Author Topic: Inheritance according to Qur?an  (Read 122891 times)

McKenna36

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Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #540 on: October 22, 2015, 07:29:49 AM »
4:11 ىوصىكم yūṣīkumu/instructs you الله the god فى in/concerning اولادكم awlādikum/offspring yours للذكر lildhakari/to the male مثل similitude حظ apportion الانثىىن al-unthayayni/the two (f/d) فان so if كن kunna/be (f/p) نساء nisāan/womenfolk (daughters) فوق fawqa/above اثنتىن ith'natayni/two (f) فلهن falahunna/so for them (f/p) ثلثا  thuluthā/third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) ما what ترك left وان and if كانت kānat/be she (f/s) واحده wāḥidatan/one (f/s) فلها so for her (i.e. daughter) النصف al-niṣ'fu/the half ولابوىه wali-abawayhi/and to parents two said person لكل to each واحد one منهما of them dual السدس the sixth مما of what ترك left ان if كان be له for said person ولد waladun/offspring فان so if لم not ىكن that be له for said person ولد waladun/offspring وورثه and inherit said person ابواه abawāhu/parents dual said person (if both parents are alive) فلامه so to mother said person الثلث the third فان so if كان be له for said person اخوه sibling فلامه so to mother said person السدس the sixth من from بعد after وصىه instruction/will ىوصى instructs بها in it او or دىن judgment اباوكم fathers yours وابناوكم wa-abnāukum/and children yours لا not تدرون thou knowing اىهم which of them اقرب closer لكم to you نفعا benefit of فرىضه obligation من from الله the god ان surely الله the god كان be علىما knowledgeable حكىما wisdom of

4:12 ولكم and for you نصف half ما what ترك left ازواجكم azwājukum/spouses yours ان if لم not ىكن that be لهن for them (f/p) ولد waladun/offspring فان so if كان be لهن for them ولد waladun/offspring فلكم so for you الربع the fourth مما of what تركن left they (f/p) من from بعد after وصىه instruction/will ىوصىن instructs they (f/p) بها in it او or دىن judgment ولهن and for them الربع the fourth مما of what تركتم left you ان if لم not ىكن that be لكم for you ولد waladun/offspring فان so if كان be لكم for you ولد waladun/offspring فلهن so to them الثمن the eight مما of what تركتم left you من from بعد after وصىه instruction/will توصون thou making بها in it او or دىن judgment وان and if كان be رجل rajulun/man ىورث inherits كلاله kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) او or امراه im'ra-atun/woman وله and to said person اخ brother او or اخت ukh'tun/sister فلكل so to each واحد one منهما of them dual السدس the sixth فان so if كانوا be they of اكثر more من from ذلك such فهم so they شركاء partners فى in الثلث the third من from بعد after وصىه instruction/will ىوصى instructs بها in it او or دىن judgment غىر other than مضار harmful وصىه instruction/will من from الله the god والله and the god علىم knower حلىم tolerant

4:176 ىستفتونك seek ruling your قل say الله the god ىفتىكم gives ruling you فى in/concerning الكلاله al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) ان if امرو person هلك perished لىس not is له for said person ولد waladun/offspring وله and for said person اخت ukh'tun/sister فلها so for her نصف half ما what ترك left وهو and he ىرثها inherits her ان if لم not ىكن that be لها for her ولد waladun/offspring فان so if كانتا kānatā/be dual اثنتىن ith'natayni/two (i.e. exactly two sisters) فلهما falahumā/so to them dual (f/d) الثلثان al-thuluthāni/the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) مما of what ترك left وان and if كانوا be they of اخوه ikh'watan/siblings رجالا rijālan/menfolk of ونساء wanisāan/and womenfolk (3+ sisters) فللذكر falildhakari/so to the male مثل similitude حظ apportion الانثىىن al-unthayayni/the two (f) ىبىن shows الله the god لكم for you ان lest تضلوا stray ye of والله and the god بكل in every شىء thing علىم knower


Sorry Noon waalqalami that I am such a pain in the ass but I really want to understand it and I still don't get your explanation.

