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Quranists and testing for clandestine agendas?

Started by Wakas, June 13, 2012, 05:59:08 PM

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Wakas

I have often wondered if some amongst the "Quranist" community have clandestine/hidden agendas. This could also include authors of works from any sect.

So, I was wondering, is there a way to test this? A way to ensure others or one does not have a hidden agenda, even hidden to oneself?

Are there signs that suggest no agenda / agenda etc? If so, what would they be?

There may even be articles on this online, I haven't checked. I primarily ask, because Quran says there are those who think they believe, or think they are doing good etc when they are not. So, it would be prudent to avoid such a pitfall.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

savage_carrot

One way is to put it out there in the public sphere and examine the comments from different sides seriously; to re-evaluate/re-examine oneself during as well. It's a process of routine checks I would think. As for others, guess it would be to see how they explain and/or take criticism and whether those are logical enough to exclude enough bias to be mostly agenda free. Usually agendas comprise of a very rigid pov etc that doesn't change even if there are glaring contradictions. All I can think of right now.

peace
God has a plan, Gaius. He has a plan for everything and everyone.

Bigmo

Quote from: Wakas on June 13, 2012, 05:59:08 PM
I have often wondered if some amongst the "Quranist" community have clandestine/hidden agendas. This could also include authors of works from any sect.

So, I was wondering, is there a way to test this? A way to ensure others or one does not have a hidden agenda, even hidden to oneself?

Are there signs that suggest no agenda / agenda etc? If so, what would they be?

There may even be articles on this online, I haven't checked. I primarily ask, because Quran says there are those who think they believe, or think they are doing good etc when they are not. So, it would be prudent to avoid such a pitfall.


Because the Quranist persuasion is still relatively knew and unknown, its easy for someone to claim he is the leader of this new movement. The internet has made this now very difficult as more and more people begin to join the persuasion. Often these individuals will author books and rarely mention other Quranist opinions. This usually happens in the begining when people are not aware of the movement and its views.

Quranist are still fragmented and work as individuals rather than as a group. This will not last long however. The problem this causes is that other people might hear this person's views and think all Quranist share that opinion. They may not be aware the diversity that exists. I have seen this with Rashad Khalifa and also Ahmed Subhi Mansour and to a lesser degree Ahmed Rifai'. They never show the diversity of opinions and only promote their own. But this is only in the short term. We have no literature as yet that outlines the various Quranist views on a range of topics.
88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe

Jafar

Quote from: Wakas on June 13, 2012, 05:59:08 PM
I have often wondered if some amongst the "Quranist" community have clandestine/hidden agendas. This could also include authors of works from any sect.

Based on my experiences with Homo Sapiens.. I'm certain of it...
Everyone has their own (hidden or shown) agendas.. it's unavoidable...

Quote
So, I was wondering, is there a way to test this? A way to ensure others or one does not have a hidden agenda, even hidden to oneself?

"if you want to test a man's true character, give him power."
-- Abe Lincoln

Quote
Are there signs that suggest no agenda / agenda etc? If so, what would they be?
There may even be articles on this online, I haven't checked. I primarily ask, because Quran says there are those who think they believe, or think they are doing good etc when they are not. So, it would be prudent to avoid such a pitfall.

Spending effort to understand one's 'hidden agenda' is a waste of effort and creates distrust and suspicion...
On the back of my head I think there's something similar to:
"Heed the advise from those who doesn't have any vested interest "
In the Quran, I forgot the verse..

Salam / Peace

Jafar

Quote from: savage_carrot on June 13, 2012, 06:34:28 PM
Usually agendas comprise of a very rigid pov etc that doesn't change even if there are glaring contradictions.
All I can think of right now.

True.. One of the indicator.. the POV is being proposed not to be 'tested' and the intention is not to 'seek truth'..
The author of the POV shall be easily angered when there's one who doesn't accept his/her POV and started 'name calling'..

Wakas

salaam/peace all,

Thanks for the replies.

