father


فان so if كان be لكم for you ولد offspring فلهن so to them الثمن the eight مما from what تركتم left you

1/8 wife + 1/6 parent + 17/24 child[ren]
1/8 wife + 1/3 parents (1/6 each 4:11) + 13/24 child[ren]


من from بعد after وصىه instruction/will توصون thou making بها in it او or دىن judgment

Kalala: single gender sibling/s
وان and if كان be رجل rajulun/man ىورث inherits كلاله kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) او or امراه im'ra-atun/woman وله and to said person اخ brother او or اخت sister فلكل so to each واحد one منهما of them dual السدس the sixth

1/6 brother/sister + 5/6 parent
1/6 brother/sister + 1/3 mother (4:11) + 1/2 father


فان so if كانوا kānū/be they of اكثر more من from ذلك such فهم so they شركاء partners فى in الثلث the third

1/3 two brothers/sisters + 2/3 parent
1/3 two brothers/sisters + 1/3 mother (4:11) + 1/3 father

1/3 three+ sisters + 2/3 parent
1/3 three+ sisters + 1/3 mother (4:11) + 1/3 father

1/3 three+ brothers + 1/6 mother (4:11) + 1/2 father


من from بعد after وصىه instruction/will ىوصى instructs بها in it او or دىن judgment
غىر other than مضار harmful وصىه instruction/will من from الله the god والله and the god علىم knower حلىم tolerant



4:176
Kalala: mixed gender siblings

ىستفتونك seek ruling your قل say الله the god ىفتىكم gives ruling you فى in/concerning الكلاله al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) ان if امرو person هلك perished لىس not is له for said person ولد offspring وله and for said person اخت sister فلها so for her نصف half ما what ترك left وهو and he ىرثها inherits her ان if لم not ىكن that be لها for her ولد offspring

1/2 sister, 1/2 brother/s

فان so if كانتا kānatā/be dual اثنتىن ith'natayni/two (females) فلهما so to them dual الثلثان the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) مما from what ترك left

2/3 two sisters + 1/3 brother/s

وان and if كانوا be they of اخوه ikh'watan/siblings رجالا rijālan/menfolk of ونساء wanisāan/and womenfolk (3+ sisters) فللذكر so to the male مثل similitude حظ apportion الانثىىن al-unthayayni/the two (females)

3/5 three sisters (1/5 each) + 2/5 brother/s
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each) + 1/3 brother/s



1/6 sister + 1/6 brother + 2/3 parent
1/6 sister + 1/6 brother + 1/3 mother (4:11) + 1/3 father

1/6 sister + 1/6 two+ brothers + 2/3 parent
1/6 sister + 1/6 two+ brothers + 1/6 mother (4:11) + 1/2 father

2/9 two sisters (1/9 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 2/3 parent
2/9 two sisters (1/9 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 1/6 mother (4:11) + 1/2 father

1/5 three sisters (1/15 each) + 2/15 brother/s + 2/3 parent
1/5 three sisters (1/15 each) + 2/15 brother/s + 1/6 mother (4:11) + 1/2 father

2/9 four sisters (1/18 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 2/3 parent
2/9 four sisters (1/18 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 1/6 mother (4:11) + 1/2 father


ىبىن shows الله the god لكم for you ان lest تضلوا stray ye of والله and the god بكل in every شىء thing علىم knower




Peace,  عبد الله



Recluse

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 639
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #553 on: April 04, 2016, 09:50:59 AM »
The Qur'an is not a book of civil law, administrative law or criminal law...

I hope one day Muslims will understand that these are completely useless debates  :nope:

When I was a fundamentalist/literalist Qur'an only Muslim, I had tons of different tafsirs and Qur'an translations on my shelves (still have some) and was constantly trying to figure out what the magical "true meanings" of Qur'an verses were. This is a complete dead-end. These "efforts" will never solve any problems, they will never lead to anything positive in any society. They will not bring more justice or peace to Muslim countries (on the contrary). It has absolutely no benefit whatsoever to anyone anywhere. Also, without historical context there is no meaning.. Qur'an only Muslims are deceiving themselves without knowing to make the Qur'an more "palatable". It's a very innocent and naive attempt but faulty....