Quote
فان so if كن kunna/be (f/p) نساء nisāan/womenfolk (daughters) فوق fawqa/above اثنتىن ith'natayni/two (f) فلهن falahunna/so for them (f/p) ثلثا  thuluthā/third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) ما what ترك left

So three daughters are to be given 2/3 of the inheritance.

Quote
ولابوىه wali-abawayhi/and to parents two said person لكل to each واحد one منهما of them dual السدس the sixth مما of what ترك left ان if كان be له for said person ولد waladun/offspring

So parents get 1/3 of inheritance since there are offsprings(3 daughters)

Quote
فان so if كان be لكم for you ولد waladun/offspring فلهن so to them الثمن the eight مما of what تركتم left you من from بعد after وصىه instruction/will

So if there is wife(and there are children) she should get 1/8 of inheritance.

All those sums up to 9/8. More than one. So where is my misunderstanding? I cannot get your explanation no matter how many times i read that.


Noon waalqalami

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Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #541 on: October 22, 2015, 06:45:42 PM »
Sorry Noon waalqalami that I am such a pain in the ass but I really want to understand it and I still don't get your explanation.

OK

So three daughters are to be given 2/3 of the inheritance.

Yes in relation to males/sons e.g.

4:11 ىوصىكم yūṣīkumu/instructs you الله the god فى in/concerning اولادكم awlādikum/offspring yours
للذكر to the male مثل similitude حظ apportion الانثىىن the two (feminine dual)


To apply above need 2+ daughters and 1+ sons (i.e. cannot be applied to 1 daughter and 1+ sons).

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 son
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)


فان so if كن be (f/p) نساء nisāan/womenfolk (3+) فوق above اثنتىن two (f/d)
فلهن so for them (f/p) ثلثا third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) ما what ترك left


2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 son
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)


وان and if كانت kānat/be she (f/s) واحده wāhidatan/one (f/s) فلها so for her النصف the half

1/2 daughter, 1/2 son
1/2 daughter, 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 daughter, 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)


Hence have all information to distribute any combination of daughter/s + son/s.

So parents get 1/3 of inheritance since there are offsprings(3 daughters)

Yes.

So if there is wife(and there are children) she should get 1/8 of inheritance.

Yes.

All those sums up to 9/8. More than one. So where is my misunderstanding? I cannot get your explanation no matter how many times i read that.

No.

1 - {1/8 wife + 1/3 parents (1/6 each)} = 13/24 to child/children
(if mixed gender children then use 4:11 above to distribute 13/24)

13/24 * 2/3 = 13/36 three daughters
13/24 * 1/3 = 13/72 son/s

Clear?

McKenna36

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Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #542 on: October 23, 2015, 03:52:11 AM »
Thanks for your reply. I got your explanation now. However I still have questions; why do you claim that 2/3(of 2+ daugthers inheritage) is ratio to male inheritage and not a 2/3 of whole inheritage?

Quote
so for them (f/p) ثلثا  thuluthā/third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) ما what ترك left

This part implies it's 2/3 of the whole and not a ratio to male. Very same word is used is used more like here:

Quote
ولابوىه wali-abawayhi/and to parents two said person لكل to each واحد one منهما of them dual السدس the sixth مما of what ترك left

Quote
ولكم and for you نصف half ما what ترك left

And many times more.

Noon waalqalami

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Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #543 on: October 23, 2015, 12:01:19 PM »
Thanks for your reply. I got your explanation now. However I still have questions; why do you claim that 2/3(of 2+ daugthers inheritage) is ratio to male inheritage and not a 2/3 of whole inheritage?

This part implies it's 2/3 of the whole and not a ratio to male. Very same word is used is used more like here

Peace McKenna36, you are welcome and thank you for the questions perhaps it will help everyone.

