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Inheritance according to Qur?an

Started by Noon waalqalami, July 04, 2012, 02:45:51 PM

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Mazhar

QuoteMazhar, you are a moron! Your reading is wrong! We know these heirs exist!

Who denies their existance? The only thing that you are not allowing to enter your brain is that they exist not in isolation somewhere unknown place, but exist alongwith others becoming plural beneficiaries as is declared by Allah the Exalted.

You are ignoring Verses of Qur'aan deliberately as if they were not the part of speech on Inheritance. Rk had also done this while juggling with digits.
[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

Noon waalqalami

Quote from: Mazhar on August 25, 2012, 08:52:48 AM
Who denies their existance?

You are! Totally misreading the verse attributing your stupidity and ignorance to Qur'an!

Now distribute below inheritance admit your error or you can choose to run away like a coward!

mother, father
mother, son
mother, daughter
mother, sister
mother, brother
mother, wife
mother, husband
father, son
father, daughter
father, sister
father, brother
father, wife
father, husband
son, daughter
son, sister
son, brother
son, wife
son, husband
daughter, sister
daughter, brother
daughter, wife
daughter, husband
sister, brother
sister, wife
sister, husband
brother, wife
brother, husband

Mazhar

QuoteYou are! Totally misreading the verse attributing your stupidity and ignorance to Qur'an!

If I am misreading it, you please educate me how you correctly read it and share your knowledgable understanding of its perception.

وَلِكُلٍّ جَعَلْنَا مَوَالِيَ مِمَّا تَرَكَ الْوَالِدَانِ وَالْأَقْرَبُونَ

وَالَّذِينَ عَقَدَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ فَآتُوهُمْ نَصِيبَهُمْ


I will be obliged.
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Noon waalqalami

Quote from: Mazhar on August 25, 2012, 06:11:26 PM
If I am misreading it, you please educate me how you correctly read it and share your knowledgable understanding of its perception.

وَلِكُلٍّ جَعَلْنَا مَوَالِيَ مِمَّا تَرَكَ الْوَالِدَانِ وَالْأَقْرَبُونَ

وَالَّذِينَ عَقَدَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ فَآتُوهُمْ نَصِيبَهُمْ


I will be obliged.

OK I'll be happy to...

4:33 ولكل and for all (i.e. each individual) جعلنا We made موالي heirs (i.e. eligible to inherit) مما from what ترك left الوالدان the parents والاقربون and the close relatives والذين and the ones who عقدت pledged ايمانكم your right hands فآتوهم so give them نصيبهم their share ان indeed الله The God كان is على over كل each شيء a thing شهيدا Witness

The above is simply stating that each individual is eligible to inherit from what left their parents, and their close relatives (i.e. their children, brothers, sisters); their spouse, etc. and does not say or suggest as you incorrectly inferred earlier that every deceased person will have minimum of three heirs.

It is a known fact that in reality there are numerous people who died or who are going to die will leave no heirs, only one heir, or only two heirs ? simply look at those around you Mazhar including most probably yourself. Therefore, your reading of the verse is incorrect, contradicts reality, and is easily proven false.

Also consider the request made and granted ...
http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=19&verse=5


Peace!

Mazhar

Quote from: Noon waalqalami on August 25, 2012, 11:32:36 PM
OK I'll be happy to...

4:33 ولكل and for all (i.e. each individual) جعلنا We made موالي heirs (i.e. eligible to inherit) مما from what ترك left الوالدان the parents والاقربون and the close relatives والذين and the ones who عقدت pledged ايمانكم your right hands فآتوهم so give them نصيبهم their share ان indeed الله The God كان is على over كل each شيء a thing شهيدا Witness

The above is simply stating that each individual is eligible to inherit from what left their parents, and their close relatives (i.e. their children, brothers, sisters); their spouse, etc. and does not say or suggest as you incorrectly inferred earlier that every deceased person will have minimum of three heirs.

It is a known fact that in reality there are numerous people who died or who are going to die will leave no heirs, only one heir, or only two heirs ? simply look at those around you Mazhar including most probably yourself. Therefore, your reading of the verse is incorrect, contradicts reality, and is easily proven false.

Also consider the request made and granted ...
http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=19&verse=5


Peace!

