Night of the decree , Ramadan , Pilgrimage and the Restricted Months

[farida]

Good day to all...

Yes, I agree with member Al-Kitab's assessment, as I have read many Arabic sources referring to the hot earth when it receives the first drops of autumn rain as being called: Al-Ramda'a    (الرمضاء) .   It's what gives off that characteristic earthly smell, when the hot soil receives the first rainfalls. 

So it would be logical to assume that Ramadan must coincide with the September-October  period of every year, and must be the beginning of fall  (the autumn equinox). Is this perhaps why they rank Ramadan as the 9th month? Could be...

The problem with the the so-called "Hijri" calendar is that it is PURELY a lunar calendar. Any calendar system that does not match with the seasons is garbage, in my opinion. You cannot dismiss the sun from your calculations. The Quran says that Allah made the sun AND the moon in order to determine the count of seasons and days. The Jews understood this fully. This is why, although they also adopt a lunar system to count DAYS, they add an intercallary month now and then to make sure that their months are always matching the SEASONS (i.e, they recognize the sun's importance). The misguided "Muslims" have completely ignored the sun, claiming that it is used by the "Kafir" Western calendar systems. As a result, the names given to their "Hijri" months are now meaningless and irrelevant.

Peace.

Salaam
"Hijri" calendar was created by Umar not by the Prophet. Ramadan is not part of a calender but fasting according to lunar cyle year.
Sana is more likely to be the seasonal year for future calculations, as mentioned to Yousuf(AS) about impending dry years. We need to understand these two types of years instead of looking at Jewish practice which, in the past, only added lots of hadiths.
Peace

[Zulf]

I don't intent to derail the topic of the thread, but I copied the below part from one of the posts in this thread:

يسالونك عن الاهلة قل هي مواقيت للناس والحج وليس البر بان تاتوا البيوت من ظهورها ولكن البر من اتقى واتوا البيوت من ابوابها واتقوا الله لعلكم تفلحون
2:189    They ask you regarding the  Announcement , say: "They are a timing mechanism for the people and the Pilgrimage." And piety is not that you would enter a home from its back, but piety is whoever is righteous and comes to the homes from their main doors. And be aware of Allah that you may succeed.

Is it just me who is ignorant, unknowledgeable and missing some pieces of information?... because to me this verse, or rather this translation, seems like a mix of different things and doesn't make much sense. Perhaps it makers perfect sense and it is just me who is ignorant, but I can't see the link between timing mechanisms, hajj, and then piety being connected to entering from the front or back of houses. What does piety has to do with door choice? Does back door mean to break in, sneak in, invade... what? Isn't piety something connected to your faith.
I just don't get it. Perhaps I'm lost.

Peace all

[Alkitab الكتاب]

I don't intent to derail the topic of the thread, but I copied the below part from one of the posts in this thread:

Is it just me who is ignorant, unknowledgeable and missing some pieces of information?... because to me this verse, or rather this translation, seems like a mix of different things and doesn't make much sense. Perhaps it makers perfect sense and it is just me who is ignorant, but I can't see the link between timing mechanisms, hajj, and then piety being connected to entering from the front or back of houses. What does piety has to do with door choice? Does back door mean to break in, sneak in, invade... what? Isn't piety something connected to your faith.
I just don't get it. Perhaps I'm lost.

Peace all

Salam Zulf ,

The English translation i found in this web site for that verse is like this :
2:189    They ask you regarding the crescent moons, say: "They are a timing mechanism for the people and the Pilgrimage." And piety is not that you would enter a home from its back, but piety is whoever is righteous and comes to the homes from their main doors. And be aware of God that you may succeed.

My point is that  The " الأهله Alahilah " witch was translated as  "the crescent moons" , do not mean the crescent moons but it mean the announcers / announcement , the announcers are the guys who come to announce to people about certain events to acquire during the coming days mainly pilgrimage time . this is why the verse that is mentioning  "And piety is not that you would enter a home from its back, but piety is whoever is righteous and comes to the homes from their main doors"
is pointing to this guys / the announcers when they tell people about these announcement for pilgrimage timing and others to come from front doors not the back and then announce the timing / events , because these guys / the announcers they come from the back of the doors announce and  apparently they  where saying like : we should not come from front doors  because is not piety to do so , because in front doors the women of the home will see us and we will saw them and that's not piety. so the Quran correct that thinking/ behavior and instruct them to come from the front doors

in our place the guy who come at night to announce the time of eating before the dawn during Ramadan is called "َhalal الهلال " the announcer , he use a drum or other instrument to wake up people for "suhur" : the meal consumed before the dawn , and he announce verbally that its time for "suhur"

I am not pointing by this that the lunar system is not to be used for the calculation of the timing for pilgrimage and other events because it surely has to be used it  , the question is what is the correct timing mecanisme used at that time ?