It?s not 2+ daughters ? it's over two i.e. when 3+ daughters.

فان so if كن be (f/p) نساء nisāan/womenfolk فوق above اثنتىن two (f/d)
فلهن so for them (f/p) ثلثا third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) ما what ترك left


An Arabic-English Lexicon: By Edward William Lane
thus one says, العَشَرَةُ فَوْقَ التِّسْعَةِ i. e. Ten is above nine; meaning ten exceeds nine.

It's a ratio of females to males not only females else no instructions for exactly two?

Read in context think of it as computer program: daughters (2, 3+, and 1) + son/s.

4:11 ىوصىكم yūsīkumu/instructs you الله the god فى in اولادكم awlādikum/offspring yours

(Start case children)
للذكر lildhakari/to the male مثل similitude حظ apportion الانثىىن al-unthayayni/the two (f/d)

          فان ELSE IF كن kunna/be (f/p) نساء nisāan/womenfolk (daughters) فوق fawqa/above اثنتىن two (f)
          فلهن falahunna/so for them (f/p) ثلثا  thuluthā/third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) ما what ترك left

          وان AND IF كانت kānat/be she (f/s) واحده wāhidatan/one (f/s) فلها so for her النصف the half

(End case children)

Likewise ratio mixed gender siblings 4:176 not 1 and 2 sisters else where's 3+ sisters?
Likewise if sole sister does she get the 1/6 per verse 4:12 or the 1/2 per verse 4:176?

Here is a summary again, read carefully the precise wording fixed/variable from whole.

4:11
To children
ىوصىكم yūṣīkumu/instructs you الله the god فى in/concerning اولادكم awlādikum/offspring yours للذكر lildhakari/to the male مثل similitude حظ apportion الانثىىن al-unthayayni/the two (f/d)

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 son
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

فان so if كن kunna/be (f/p) نساء nisāan/womenfolk فوق fawqa/above اثنتىن ith'natayni/two (f) فلهن so for them (f/p) ثلثا  thuluthā/third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) ما mā/what ترك left

2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 son
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 son
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

وان and if كانت kānat/be she (f/s) واحده wāhidatan/one (f/s) فلها so for her النصف the half

1/2 daughter, 1/2 son
1/2 daughter, 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 daughter, 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

To parents
ولابوىه wali-abawayhi/and to parents two said person لكل to each واحد one منهما min'humā/of them dual السدس the sixth مما mimmā/of what ترك left ان if كان be له for said person ولد waladun/offspring

1 ? 1/3 parents (fixed 1/6 each) = 2/3 child/children (if mixed gender children use ratio females to males above to distribute 2/3)

فان so if لم not ىكن that be له for said person ولد waladun/offspring وورثه and inherit said person ابواه parents dual said person (i.e. if both parents are alive) فلامه so to mother said person الثلث the third

1 ? 1/3 mother (fixed) = 2/3 father (variable)

فان so if كان be له for said person اخوه sibling فلامه so to mother said person السدس the sixth

1 ? 1/6 mother (fixed) ? 1/6 sibling (fixed 4:12) = 2/3 father (variable)

من min/from بعد after وصىه instruction/will ىوصى instructs بها in it او or دىن judgment

 اباوكم fathers yours وابناوكم wa-abnāukum/and children yours لا not تدرون thou knowing اىهم which of them اقرب closer لكم to you نفعا benefit of فرىضه obligation من from الله the god ان surely الله the god كان be علىما knowledgeable حكىما wisdom of


4:12
To husband
ولكم and for you نصف half ما mā/what ترك left ازواجكم azwājukum/spouses yours ان if لم not ىكن that be لهن for them (f/p) ولد waladun/offspring

1 ? 1/2 husband (fixed) = 1/2 parent/s (1/2*1/3 = 1/6 mother fixed 4:11 + 1/3 father (variable))

فان so if كان be لهن for them ولد waladun/offspring فلكم so for you الربع the fourth مما mimmā/of what تركن left they