I think there could be many "Quranist" agendas, e.g. to gain fame/fortune/popularity/praise, establish one's view, malign certain groups, to unburden themselves of having to follow strict Quranic guidance, integrate or make it more accepting to Western society etc.


In terms of testing this, I think there are a few tell tale signs, e.g....

they do not do what they say i.e. hypocrite, contradictory positions.

when emotionally rattled, or things get tough, or they have to put in significant effort, or use their own money/wealth - their true self comes out

they are not clear/open/honest in the information they present

they will regularly evade/obfuscate, commit logical fallacies in argument - in an effort to avoid being exposed/refuted

say one thing in public and another in private

etc.


Quote"if you want to test a man's true character, give him power."
-- Abe Lincoln

I like this saying. It reminds me of this post: http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8609.msg26554#msg26554

When someone is in a position of power, to do with you as they please, then it is indeed a test of character if they remain true/just/righteous/etc when dealing with you, even if against their own kin etc, as per Quran, e.g. 4:135.


Something to think about.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

Jafar

Quote from: Wakas on June 14, 2012, 01:16:59 PM
they will regularly evade/obfuscate, commit logical fallacies in argument - in an effort to avoid being exposed/refuted
And in the end resorted to name calling (their favorite deity; Mr. Satan is often being mentioned).. and if that also doesn't work they resorted to violence...

Quote
When someone is in a position of power, to do with you as they please, then it is indeed a test of character if they remain true/just/righteous/etc when dealing with you, even if against their own kin etc, as per Quran, e.g. 4:135.
Something to think about.

Any additional power and knowledge we got from God is a test of our wisdom to apply it...
God's revelation doesn't stop with Quran.. it continues today and it shall continues up to the future..

Salam / Peace

SarahY

peace,

of course there would be people with hidden agenda's though it would be difficult to accurately test what it may be.

personal deficiencies can cause people to regularly evade arguments, and commit logically fallacies etc. that might not indicate their lack of sincerity also one doesn't know what their devotion is to... To God?how? To being better/good? To understanding Quran? all of the above? something else?

no one knows the hearts of the people, we can be wishful and trust and hope for the best while making judgement?

you mention people who think they are doing good but aren't really. it's interesting because traditionalists fall back on intentions and also the fact that common people are not learned and are required to research what scholars have found and make a judgement based on that.
We all have blind spots.
Follow your heart but take your brain with you.
ambiguity is there for a reason, why do you think?
We're all different, so how can we all be equal?

good logic

Peace all.

As far as " Hidden agenda" goes , it will remain hidden, until the person hiding it slips up or GOD wishes to show it.

Then again are all "Hidden Agenda" bad ? There may be some good "Hidden Agenda".

If one trusts in GOD and remembers that he/she is going to meet HIM for accountability, he/she will hide less and show more. Also the Lord may protect them from bad " Hidden Agenda".

Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

savage_carrot

Quote from: Jafar on June 14, 2012, 03:34:08 AM
True.. One of the indicator.. the POV is being proposed not to be 'tested' and the intention is not to 'seek truth'..
The author of the POV shall be easily angered when there's one who doesn't accept his/her POV and started 'name calling'..
One of the ways, agreed.

Quote from: SarahYpersonal deficiencies can cause people to regularly evade arguments, and commit logically fallacies etc. that might not indicate their lack of sincerity also one doesn't know what their devotion is to... To God?how? To being better/good? To understanding Quran? all of the above? something else?
Wouldn't that be an indicator of their lack of sincerity striving for the truth/knowledge? At the end of the day, regardless of how we understand the quran or God...personal deficiencies that cause us to falter and/or hinder the path of truth or knowledge for ourselves or others for example would be bad all around. Some might even call such a self serving agenda e.g. :in which we might have someone refusing to acknowledge an evident truth for the sake of pride etc

Our shortcomings and our desire to do good/faith/belief and so on are interconnected in a way that improving the former would raise the dividends on the latter. The results would be stunted otherwise.
God has a plan, Gaius. He has a plan for everything and everyone.