The translation and inference do not correspond to each other. In translation you say, "for all individuals We made heirs". And heirs are those who are eligible to inherit.
In your translation, "each" individual and "heirs" are two different entities.

In the inference you say each individual is eligible to inherit.

Please reconcile.
[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

Noon waalqalami

Quote from: Mazhar on August 26, 2012, 06:38:38 AM
The translation and inference do not correspond to each other. In translation you say, "for all individuals We made heirs". And heirs are those who are eligible to inherit.
In your translation, "each" individual and "heirs" are two different entities.

In the inference you say each individual is eligible to inherit.

Please reconcile.

I see, fixated on grammar invented 100 years ago not reading context and avoiding contradictions?

6:132 ولكل and to each (individual; noun) درجات degrees مما from what عملوا they did (plural) وما and not ربك your Lord بغافل unaware عما of what يعملون they did (plural)

4:33 ولكل and to each (individual; noun) جعلنا We made/appointed موالي heirs (plural) مما from what ترك left الوالدان the parents والاقربون and the close relatives والذين and the ones who عقدت pledged ايمانكم your right hands فآتوهم so give them (plural) نصيبهم their share ان indeed الله The God كان is على over كل each شيء a thing شهيدا Witness


Once again individuals are made/appointed/entitled as heirs from what left their parents, etc. and not as you infer/read that each individual is guaranteed three or more heirs which is easily proven a false reading and a contradiction simply by finding only one case since the beginning of humanity (~ 57 million people leave us each year or ~155,000 each day) where someone died and left less than three heirs or simply examine each kalalah case ...

4:176 يستفتونك they seek your ruling قل say الله The God يفتيكم gives you a ruling في in الكلاله al-kalalah


Mazhar

QuoteQuote from: Mazhar on Today at 03:38:38 AM
The translation and inference do not correspond to each other. In translation you say, "for all individuals We made heirs". And heirs are those who are eligible to inherit.
In your translation, "each" individual and "heirs" are two different entities.

In the inference you say each individual is eligible to inherit.

Please reconcile.


Quote from: Noon waalqalami on August 26, 2012, 11:21:55 AM
I see, fixated on grammar invented 100 years ago not reading context and avoiding contradictions?

6:132 ولكل and to each (individual; noun) درجات degrees مما from what عملوا they did (plural) وما and not ربك your Lord بغافل unaware عما of what يعملون they did (plural)

4:33 ولكل and to each (individual; noun) جعلنا We made/appointed موالي heirs (plural) مما from what ترك left الوالدان the parents والاقربون and the close relatives والذين and the ones who عقدت pledged ايمانكم your right hands فآتوهم so give them (plural) نصيبهم their share ان indeed الله The God كان is على over كل each شيء a thing شهيدا Witness


Once again individuals are made/appointed/entitled as heirs from what left their parents, etc. and not as you infer/read that each individual is guaranteed three or more heirs which is easily proven a false reading and a contradiction simply by finding only one case since the beginning of humanity (~ 57 million people leave us each year or ~155,000 each day) where someone died and left less than three heirs or simply examine each kalalah case ...

4:176 يستفتونك they seek your ruling قل say الله The God يفتيكم gives you a ruling في in الكلاله al-kalalah

Just yesterday you said this:

QuoteOK I'll be happy to...

4:33 ولكل and for all (i.e. each individual) جعلنا We made موالي heirs (i.e. eligible to inherit) مما from what ترك left الوالدان the parents والاقربون and the close relatives والذين and the ones who عقدت pledged ايمانكم your right hands فآتوهم so give them نصيبهم their share ان indeed الله The God كان is على over كل each شيء a thing شهيدا Witness

The above is simply stating that each individual is eligible to inherit from what left their parents, and their close relatives (i.e. their children, brothers, sisters); their spouse, etc. and does not say or suggest as you incorrectly inferred earlier that every deceased person will have minimum of three heirs.
English preposition "for" which you used yesterday, correctly for Arabic preposition "Li", but today you have replaced it by "to". Are both prepositions "synonym"?
[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

Noon waalqalami

Quote from: Mazhar on August 26, 2012, 12:58:43 PM
Please reconcile.


Just yesterday you said this:
English preposition "for" which you used yesterday, correctly for Arabic preposition "Li", but today you have replaced it by "to". Are both prepositions "synonym"?

Peace Mazhar,

Regardless if using to/for, each/all does not change the basic meaning or the fact that your reading is erroneous.