1 ? 1/4 husband (fixed) ? 1/3 parents (1/6 each fixed 4:11) = 5/12 child/children (if mixed use ratio 4:11)

من min/from بعد after وصىه instruction/will ىوصىن instructs they بها in it او or دىن judgment

To wife
ولهن and for them الربع the fourth مما mimmā/of what تركتم left you ان if لم not ىكن that be لكم for you ولد waladun/offspring

1 ? 1/4 wife (fixed) = 3/4 parent/s (3/4*1/3 = 1/4 mother (fixed 4:11) + 1/2 father (variable)

 فان so if كان be لكم for you ولد waladun/offspring فلهن so to them الثمن the eight مما mimmā/of what تركتم left you

1 ? 1/8 wife (fixed) ? 1/3 parents (1/6 each fixed 4:11) = 7/12 child/children (if mixed use ratio 4:11)

من min/from بعد after وصىه instruction/will توصون thou making بها in it او or دىن judgment

Kalala case (i.e. no spouse; single gender siblings
وان and if كان be رجل rajulun/man ىورث inherits كلاله kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) او or امراه im'ra-atun/woman وله and to said person اخ brother او or اخت ukh'tun/sister فلكل so to each واحد one منهما of them dual السدس the sixth

1 ? 1/6 sibling = 5/6 parent (variable; both parents not alive)
1 ? 1/6 sibling = 5/6 parents (1/6 mother (fixed 4:11) + 2/3 father (variable))

فان so if كانوا kānū/be they of اكثر more من from ذلك such فهم so they شركاء partners فى in الثلث the third

1 ? 1/3 siblings = 2/3 parent (varialbe, both parents not alive)
1 ? 1/3 siblings = 2/3 parents (1/6 mother (fixed 4:11) + 1/2 father (variable))

من min/from بعد after وصىه instruction/will ىوصى instructs بها in it او or دىن judgment
 غىر other than مضار harmful وصىه instruction/will من from الله the god والله and the god علىم knower حلىم tolerant


Kalala case mixed gender siblings
4:176 ىستفتونك seek ruling your قل say الله the god ىفتىكم gives ruling you فى in/concerning الكلاله al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) ان if امرو person هلك perished لىس not is له for said person ولد waladun/offspring وله and for said person اخت ukh'tun/sister فلها so for her نصف half ما mā/what ترك left وهو and he ىرثها inherits her ان if لم not ىكن that be لها for her ولد waladun/offspring

1/2 sister, 1/2 brother
1/2 sister, 1/2 two brothers (1/4 each)
1/2 sister, 1/2 three brothers (1/6 each)

IF parent
1 - 2/3 parent (variable) = 1/3 siblings (1/3*1/2 = 1/6 sister + 1/6 brother/s)

IF both parents alive
1 - 2/3 parents {1/6 mother (fixed 4:11) + 1/2 father} = 1/3 siblings (see above)

فان so if كانتا kānatā/be dual اثنتىن ith'natayni/two (i.e. exactly two sisters) فلهما so to them dual (f/d) الثلثان the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) مما mimmā/of what ترك left

2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 brother
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)

IF parent
1 - 2/3 parent (variable) = 1/3 siblings {1/3*2/3 = 2/9 two sisters (1/9 each) + 1/6 brother/s}

IF both parents alive
1 - 2/3 parents (1/6 mother (fixed 4:11) + 1/2 father) = 1/3 siblings (see above)

وان and if كانوا be they of اخوه ikh'watan/siblings رجالا rijālan/menfolk of ونساء wanisāan/and womenfolk (3+ sisters) فللذكر falildhakari/so to the male مثل similitude حظ apportion الانثىىن al-unthayayni/the two (f)

3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 brother
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 two brothers (1/5 each)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 three brothers (2/15 each)

2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 brother
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)

IF parent
1 - 2/3 parent (variable) = 1/3 siblings {1/3*3/5 = 1/5 three sisters (1/15 each) + 2/15 brother/s}

IF both parents alive
1 - 2/3 parents (1/6 mother (fixed 4:11) + 1/2 father) = 1/3 siblings (see above)

ىبىن shows الله the god لكم for you ان lest تضلوا stray ye of والله and the god بكل in every شىء thing علىم knower

Noon waalqalami

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Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #544 on: October 25, 2015, 09:06:26 PM »
Peace, correction 4:11 ikh'watun (3+ plural; at least 1 male) changes distribution to mother (siblings and parents).

