Which are the four Sacred Months according to Quran ???

[ayman]

Please be informed that MASOOMboy is no longer interested in this topic.
Thanks for the link. While I study the threads in the link, can you please summarize and provide the detail of Quran calendar in respect to the Gregorian calendar so that others can comment. Fyi., Quranists have few opinions regarding the Quran's calendar. Some accepted the Hijra' calendar, some refer to Gregorian, Chinese etc.
1 book, 1 GOD but many opinions and never get to agreement.

Peace A2Z,

One needs to ask the right question to brgin with. The question is not about calendars. The god and the entire universe doesn't care abour manmade calendars. They don't care that man named a month February or Zul Hegga or Safar or whatever. They don't care that man haphazardly divided the day into 24 hours or that he made up units of 7 days and called them week. So the question is not about arbitrary manmade calendars. The question is about natural cosmic phenomena that can be used for timing. The right question is answered here:

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0

The first few posts provide the best answer currently available and in the remaining 236 pages the answer is discussed and dissected from almost every conceivable angle. This makes the above thread the best resource available anywhere on this topic

Peace,

Ayman

[ayman]

@ Ayman
Please tell me is this statment  correct or not ,"Rabi is derived from the root word Araba which means 4."

No. The root is not ARB'A (4). The root is RB'A, which doesn't mean the number 4.

[Edip Yuksel]

Here is my answer. From, Quran: a Reformist Translation, note on verse 9:37:

009:037   Today's Sunni and Shiite mushriks consider Rajab, Zul-Qada, Zul-Hijja, and Muharram to be the Restricted Months (the 7th, 11th, 12th, and 1st months of lunar calendar). However, when we study 2:197,217; 9:2,5,36 and the names of known months, we will discover that real Restricted Months must be four consecutive months and they are Zul-Hijja, Muharram, Safar, Rabi ul-Awal (12th, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd months). The very name of the 12th month, Zul-Hijja (Contains Haj), gives us a clue that it is the first month of haj pilgrimage. When we start from the 12th month, the last of the Restricted Months becomes the 3rd month, Rabi ul-Awal (First Fourth), and the very name of this month also is revealing; it suggests that it is the fourth month of the Restricted Months. Then, why the qualification "First"? Well, the name of the following month provides an explanation: Rabi ul-Akhir (Second Fourth), which is the fourth month from the beginning of the year. In other words we have two months called "Fourth," the first one referring to the fourth restricted moth, with the second fourth referring to the fourth month of the lunar year. The word rabi (fourth) is used for seasons because each season is one fourth of a year. It is interesting that many of the crimes and distortions mentioned in the Quran have been committed by those who have abandoned the Quran for the sake of hadith and sunna; they repeated the same blunder of their polytheist ancestors.

[nobuddy]

Peace,

9:36 إن indeed عدة count الشهور the shwr عند with الله The God اثنا two عشر ten (is/for twelve) شهرا shra في in كتاب scripture الله The God يوم day خلق created السماوات the skies والأرض and the earth منها from it أربعة four حرم prohibited

Here is my answer. From, Quran: a Reformist Translation, note on verse 9:37:

009:037   Today's Sunni and Shiite mushriks consider Rajab, Zul-Qada, Zul-Hijja, and Muharram to be the Restricted Months (the 7th, 11th, 12th, and 1st months of lunar calendar). However, when we study 2:197,217; 9:2,5,36 and the names of known months, we will discover that real Restricted Months must be four consecutive months and they are Zul-Hijja, Muharram, Safar, Rabi ul-Awal (12th, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd months). The very name of the 12th month, Zul-Hijja (Contains Haj), gives us a clue that it is the first month of haj pilgrimage. When we start from the 12th month, the last of the Restricted Months becomes the 3rd month, Rabi ul-Awal (First Fourth), and the very name of this month also is revealing; it suggests that it is the fourth month of the Restricted Months. Then, why the qualification "First"? Well, the name of the following month provides an explanation: Rabi ul-Akhir (Second Fourth), which is the fourth month from the beginning of the year. In other words we have two months called "Fourth," the first one referring to the fourth restricted moth, with the second fourth referring to the fourth month of the lunar year. The word rabi (fourth) is used for seasons because each season is one fourth of a year. It is interesting that many of the crimes and distortions mentioned in the Quran have been committed by those who have abandoned the Quran for the sake of hadith and sunna; they repeated the same blunder of their polytheist ancestors.

How do you know which the first is or twelve?

What if you awoke from a long sleep ? how do you know "Zul-Hijja" month/year, ask who the Chinese?