I'm in process of carefully studying each word which there are ~ 77,797 in Qur'an to find the best non-contradicting and consistent meaning unlike most translations/translators who are careless, too lazy, inconsistent, contradictory, and often insert their own bizarre fetishes like you inserting housemaids.

It's a work in progress and today after having a look at all usages decided best/closest to render as such.

4:33 ولكل and to each جعلنا We made/appointed موالي heirs مما from what ترك left الوالدان the parents والاقربون and the close relatives والذين and the ones who عقدت pledged ايمانكم your right hands فآتوهم so give them نصيبهم their share ان indeed الله The God كان is على over كل each شيء a thing شهيدا Witness

Use "for" if you like...

2:148 ولكل and to/for each
6:132 ولكل and to/for each
7:34 ولكل and to/for each امه tribe/nation اجل a term
10:47 ولكل and to/for each امه tribe/nation رسول a messenger
13:7  ولكل and to/for each قوم community هاد a guide
22:34 ولكل and to/for each امه tribe/nation جعلنا We made/appointed منسكا a rite
46:19 ولكل and to/for each درجات degrees مما from what عملوا they have done


Now back to the topic of distributions; do you have other than what was posted for these combinations or want to let people decide which is clear, precise, and accurate according to Qur'an: IF case THEN distribute exactly?

mother, father
mother, son
mother, daughter
mother, sister
mother, brother
mother, wife
mother, husband
father, son
father, daughter
father, sister
father, brother
father, wife
father, husband
son, daughter
son, sister
son, brother
son, wife
son, husband
daughter, sister
daughter, brother
daughter, wife
daughter, husband
sister, brother
sister, wife
sister, husband
brother, wife
brother, husband

Quote from: Noon waalqalami on August 24, 2012, 10:12:34 PM
Thread is distributing shares according to Qur'an; either provide alternative distributions or stop spamming!

Here are all combinations for reference; obviously sole inheritor gets the whole, no need for arbitration laws.

4:11 يوصيكم directs you الله The God في in أولادكم your children للذكر to the male مثل like حظ share الأنثيين the two (feminine)...

son/s + daughter/s distribute at 2:1 ratio male to female = 1

4:11 ... فان so if كن kunna/are نساء nisa فوق above اثنتين two فلهن falahunna/so to them (feminine plural) ثلثا thulutha (2/3) ما what ترك left

وان and if كانت kanat/is (feminine) واحده one فلها so to her النصف the half

ولابويه and to their parents لكل to each واحد one منهما from them السدس the sixth مما from what ترك left ان if كان kana/is (masculine) له to person ولد walad/son (if male child/born)

فان so if لم not يكن was له to person ولد waladun/offspring/child born وورثه and heirs ابواه person?s parents (if only parents) فلامه so to his mother الثلث the third

فان so if كان kana/is (masculine singular) له to person اخوه ikh'wat (if male sibling/brother) فلامه so to his mother السدس the sixth

من from بعد after وصيه a will يوصي have made بها in it او or دين judgmentاباؤكم your fathers وابناؤكم and your children لا not تدرون you know ايهم which of them اقرب closer لكم to you نفعا benefit فريضه obligation من from الله The God ان indeed الله The God كان is عليما Knowing حكيما Wise


1 father + 0 sibling/s = 1

1/3 mother + 2/3 father = 1
1/6 mother + 5/6 brother/s = 1

1/6 mother/father + 5/6 son/s = 1
1/6 mother + 1/6 father + 2/3 son/s = 1

1 daughter  1/2 + 1/2 mother/father = 1
2 daughters + mother/father equally = 1
3 daughters 2/3 + 1/3 mother/father = 1

1 daughter  1/2 + 1/4 mother + 1/4 father = 1
2 daughters + mother + father all equally = 1
3 daughters 2/3 + 1/6 mother + 1/6 father = 1

1/6 mother/father + 5/6 (daughter/s + son/s) 2:1 ratio male to female = 1

4:11 kalalah fatherless and spouseless no son (sibling/s variable/unstated)
1 daughter  1/2 + 1/2 (mother + sister/s) = 1
1 daughter  1/2 + 1/6 mother + 1/3 brother/s = 1
1 daughter  1/2 + 1/6 mother + 1/3 (sister/s + brother/s) = 1