4:11
To children
ىوصىكم yūṣīkumu/instructs you الله the god فى in/concerning اولادكم awlādikum/offspring yours للذكر lildhakari/to the male مثل similitude حظ apportion الانثىىن al-unthayayni/the two (f/d)

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 son
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

فان so if كن kunna/be (f/p) نساء nisāan/womenfolk فوق fawqa/above اثنتىن ith'natayni/two (f) فلهن so for them (f/p) ثلثا thuluthā/third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) ما mā/what ترك left

2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 son
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 son
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

وان and if كانت kānat/be she (f/s) واحده wāhidatan/one (f/s) فلها so for her النصف the half

1/2 daughter, 1/2 son
1/2 daughter, 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 daughter, 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

To parents
ولابوىه wali-abawayhi/and to parents two said person لكل to each واحد one منهما min'humā/of them dual السدس the sixth مما mimmā/from what ترك left ان if كان be له for said person ولد waladun/offspring

1 ? 1/6 parent = 5/6 child/children
1 ? 1/3 parents (1/6 each) = 2/3 child/children

If mixed gender children use ratio females to males above to distribute 2/3
1/3 two daughters (1/6 each) + 1/3 son/s
2/3*2/3 = 4/9 three daughters (4/27 each) + 2/9 son/s
2/3*1/2 = 1/3 daughter + 1/3 son/s

فان so if لم not ىكن that be له for said person ولد waladun/offspring وورثه and inherit said person ابواه parents dual said person (i.e. if both parents are alive) فلامه so to mother said person الثلث the third

1/3 mother + 2/3 father

فان so if كان kāna/be له for said person اخوه ikh'watun/siblings (plural i.e. 3+ brothers (see 4:12), 2+ brothers & sister, 1+ brother/s & 2+ sisters (see 4:176)) فلامه so to mother said person السدس the sixth

من min/from بعد after وصىه instruction/will ىوصى instructs بها in it او or دىن judgment

 اباوكم fathers yours وابناوكم wa-abnāukum/and children yours لا not تدرون thou knowing اىهم which of them اقرب closer لكم to you نفعا benefit of فرىضه obligation من from الله the god ان surely الله the god كان be علىما knowledgeable حكىما wisdom of


4:12
To husband
ولكم and for you نصف half ما mā/what ترك left ازواجكم azwājukum/spouses yours ان if لم not ىكن that be لهن for them (f/p) ولد waladun/offspring

1/2 husband + 1/2 parent/s (1/2*1/3 = 1/6 mother (4:11) + 1/3 father)

فان so if كان be لهن for them ولد waladun/offspring فلكم so for you الربع the fourth مما mimmā/from what تركن left they

1/4 husband + 1/6 parent (4:11) + 7/12 child/children (if mixed gender use female to male ratio 4:11)
1/4 husband + 1/3 parents (1/6 each 4:11) + 5/12 child/children

من min/from بعد after وصىه instruction/will ىوصىن instructs they بها in it او or دىن judgment

To wife
ولهن and for them الربع the fourth مما mimmā/from what تركتم left you ان if لم not ىكن that be لكم for you ولد waladun/offspring

1/4 wife + 3/4 parent/s (1/3 mother (4:11) + 5/12 father)

فان so if كان be لكم for you ولد waladun/offspring فلهن so to them الثمن the eight مما mimmā/from what تركتم left you