18:11-12 فضربنا so We cast على on آذانهم their ears في in الكهف the cave سنين seasons عددا for a number ثم furthermore بعثناهم We raised them لنعلم that We make evident أي which الحزبين the two parties أحصى calculated لما to what لبثوا they remained أمدا duration

[A2Z]

Here is my answer. From, Quran: a Reformist Translation, note on verse 9:37:

009:037   Today's Sunni and Shiite mushriks consider Rajab, Zul-Qada, Zul-Hijja, and Muharram to be the Restricted Months (the 7th, 11th, 12th, and 1st months of lunar calendar). However, when we study 2:197,217; 9:2,5,36 and the names of known months, we will discover that real Restricted Months must be four consecutive months and they are Zul-Hijja, Muharram, Safar, Rabi ul-Awal (12th, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd months). The very name of the 12th month, Zul-Hijja (Contains Haj), gives us a clue that it is the first month of haj pilgrimage. When we start from the 12th month, the last of the Restricted Months becomes the 3rd month, Rabi ul-Awal (First Fourth), and the very name of this month also is revealing; it suggests that it is the fourth month of the Restricted Months. Then, why the qualification "First"? Well, the name of the following month provides an explanation: Rabi ul-Akhir (Second Fourth), which is the fourth month from the beginning of the year. In other words we have two months called "Fourth," the first one referring to the fourth restricted moth, with the second fourth referring to the fourth month of the lunar year. The word rabi (fourth) is used for seasons because each season is one fourth of a year. It is interesting that many of the crimes and distortions mentioned in the Quran have been committed by those who have abandoned the Quran for the sake of hadith and sunna; they repeated the same blunder of their polytheist ancestors.

Are you referring to the current Hijra Calendar or Lunar Calendar used by majority of the Muslim? If not, please explain in more details.

Have you read ayman's article in below thread?

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0

What say you?

[A2Z]

Peace A2Z,

One needs to ask the right question to brgin with. The question is not about calendars. The god and the entire universe doesn't care abour manmade calendars. They don't care that man named a month February or Zul Hegga or Safar or whatever. They don't care that man haphazardly divided the day into 24 hours or that he made up units of 7 days and called them week. So the question is not about arbitrary manmade calendars. The question is about natural cosmic phenomena that can be used for timing. The right question is answered here:

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0

The first few posts provide the best answer currently available and in the remaining 236 pages the answer is discussed and dissected from almost every conceivable angle. This makes the above thread the best resource available anywhere on this topic

Peace,

Ayman

At the beginning the thread looks interesting but when come to your below answer to Marie, I decided to stop reading.

Peace sister Marie, all,

We should only count 12 even in the years where there are 13. Hence, we should simply not count the 13th moon. The difference between absolute number ("3adad") and count ("3idat") was explained in more details in the article. Please go over those details again and let me know if there is anything that specifically requires more clarification.

I'm not Code19 believer but in math there is no subjectivity or grey area. 1 + 1 is 2. What a nonsense.

[Bigmo]

Here is my answer. From, Quran: a Reformist Translation, note on verse 9:37:

009:037   Today's Sunni and Shiite mushriks consider Rajab, Zul-Qada, Zul-Hijja, and Muharram to be the Restricted Months (the 7th, 11th, 12th, and 1st months of lunar calendar). However, when we study 2:197,217; 9:2,5,36 and the names of known months, we will discover that real Restricted Months must be four consecutive months and they are Zul-Hijja, Muharram, Safar, Rabi ul-Awal (12th, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd months). The very name of the 12th month, Zul-Hijja (Contains Haj), gives us a clue that it is the first month of haj pilgrimage. When we start from the 12th month, the last of the Restricted Months becomes the 3rd month, Rabi ul-Awal (First Fourth), and the very name of this month also is revealing; it suggests that it is the fourth month of the Restricted Months. Then, why the qualification "First"? Well, the name of the following month provides an explanation: Rabi ul-Akhir (Second Fourth), which is the fourth month from the beginning of the year. In other words we have two months called "Fourth," the first one referring to the fourth restricted moth, with the second fourth referring to the fourth month of the lunar year. The word rabi (fourth) is used for seasons because each season is one fourth of a year. It is interesting that many of the crimes and distortions mentioned in the Quran have been committed by those who have abandoned the Quran for the sake of hadith and sunna; they repeated the same blunder of their polytheist ancestors.

The problem here is that you started with the term "mushriks" when describing Sunnis and Shias. The Quran however recognizes that Sunnis and Shias are monotheist and I am not sure where is your evidence from the Koran that Sunnism and Shiasm are shirk religions.

This means your definition of shirk is radically different than that of the Koran and so how can you translate the Koran then?

[Asana]

Peace Ayman

No. The root is not ARB'A (4). The root is RB'A, which doesn't mean the number 4.

Thanks for the reply?Of course the root word is ?ra ba ayn? and the statement is saying that its root is from the word of Arba?a which means 4 and it is correct BUT  one letter made it sounds incorrect !!It depends on how one would like to read the statement and wants to hear what it meant!!

This is the problem with you Ayman ,you read and hear what you?d like to hear not what the truth is?Lexicon dictionary has extensive explanation of the root word and its derivative especially about Rabi ?You only stick to the spring meaning and left no explanation how on earth Arab would have/call two months as spring season !

