Philosophy: Sex before marriage

[lordfox]

The current understanding of the muslim mass, is that sexual intercourse before marriage should be avoided. Though, as with all things, we must put this explanation to the test, and if it fails philosophically, then it is simply wrong. If not, then we are following blindly, acting as sheep, and thus ignoring the advice of Allah.

And so I ask the philosophical or/and moral (true morality, not morality that is based on culture) reasons to support this understanding, because I cannot find any.

Thank you.

[Ghazelle]

And do not approach unlawful sexual intercourse. Indeed, it is ever an immorality and is evil as a way. Q 17:32

Maybe this is a good place to start?

[lordfox]

And do not approach unlawful sexual intercourse. Indeed, it is ever an immorality and is evil as a way. Q 17:32

Maybe this is a good place to start?

Read again my question, perhaps you will get what I am asking this time.

[Ruuube]

Read again my question, perhaps you will get what I am asking this time.

There isn't much to debate, is there?

Allah said no. So we said okay.

[justamuslim]

i can tell you from a societal and medical point of views why sex before marriage should be avoided. 

in this society, sex before marriage and having multiple sexual partners is considered the 'norm'.  this has lead to many children being conceived and mostly raised by single mothers.  it is rough life for single woman to work, take care of the kids by herself.  and a lot of these children don't know who the father is or have a relationship with their fathers.  children don't have a stable environment when mom is out dating different guys with these guys walking in and out of the children's lives, some are mistreated by the guys mom is having sex with.  i have taken care of one too many kids who were sexually abused by mom's boyfriends.  the impact of people who have sex before marriage and with multiple partners resulting in conception of children is enormous on society and the impact is generational.   the best environment for children to grow up is when you have a stable home with mom and dad in a good marriage. 

there is also the medical reasons - the various STD's that's out there and will be cropping up in the future.  the medical costs of treating STD is enormous.  Have you heard of anyone being all excited and feeling good about being diagnosed with HIV, HPV, etc.    If we all had sex only after marriage, the prevalence of STD would be very low to actually none. 

then there is the emotional and psychological reasons.  we are human beings.  we have emotions, feelings, memories.   you have memories of the person you have been with.  sex is the closest you can be physically with another person.  if that relationship ends, surely it cannot be good for the pscyhe/soul.  so, sex before marriage can hurt at different levels. 

at the purely sensual point of view, sex in a loving committed relationship is the best and highest, ultimate form of pleasure.  hey, God who created us knows what is best for us!   

[Lena]

Marriage is no protection against any of these things. Fathers can be violent and abusive and rape their children too. Husbands and wives can sleep around and give each other STD's. Many marriages are dysfunctional and unstable family environments in which to raise children. Intimacy with a husband or wife who psychologically demeans their partner or who is  insensitive to their partner's sexual needs is certainly not a close, sensual and loving experience.

That leaves jealousy over past partners. God allows men to have more than one wife under specific circumstances and Prophet Mohamed had more than one wife, so there is potential for jealously also to happen within marriages.
God allows for divorce. These days divorce in itself can lead to a form of multiple partners (serial monagamy).

Also, does God imply in Quran that it is Ok for men to lust after women (not men). There is no mention of love or marriage? Does this mean that it's ok for men to "lustfully" desire other women as long as it is not acted upon? And as women and men have the same rights is it ok for women to lust after men as long as they don't act on it?  The dictionary refers to lust as an intense or unrestrained sexual desire. Unrestrained lust is usually about meeting one's own needs until that lust is satiated, unless it is a controlled lust as noted above (i.e not acted upon).  Does unlawful sex refer to having sex with the absence of love not just sex outside of marriage?

The only mitigating factor I can think of about marriage is that God tells us "the believing men should marry the believing women". If both partners are following God's righteous path as God Alone, Muslims then the above situations (STD's, abuse, jealousy, instability etc) will not occur. So the philosophical and moral reasons for no sex before marriage cannot be dealt with outside of the context of believers marrying believers.

[Lena]

Where does pre marital masturbation fit in all of this? Is it a gross sin, just a sin, controlled lust?

[lordfox]

There isn't much to debate, is there?

Allah said no. So we said okay.

Instead of blindly following rules, I try to find the philosophical reasons behind them. I have been proven, times and times again, that the traditional translators were wrong on many, many verses. You do as you please, and I will do so too.

@justamuslim

As Lena pointed out, most of the arguments you have given are easily refuted, and the two last paragraphs are nothing more but speculations. Furthermore they are not even based on morality, which is what I asked.

[Ruuube]

I do not 'blindly' follow rules.

I start with the basis that Allah is correct. Anything otherwise is impossible. From there, I work backwards. What did Allah say. Is this logical. Why is it logical. If it is not logical, what would the cause of it seeming illogical be. And eventually, I feel I have an understanding of what he said. Then, I revisit the verse and attempt to solidify that understanding by comparing it to other places in the book where similar terms are used.

At no point has this sequence of deduction ever failed me, which is why I follow. Because Allah is correct, and has proven himself to be time and time again.

[lordfox]

I do not 'blindly' follow rules.

I start with the basis that Allah is correct. Anything otherwise is impossible. From there, I work backwards. What did Allah say. Is this logical. Why is it logical. If it is not logical, what would the cause of it seeming illogical be. And eventually, I feel I have an understanding of what he said. Then, I revisit the verse and attempt to solidify that understanding by comparing it to other places in the book where similar terms are used.

At no point has this sequence of deduction ever failed me, which is why I follow. Because Allah is correct, and has proven himself to be time and time again.

The creative force is correct, there is no debate here.

The problem is when you choose to take English translations of the Quran as the authentic message of Allah. As we can never be sure of the correctness of the translation of verses, we ought to put every rule, statement, etc. that is within the English translations under the test; if it fails philosophically (such as the beating of the wife etc.), then systematically the translation is wrong. You must understand that I cannot abide to the rules of a translation.