1 - 1/8 wife ? 1/6 parent = 17/24 child/children (if mixed gender children use ratio 4:11)
1 - 1/8 wife ? 1/3 parents (1/6 each 4:11) = 13/24 child/children

من min/from بعد after وصىه instruction/will توصون thou making بها in it او or دىن judgment

Kalala case (i.e. no spouse; no child) single gender sibling/s
وان and if كان be رجل rajulun/man ىورث inherits كلاله kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) او or امراه im'ra-atun/woman وله and to said person اخ brother او or اخت ukh'tun/sister فلكل so to each واحد one منهما of them dual السدس the sixth

1/6 brother/sister + 5/6 parent/s (5/6*1/3 = 5/18 mother (4:11) + 5/9 father)

فان so if كانوا kānū/be they of اكثر more من from ذلك such فهم so they شركاء partners فى in الثلث the third

1/3 two brothers/sisters + 2/3 parent/s (2/3*1/3 = 2/9 mother (4:11) + 4/9 father)
1/3 three+ sisters + 2/3 parent/s (2/3*1/3 = 2/9 mother (4:11) + 4/9 father)
1/3 three+ brothers + 1/6 mother (4:11) + 1/2 father

من min/from بعد after وصىه instruction/will ىوصى instructs بها in it او or دىن judgment

 غىر other than مضار harmful وصىه instruction/will من from الله the god والله and the god علىم knower حلىم tolerant


Kalala case mixed gender siblings
4:176 ىستفتونك seek ruling your قل say الله the god ىفتىكم gives ruling you فى in/concerning الكلاله al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) ان if امرو person هلك perished لىس not is له for said person ولد waladun/offspring وله and for said person اخت ukh'tun/sister فلها so for her نصف half ما mā/what ترك left وهو and he ىرثها inherits her ان if لم not ىكن that be لها for her ولد waladun/offspring

1/2 sister, 1/2 brother
1/2 sister, 1/2 two brothers (1/4 each)
1/2 sister, 1/2 three brothers (1/6 each)

1/3 (1/2*1/3 = 1/6 sister + 1/6 brother) + 2/3 parent/s (2/9 mother (4:11) + 4/9 father)
1/3 (1/2*1/3 = 1/6 sister + 1/6 two+ brothers) + 2/3 parent/s (1/6 mother (4:11) + 1/2 father)

فان so if كانتا kānatā/be dual اثنتىن ith'natayni/two (i.e. exactly two sisters) فلهما so to them dual (f/d) الثلثان the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) مما mimmā/from what ترك left

1 - 2/3 two sisters (1/3 each) = 1/3 brother
1 - 2/3 two sisters (1/3 each) = 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
1 - 2/3 two sisters (1/3 each) = 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)

1/3 (2/3*1/3 = 2/9 two sisters (1/9 each) + 1/6 brother) + 2/3 parent/s (1/6 mother (4:11) + 1/2 father)

وان and if كانوا be they of اخوه ikh'watan/siblings رجالا rijālan/menfolk of ونساء wanisāan/and womenfolk (3+ sisters) فللذكر falildhakari/so to the male مثل similitude حظ apportion الانثىىن al-unthayayni/the two (f)

3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 brother
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 two brothers (1/5 each)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 three brothers (2/15 each)

2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 brother
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)

1/3 siblings (1/3*3/5 = 1/5 three sisters (1/15 each) + 2/15 brother/s) + 2/3 parent/s (1/6 mother (4:11) + 1/2 father)

ىبىن shows الله the god لكم for you ان lest تضلوا stray ye of والله and the god بكل in every شىء thing علىم knower

McKenna36

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Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #545 on: October 26, 2015, 08:02:54 AM »
Thank you Noon waalqalami. I really liked your explanation because this "error" was what kept me in distance the most in the whole Quran. If I'll ever be in paradise that will be thanks to you. Although i still have some questions:

1) what does "ما what ترك left" stands for in the line for situation when there are above two girls. It's also used in other verses and there it stands for inheritage, not ratio.