2 daughters + mother + sister/s (all share equally) = 1
2 daughters + brother/s 5/6 share equally + 1/6 mother = 1
2 daughters + brother/s + sister/s 5/6 share equally + 1/6 mother = 1

3 daughters 2/3 + 1/3 (mother + sister/s) = 1
3 daughters 2/3 + 1/6 mother + 1/6 brother/s = 1
3 daughters 2/3 + 1/6 mother + 1/6 (sister/s + brother/s) = 1

1 daughter  1/2 + 1/2 sister/s = 1
1 daughter  1/2 + 1/2 brother/s = 1
1 daughter  1/2 + 1/2 (sister/s + brother/s) = 1

2 daughters + sister/s = 1
2 daughters + brother/s = 1
2 daughters + sister/s + brother/s = 1

3 daughters 2/3 + 1/3 sister/s = 1
3 daughters 2/3 + 1/3 brother/s = 1
3 daughters 2/3 + 1/3 (sister/s + brother/s) = 1

4:12 ولكم and to you نصف half ما what ترك left ازواجكم your spouse?s ان if لم not يكن was لهن to them ولد waladun/offspring/child

فان so if كان kana is (masculine) لهن to them ولد walad/son (if is male child/born) فلكم so to you الربع the fourth

مما from what تركن they left من from بعد after وصيه a will يوصين they made بها in it او or دين judgment

ولهن and to them الربع the fourth مما from what تركتم you left ان if لم not يكن was لكم to you ولد waladun/offspring/child

فان so if كان kana is (masculine) لكم to you ولد walad/son (i.e. if to person male child/born) فلهن falahunna/so to them الثمن the eight

مما from what تركتم you left من from بعد after وصيه a will توصون you made بها in it او or دين judgment...


1 spouse + 0 sibling/s = 1

1/4 husband + 3/4 son/s = 1
1/8 wife    + 7/8 son/s = 1

1 daughter  1/2 + 1/2 spouse = 1
2 daughters + spouse equally = 1
3 daughters 2/3 + 1/3 spouse = 1

1/2 husband + 1/2 mother/father = 1
1/4 wife    + 3/4 mother/father = 1

1/2 husband + 1/4 mother + 1/4 father = 1
1/4 wife    + 3/8 mother + 3/8 father = 1

1/6 mother/father + 1/4 husband + 7/12  son/s = 1
1/6 mother/father + 1/8 wife    + 17/24 son/s = 1

1 daughter  1/2 + 1/4 mother/father + 1/4 spouse = 1
2 daughters + mother/father + spouse all equally = 1
3 daughters 2/3 + 1/6 mother/father + 1/6 spouse = 1

1/6 mother + 1/6 father + 1/4 husband + 5/12  son/s = 1
1/6 mother + 1/6 father + 1/8 wife    + 13/24 son/s = 1

1 daughter  1/2 + 1/6 mother + 1/6 father + 1/6 spouse = 1
2 daughters + mother + father + spouse (share equally) = 1
3 daughters 2/3 + 1/9 mother + 1/9 father + 1/9 spouse = 1

1/4 husband + 3/4 (daughter/s + son/s) 2:1 ratio male to female = 1

1/6 mother/father + 1/4 husband + 7/12 (daughter/s + son/s) 2:1 ratio male to female = 1
1/6 mother/father + 1/8 wife + 17/24 (daughter/s + son/s) 2:1 ratio male to female = 1

1/6 mother + 1/6 father + 1/4 husband + 5/12 (daughter/s + son/s) 2:1 ratio male to female = 1
1/6 mother + 1/6 father + 2/3 children mixed (daughter/s + son/s) 2:1 ratio male to female = 1

4:12 kalalah fatherless and spouseless has son; sibling/s fixed at 1/6 or 1/3
4:12 .. وان and if كان is رجل a man يورث inherited كلاله kalalah (no crown/head of household; fatherless and spouseless) او or امراه woman

وله and has اخ brother او or اخت sister فلكل so to each واحد one منهما from them السدس the sixth

فان so if كانوا they were اكثر greater من from ذلك that فه so they مشركاء partners في in الثلث the third

من from بعد after وصيه a will يوصى is recommended بها in it او or دين judgment غير not مضار harmful وصيه a will من from الله The God والله and The God عليم Knowing حليم Forbearing