You distorted the Sacred months and the Ramadan just because never put your Trust in God to be so Kind and Merciful leaving us some kind of mark and guidance for those who wish to be guided...

You don?t believe in a Merciful God Who is asking us to fast and perform the Hajj helping the people have some kind of calendar to follow it?.

And a Merciful God to mark the beginning of the Hajj by letting the people name the first month of it as Zulhijjah/posseser of Hajj and then revealing it  the Sacred months are consecutive months?.

And a Merciful God Who is revealing that the phases of the moon is for timing the Hajj, teaching us using the lunar calendar and proving that the people knew  about the
Hajj and the calendar but testing His Messenger by beating around the bush ?.

And a Merciful God Who is telling us in 56:40 ?? Many from the later generations? will go to Paradise reminding us their Quiblah , Hajj and fasting were accepted .

And a Merciful God Who doesn't make the religion complicated or difficult to follow it..

Do the Muslims? worlds know any Focal point other than the Kaaba? Do they know any sacred months other than at least Zulhijjah and Safar and Moharram? Do they know any month other than Ramadan for fasting according the calendar?

If there hasn?t been one believer for the last 1400 years on the right path then we all should put our hope and trust in people like you guiding us to the right direction not God, you who don?t even show your face to the public dear Ayman!!!

Ayman my Trust in God is so strong that I believe even if it is for the sake of one believer to be saved  on this earth He would keep the sacred months, Ramadan and Quiblah as they are?.It all depends on how we know God and how much we trust Him...

Peace
Asana 

[tlihawa]

I'm not Code19 believer but in math there is no subjectivity or grey area. 1 + 1 is 2. What a nonsense.

Salam A2Z,
I get confused same as you, until I realize something in 74:30-31 could explain about the exact math. You should focus at the word used on those verses.

74:29   A signal <lawwāḥatun> to human beings.
74:30   Upon it is nineteen.

74:31   And We have made the guardians of the Fire to be angels; and We did not make their prescribed number (of time period) <ʿiddatahum> except as a test for those who have rejected, so that those who were given the Book would understand, and those who have faith would be increased in faith, and so that those who have been given the Book and the believers do not have doubt, and so that those who have a sickness in their hearts and the rejecters would say: "What did God mean with an example such as this?" It is such that God misguides whom He wishes, and He guides whom He wishes. And none know the soldiers of your Lord except He; and it is but a reminder for human beings.

Here, you should treat the word 'iddatahum' as cycle of time period. Please check the same word used in 2:184, 2:185, 33:49, 65:1, and 65:4 to understand the context.

And the time period here is 19. The cycle of nineteen.

Please note that the believers and people of the book knew about it, and it is the sign to all human beings (74:29). I would like to show you how this 19 cycle works regarding timing period. This calculation is taken from people of the book's calendar.

In the fourth century, Hillel II established a fixed calendar based on mathematical and astronomical calculations. This calendar, still in use, standardized the length of months and the addition of months over the course of a 19 year cycle, so that the lunar calendar realigns with the solar years. Adar I is added in the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 19th years of the cycle. The current cycle began in Jewish year 5758 (the year that began October 2, 1997). If you are musically inclined, you may find it helpful to remember this pattern of leap years by reference to the major scale: for each whole step there are two regular years and a leap year; for each half-step there is one regular year and a leap year. This is easier to understand when you examine the keyboard illustration below and see how it relates to the leap years above.

from : http://www.jewfaq.org/calendar.htm

The Jewish calendar is based on three astronomical phenomena: the rotation of the Earth about its axis (a day); the revolution of the moon about the Earth (a month); and the revolution of the Earth about the sun (a year). These three phenomena are independent of each other, so there is no direct correlation between them. On average, the moon revolves around the Earth in about 29? days. The Earth revolves around the sun in about 365? days, that is, about 12.4 lunar months.

This calendar matches with the Al Quran requirements regarding year count:

• 
  Revolution the earth about the sun and revolution the moon about the earth.

10:5  He is the One who has made the sun a radiance, and the moon a light, and He has measured its phases; that you may know the number of the years and the count. God has not created this except with the truth. He clarifies the revelations for a people who know.

• 
  And the rotation of the Earth about its axis (a day) as well:

17:12And We made the night and the day as two signs, so We erased the sign of night and We made the sign of day to see-in, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know the number of the years and the count. And everything We have detailed completely.

By knowing this, I have no doubt that 12-13 month issue is just a test for us. The Luni Solar year will be synchronized automatically every 19 years, and it well documented in the book. Verse 9:36 is just to confirm that the year is based on 12-month cycle, but we need to consider the 74:31 to get the big picture.

And what about intercalary month in 9:37?

It seems that the Rejecter didn't count the 13th month (if any) as part of the restricted months.

peace..

[Edip Yuksel]

Ayman's article?
No. Something else?

Peace,
Edip