2) What is exactly meaning of "فان " at the beginning of the same line mentioned before? Is it exactly "else if"? I couldn't find meaning in internet(I cannot really find good arabic dictionary online for studying Quran)

3) "للذكر lildhakari/to the male " Is singular isn't it? I wonder if your division is right. It seems to be not practical nor just that if you have a lot of brothers then you take less than your sister. I guess Quran commands to be more inherited by boys due to the fact that in actually all the societies man is main provider of family. Woman takes dowry and isn't obligated(as man is) to provide for partner. So what i think is that Quran might propose just ratio(with the example of one son) and we should follow it, no matter how many children there are. So it would look like that:
x-number of girls
y-number of boys

x=<2y then each girl will take half of what a boy get
x>2y then all the girls will get 2/3 of what boys get
-------------
1 son:
1,2 sisters -> each get half of what son got
3,4,5.... sisters -> they get 2/3 of what son got
------------
2 sons:
1,2,3,4 sisters -> each get half of what one son got
5,6,7,8...... sisters  -> they get 2/3 of what sons got
------------
3 sons:
1,2,3,4,5,6 sisters -> each get half of what one son got
7,8,9,10,11,12...... sisters -> they get 2/3 of what sons got

etc.

OR(I don't know which one due to my language but both makes sense)

x-number of girls
y-number of boys

x=<2y then each girl will take half of what a boy get
x>2y then all the girls will get twice(2/3 for girls, 1/3 for boys) of what boys get
-------------
1 son:
1,2 sisters -> each get half of what son got
3,4,5.... sisters -> they get twice of what son got
------------
2 sons:
1,2,3,4 sisters -> each get half of what one son got
5,6,7,8...... sisters -> they get twice of what sons got
------------
3 sons:
1,2,3,4,5,6 sisters -> each get half of what one son got
7,8,9,10,11,12...... sisters -> they get twice of what sons got

etc.


If "للذكر lildhakari/to the male" is singular then Quran if fact depicts only one situation; when there is one boy and depending on how many sisters he has Quran says how we should divide money. With this example of justly* division we can divide money to children in any situation(with formula given above). And the spirit, logic etc. of Quran's example is kept. Your proposition on the other hand looks kind of like an arbitrary formula and it's hard to find why it's look like that(instead of just giving every children same money if in some situations girl takes more and in some boys). And then again I don't know arabic so maybe my proposition is just wrong.

* Some might argue that giving more to boys than girls is unjust but as we see in situation with one son for God it is just indeed. And I kind of agree with that. In almost all societies during all history(including today's western Europe) man is the one financially resposible for family and and that's why he would get more. I guess that's just human nature and that's why God commands so. It's hard to marry for a poor man in poor societies but woman usually don't have such problems no matter of their wealth. So man's money would somehow crucial for the wealth of family and woman's money would be an "extra income". So by God's command in more than 60% of situations just decision is giving a boy twice as many as to girl. However sometimes among sibling girls might be overrepresented(more than twice the number of the boys) and then "minimum" inheritage is saved(because no difference if there are 3 sisters or 10) for the boy(money with which he is obligated to provide for family) and girls need to share what's left for them. If there would be 1 brother and 10 sisters, the man would get almost nothing even though he is financially responsible for his family, doesn't get any dowry etc.

I know it wouldn't be popular among feminists but there are things I don't like neither in Quran but God knows best.

huruf

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Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #546 on: October 26, 2015, 08:53:36 AM »
That is what the traditional misuse of the Qur'an by muslims malists societies has sold as justification for heating females out of the right to inherit fully from their parents. But it is purely invention. Not all by far males are responsible financially, we know all perfectly well that when a woman works at home she is also being financially responsible, or not? What you are in fact saying is that officially the earnings have been all directed tomale hands, not that male hands hve earned them.

On he other hand, that financial responsibility is because men do not breed the children, so for something they do not do they should also be alloted extra inheritance. What a joke!