1/6 sister/brother + 5/6 son/s = 1
1/3 sisters/brothers/(sister/s + brother/s) + 2/3 son/s = 1

1/6 sister/brother + 5/6 (daughter/s + son/s) 2:1 ratio male to female = 1
1/3 sisters/brothers/(sister/s + brother/s) + 2/3 (daughter/s + son/s) 2:1 ratio male to female = 1

1/6 mother + 1/6 sister/brother + 2/3 son/s = 1
1/6 mother + 1/3 sisters/brothers/(sister/s + brother/s) + 1/2 son/s = 1

1/6 mother + 1/6 sister/brother + 2/3 (daughter/s + son/s) 2:1 ratio male to female = 1
1/6 mother + 1/3 sisters/brothers/(sister/s + brother/s) + 1/2 (daughter/s + son/s) 2:1 ratio male to female = 1

4:176 al-kalalah the fatherless and spouseless no offspring/child born
4:176 يستفتونك they seek your ruling قل say الله The God يفتيكم gives you a ruling في in الكلاله al-kalalah (the fatherless and spouseless; deceased left no crown/head of household)

ان if امرؤ person هلك died ليس is not له to person ولد waladun/offspring/child وله and has اخت sister فلها so to her نصف half ما what ترك left وهو and he يرثها inherits it ان if لم not يكن was لها to her ولد waladun/offspring/child

فان so if كانتا they were اثنتين two (feminine) فلهما so to them الثلثان the third twice (2/3) مما from what ترك left

وان and if كانوا they were اخوه ikh'watun/siblings رجالا rijal ونساء wanisa فللذكر so to the male مثل like حظ share الانثيين the two (feminine)

يبين clarifies الله The God لكم to you ان lest تضلوا you stray والله and The God بكل in every شيء a thing عليم Knowing


1 sister  1/2 + 1/2 mother = 1
2 sisters 2/3 (1/3 each) + 1/3 mother = 1
3 sisters (1/4 each x 3) + 1/4 mother = 1

sister/s + brother/s distribute at 2:1 ratio male to female = 1
1/6 mother + 5/6 (sister/s + brother/s) distribute at 2:1 ratio male to female = 1


Mazhar

QuoteIt's a work in progress and today after having a look at all usages decided best/closest to render as such.

4:33 ولكل and to each جعلنا We made/appointed موالي heirs مما from what ترك left الوالدان the parents والاقربون and the close relatives والذين and the ones who عقدت pledged ايمانكم your right hands فآتوهم so give them نصيبهم their share ان indeed الله The God كان is على over كل each شيء a thing شهيدا Witness

Use "for" if you like...

2:148 ولكل and to/for each
6:132 ولكل and to/for each
7:34 ولكل and to/for each امه tribe/nation اجل a term
10:47 ولكل and to/for each امه tribe/nation رسول a messenger
13:7  ولكل and to/for each قوم community هاد a guide
22:34 ولكل and to/for each امه tribe/nation جعلنا We made/appointed منسكا a rite
46:19 ولكل and to/for each درجات degrees مما from what عملوا they have done

Did you notice some difference between the two red. Do you know what is the difference between both?
And do you know the reason why at some places there is Tanween while at others there is only one vowel sign?

If you do not know such elementary things about Arabic your criticism of all the translators seems ridiculous boast.

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Mazhar

Quote4:33 ولكل and to each (individual; noun) جعلنا We made/appointed موالي heirs (plural) مما from what ترك left الوالدان the parents والاقربون and the close relatives والذين and the ones who عقدت pledged ايمانكم your right hands فآتوهم so give them (plural) نصيبهم their share ان indeed الله The God كان is على over كل each شيء a thing شهيدا Witness

Mind it, leave Arabic aside, your English even after switching over from "for" to "to" has not resolved the contradiction in your translation and your inferencem which I pointed out to you.

QuoteThe translation and inference do not correspond to each other. In translation you say, "for all individuals We made heirs". And heirs are those who are eligible to inherit.
In your translation, "each" individual and "heirs" are two different entities.

In the inference you say each individual is eligible to inherit.

Read your sentence carefully:

Quoteand to each(individual; noun) We made/appointed heirs

If you know what the preposition "to" means you will realize the blunder in your understanding.

In the sentence "each" with prep "to" is a different entity and "appointed heirs" are different entities.
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