[Alkitab الكتاب]

Salaam
"Hijri" calendar was created by Umar not by the Prophet. Ramadan is not part of a calender but fasting according to lunar cyle year.
Sana is more likely to be the seasonal year for future calculations, as mentioned to Yousuf(AS) about impending dry years. We need to understand these two types of years instead of looking at Jewish practice which, in the past, only added lots of hadiths.
Peace

Salam ,

No , i think what member Pazuzu mentioned  is deeply recommended , to look and study comparatively  that subject and other debated-ed subject to the people of the book scriptures (The Torah &  The  Evangel التوراه و الأنجيل )

Look at this :
6:153    And this is My path, a straight one. "So follow it, and do not follow the other paths lest they divert you from His path. That is what He has enjoined you to that you may be righteous."
6:154    Then We gave Moses the Book, to complete for those who do right, and to fully detail all things, and a guide and mercy that they may believe in the meeting of their Rabb / Lord.
6:155    And this is a Book that We have sent down which is blessed/ Mobarak , so follow it and be aware, that you may receive mercy.
6:156    Lest you say: "The Book was only sent down to two groups before us, and we were unaware of their study!"
ثُمَّ آتَيْنَا مُوسَى الْكِتَابَ تَمَامًا عَلَى الَّذِيَ أَحْسَنَ وَتَفْصِيلاً لِّكُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً لَّعَلَّهُم بِلِقَاء رَبِّهِمْ يُؤْمِنُونَ
وَهَذَا كِتَابٌ أَنزَلْنَاهُ مُبَارَكٌ فَاتَّبِعُوهُ وَاتَّقُواْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ
أَن تَقُولُواْ إِنَّمَا أُنزِلَ الْكِتَابُ عَلَى طَائِفَتَيْنِ مِن قَبْلِنَا وَإِن كُنَّا عَن دِرَاسَتِهِمْ لَغَافِلِينَ

This verse is clearly mentioning that the follower of the recent book " the Quran" should be aware of the study of the books that was sent before .

There was a misguiding in the culture/ literature during ages among the people where the Quran spread-ed that the " people of the book اهل الكتاب" are all misguided , this is a delicate topic and need a very tiny judgement/ comparative eyes to pick up the truth from mountains of falsehood .

[kamking]

2:185 The month of Ramadan, in which the Quran was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, THOSE OF YOU WHO WITNESS THE MONTH shall fast therein. Whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God because He has guided you, that you may be thankful.

Dear knowledgeable Brothers, as i am unable to understand ........' THOSE WHO WITNESS THE MONTH .............'

A dead man can not witness , obviously Quran is addressing living and not dead, those who are alive are the witness , and surely Allah Knows that , then what is the reason for " Those Who Witness The Month " when only those could  possibly  Witness something  when he/she is alive and not dead . Therefore what does This Phrase Mean , Witness The Month . is it possible that only those who Witnessed The Revelation of Quran when it was being Revealed had to Fast and NOT those who DID NOT Witness the Revelation of Quran when it was being revealed .

[nurmuhammed]

Salam to all / سلام ,

i'll hold on posting in that subject for a while , i am not 100 % of something and better i do not post them 

dear man,
U know I'm not sure either, I was just wondering if Ramadan is a month, then where is the other names of months in Q....
I think  aididsafar has a decent point in saying "ramadan rituals"... maybe not!

[Alkitab الكتاب]

2:185 The month of Ramadan, in which the Quran was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, THOSE OF YOU WHO WITNESS THE MONTH shall fast therein. Whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. Allah wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify Allah because He has guided you, that you may be thankful.

Dear knowledgeable Brothers, as i am unable to understand ........' THOSE WHO WITNESS THE MONTH .............'

A dead man can not witness , obviously Quran is addressing living and not dead, those who are alive are the witness , and surely Allah Knows that , then what is the reason for " Those Who Witness The Month " when only those could  possibly  Witness something  when he/she is alive and not dead . Therefore what does This Phrase Mean , Witness The Month . is it possible that only those who Witnessed The Revelation of Quran when it was being Revealed had to Fast and NOT those who DID NOT Witness the Revelation of Quran when it was being revealed .

Surely not witnessing the revelation as it makes no sense at all.

In my understanding (2:185 (...) Therefore, THOSE OF YOU WHO WITNESS THE MONTH shall fast therein.)
                                                                                             

Mean        :    Those of you who are present  at the time of the manifestation of the month of Ramadan knowing that this month occur in a specific time/season during the year and that seasons move gradually according to the earth / Sun positions ( as far as i know ) ,by the time autumn or winter season are manifesting in Arabia there is hot or spring manifesting in the opposite side. And also by the time there is a full moon raised somewhere announcing the first night of Ramadan there will be still daylight somewhere else , so it sound logic that you ,for example , being in a place where you witnessing the raising full moon or other celestial or climatic singes announcing fasting start for you while i am in another place where those singes didn't occur yet .   so while you are among  those who :  2:185 (...) Therefore, THOSE OF YOU WHO WITNESS THE MONTH shall fast therein.)   i still not yet among them as i didn't yet witness what you witnessed  , logic , no ?

[Alkitab الكتاب]

The problem with the the so-called "Hijri" calendar is that it is PURELY a lunar calendar. Any calendar system that does not match with the seasons is garbage, in my opinion. You cannot dismiss the sun from your calculations. The Quran says that Allah made the sun AND the moon in order to determine the count of seasons and days. The Jews understood this fully. This is why, although they also adopt a lunar system to count DAYS, they add an intercallary month now and then to make sure that their months are always matching the SEASONS (i.e, they recognize the sun's importance).

Peace.

In my opinion the very Claire accurate singe that make difference between months , each one from the other are stars places in the sky ; stars places as viewed from the earth change gradually every month .

[mirjamnur]

Salam
I find that very interesting. That would point to  a solaric year? what criteria would then determine the new year? By  Ayman's theory it is the 'red full moon' but this  falls away from  your theory- maybe the summer solstice?
Thanks for your response . 

[Wakas]

....but I can't see the link between timing mechanisms, hajj, and then piety being connected to entering from the front or back of houses. What does piety has to do with door choice? Does back door mean to break in, sneak in, invade... what? Isn't piety something connected to your faith.
I just don't get it. Perhaps I'm lost.

Peace all

peace, to me, it reads like an idiom.