Not to speak either of those males that dissapear, or are toolazy or not lazy but out of job, or those women that are alone with children...

God isnot malist, but those who have twisted his words, have made of God a servant to them, something which is really shocking.

Salaam

Noon waalqalami

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Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #547 on: October 27, 2015, 01:25:19 PM »
Thank you Noon waalqalami. I really liked your explanation because this "error" was what kept me in distance the most in the whole Quran. If I'll ever be in paradise that will be thanks to you. Although i still have some questions:

1) what does "ما what ترك left" stands for in the line for situation when there are above two girls. It's also used in other verses and there it stands for inheritage, not ratio.

Peace McKenna36, you're welcome.

What left/remains whereas from whole to parents/husband/wife/kalala case single gender siblings follows...
من min/from بعد after وصىه instruction/will ىوصى instructs بها in it او or دىن judgment

Quote
2) What is exactly meaning of "فان " at the beginning of the same line mentioned before? Is it exactly "else if"? I couldn't find meaning in internet(I cannot really find good arabic dictionary online for studying Quran)

70+ examples and in this context similar to "else if" statement in programming.

2:24 فان so if/in addition if/else if لم laam/not تفعلوا thou do ye of ولن and never تفعلوا thou do ye of فاتقوا so fear ye of النار the fire التى the one وقودها and fuel its الناس the humankind والحجاره and the stone اعدت prepared للكافرىن for the skeptics

Quote
3) "للذكر lildhakari/to the male " Is singular isn't it? I wonder if your division is right.

it's applicable 4:11 lildhakari/to the male gender

Likewise Kalala case mixed gender siblings conditional IF given covers 1+ males and 3+ females.

4:176 وان and if كانوا be they of اخوه ikh'watan رجالا rijālan ونساء wanisāan/and womenfolk (3+)
فللذكر falildhakari/so to the male مثل similitude حظ apportion الانثىىن al-unthayayni/the two (females)


one
3:195, 4:124, 16:97, 40:40, 49:13 dhakarin/male ... wa-untha/and female
 
3:36 فلما so when وضعتها delivered her قالت said she رب lord انى that I وضعتها delivered her انثى untha/female والله and the god اعلم of knowledge بما in what وضعت delivered ولىس and not is الذكر al-dhakaru/the male كالانثى kal-unthā/as the female وانى and that I سمىتها named her مرىم Maryam وانى and that I اعىذها seek refuge for her بك in you وذرىتها and progeny hers من from الشىطان the devil الرجىم the accursed

53:21 al-dhakaru/the male ... al-untha/the female
53:45, 75:39, 92:3 al-dhakara/the male ... wal-untha/and the female

exactly two
6:143, 6:144 aldhakarayni/the males two ... al-unthayayni/the females two (likewise 4:11, 4:176)
 
three+
6:139 lidhukurina/to males ours
26:165 al-dhuk'rana/the males
 
42:49 al-dhukura/the males ... inathan/females
42:50 dhuk'ranan/males ... wa-inathan/and females


hanslan

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Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #548 on: December 16, 2015, 06:33:29 PM »
Peace All

After going tru the tread I'm still confuse, before and after.  The short lesson here is: leave a good Will. 

Unfortunately in Malaysia, the sectarians has overruled the Quran and says the faraid (the ones the Malaysian sectarians created not the Quran's) can overrule the Will.  So many God wannabes!  In my case, I pity my children and wife who are all females, given that my wealth is to be administered by my brothers???

Peace.


huruf

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Re: Inheritance according to Qur?an
« Reply #549 on: December 17, 2015, 02:34:07 AM »
It is very wicked that the malist tyrany has snatched the religion to make it its instrument, because after that any who wants justice will be forced to attack religion, and inded they may feelinclined to do so,becuse if rligion comes insistently in the form of injustice it will be indeed very sincerely rejected.

Real believers should liberate religion from the clutches of worldly minded petty tyrans.

Salam