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1846
  • Karma +2/-0
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #554 on: April 04, 2016, 03:32:03 PM »
I hope one day Muslims will understand that these are completely useless debates  :nop
Peace ? was there something that needs further clarification or only posting due to frustration?
Inheritance verses require logical reasoning teach to look at all related if then else statements.

Recluse

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 639
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #555 on: April 05, 2016, 03:50:17 AM »
Peace ? was there something that needs further clarification or only posting due to frustration?
Inheritance verses require logical reasoning teach to look at all related if then else statements.


Your efforts are futile, that's what I'm saying.

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1846
  • Karma +2/-0
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #556 on: April 05, 2016, 09:04:13 PM »
Your efforts are futile, that's what I'm saying.

No, your efforts to dissuade and create doubt are futile.  I am content and the above verses perfectly clear ? actually beautiful akin to a computer program; then again if one never applies careful logic to each word they may never see it.

Arman

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 715
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #557 on: April 06, 2016, 01:54:13 AM »
Brother Noon:

We had this discussions before. I still hold that the inheritance rules in Qur'an can be implemented in several ways with some core principles being hard-coded. The society has the flexibility to implement within these guiding principles. I view your interpretation as one of the several potential plausible interpretations but not the only possible option.

However just to highlight a possible confusion from the above summary.. what is your suggested distribution for 10 sons and 4 daughters assuming no other beneficiaries? Are you suggesting sons would get 1/30 each and daughters 1/6 each? That is what your second chart means for me.

Regards,
Arman
Indeed I have faced my face to the One who farmed the heavens and the earth in precision; and I do not happen to be among the ones associating partners (with Him).

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1846
  • Karma +2/-0
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #558 on: April 07, 2016, 06:24:29 PM »
Brother Noon:

We had this discussions before. I still hold that the inheritance rules in Qur'an can be implemented in several ways with some core principles being hard-coded. The society has the flexibility to implement within these guiding principles. I view your interpretation as one of the several potential plausible interpretations but not the only possible option.

Peace Arman, one can write a will hence there is the flexibility, otherwise one cannot make stuff up according to what they think it should read and likewise whatever they propose needs to be consist and not contradicting for each of the numerous combinations as in the above examples.

However just to highlight a possible confusion from the above summary.. what is your suggested distribution for 10 sons and 4 daughters assuming no other beneficiaries? Are you suggesting sons would get 1/30 each and daughters 1/6 each? That is what your second chart means for me.

Yes, no confusion it's clearly written...
4:11 ... فان so if كن be نساء nisāan/womenfolk فوق fawqa/above اثنتىن two (if 3+ daughters) فلهن so for them (f/p) ثلثا third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) ما what ترك left

Arman

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 715
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #559 on: April 07, 2016, 08:34:26 PM »
Peace Arman, one can write a will hence there is the flexibility, otherwise one cannot make stuff up according to what they think it should read and likewise whatever they propose needs to be consist and not contradicting for each of the numerous combinations as in the above examples.

Yes, no confusion it's clearly written...
4:11 ... فان so if كن be نساء nisāan/womenfolk فوق fawqa/above اثنتىن two (if 3+ daughters) فلهن so for them (f/p) ثلثا third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) ما what ترك left

Thanks for clarifying your understanding.

Per my reading however "إِن كُنَّ نِسَاءً فَوْقَ اثْنَتَيْنِ" translates as "If they are women more than two" rather than "If be women more than two". And the implication is vast.

Best regards,
Arman
Indeed I have faced my face to the One who farmed the heavens and the earth in precision; and I do not happen to be among the ones associating partners (with Him).