Author Topic: Quran: Follow the previous scripture?  (Read 7254 times)

MaverickMonotheist

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Re: Quran: Follow the previous scripture?
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2012, 10:28:31 AM »
Peace GT,

Nicea dealt with theological and calendar issues, and that is all.

http://www.christian-history.org/nicea-myths.html

Most of the books in the NH collection weren't even written by that point, and the ones that were were only used by a small number of Egyptians interested in syncretizing Christianity with Egyptian religious/philosophical traditions.  You can't burn what hasn't been written yet.  There's lots of scholarly documentation abotu how late those texts are, and how they never had any major following at all.

Athanasius' Festal Letter could only be binding on the churches under his episcopacy.  Bishops had the right to determine which texts were used within their jurisdiction.  Other bishops honored the decisions that their peers made.  Here's a table of early church writers and what texts they endorsed:

http://www.ntcanon.org/table.shtml

I'm not a JW, I'm a Muslim who is a former Christian.  I spent a year in seminary, so I've had more education than most on the Bible.  I don't believe that the Bible is infallible or inerrant, but a lot of the things my fellow Muslims say about the Bible is categorically untrue. The message of the Bible and the message of the Qur'an are tied together.  It is because of the disobedience of the early Christians and Jews that the Qur'an was revealed to correct what needed correction and to confirm what was true.  It is the standard, but most Muslims are so indoctrinated or not well-educated enough to see where they fit together.

Honestly, a lot of the things that Muslims say about the Bible keep Christians away from the Qur'an.  If they would drop some of the polemics and learn some things, they'd be surprised how many would be receptive to the message of the Qur'an.

Peace,
Joel

Salaam MaverickMonotheist

I understand that its no problem, you dont agree with the Nicea council idea of burning altho there is so much historical evidence for that it happend. I would recommed you to research the Nag Hammadi library, these are gnostic bibles which have been hiden because they actaully were supposed to be burned according to Nicea. It included a letter that condemned the use of non-canonical books in Festal Letter of 367AD.

My brother im not trying to preform any prededatory dawa  :) I just have been doing alot of history research over the years.

2) Im not trying to prove that chrisitianity is false in any way im just trying to show u that not everying seems as it is, one must research deeply to understand that relegion in that time mostly was about power and politics.  The Quran talks for itself it dont need anyone to prove it right, its for the mind of the human to decide.

3) ofcourse the Quran confirms Jesus message, as has been prophecied in the cannonical gospels that one should come and testify in his name. Please dont believe that im trying to attack the Bible, I enjoy reading both the Quran and the Bible to show me what is right and what is wrong, where it went that a bit further and were it got corrected etc. I completly agree that the church is leading the docterines which arent even mentioned in the Bible, Same is with muslims which follow the Hadiths and not the Quran in the essence.

May i ask you are you are JW(Jehova wtiness)? I network alot with JW and they seem to be on the same line with you, they also dont accept the Trinity but believe the Bible is the infallible word of God which rejectes the trinity concept etc.

Salaam brother.

Sidi

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Re: Quran: Follow the previous scripture?
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2012, 06:44:37 AM »

It is the standard, but most Muslims are so indoctrinated or not well-educated enough to see where they fit together.



Salam Bro Joel,

Its the other way round,

I have had lots of encounter with christians group and how much I tried to explain from the Bible, they never agreed to the fact that Jesus was only a Messenger Of GOD who was sent to convey the message.

And not only that they started to lambast The Last Prophet of GOD.


MaverickMonotheist

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Re: Quran: Follow the previous scripture?
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2012, 06:48:52 AM »

Salam Bro Joel,

Its the other way round,

I have had lots of encounter with christians group and how much I tried to explain from the Bible, they never agreed to the fact that Jesus was only a Messenger Of GOD who was sent to convey the message.

And not only that they started to lambast The Last Prophet of GOD.

Peace Sidi,

Yeah, there are a lot of not-so-educated Christians out there who talk very loudly.  I'd say they don't know the Bible very well.  I work with a lot of typical Christians and they've learned to not bring up the Bible around me.  But those you spoke to should at least have good manners enough to not speak bad things against the prophet.  :(

Peace bro,
Joel

Ayisha

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Re: Quran: Follow the previous scripture?
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2012, 10:13:29 AM »


As for the Torah we can kinda conclude that it has alterations as mentioned in the Quran, Plus this can be easily shown trough the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Dead Sea Scrolls added so much prophecies and other text to the OT that even a Christian/Jew can admit that dont have the same scriptures as back then. The Quran just confirms the stories and corrects these where they got exaturated.

Salaam.

Salam, can you please show the references to the 'alterations as mentioned in the Quran' regarding the Torah, thank you.  :peace:
In the name of God, The Compassionate, The Merciful.
Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe,
The Compassionate, The Merciful,
Sovereign of the Day of Judgement!
You alone we worship, and to You alone we turn for help.
Guide us to the straight path,
The path of those You have favoured,
Not of those who have incurred Your wrath,
Nor of those who have gone astray.

tauhid101

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Re: Quran: Follow the previous scripture?
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2012, 11:46:30 AM »
Peace and may God's blessings be upon everyone,

I'm not a JW, I'm a Muslim who is a former Christian.  I spent a year in seminary, so I've had more education than most on the Bible.  I don't believe that the Bible is infallible or inerrant, but a lot of the things my fellow Muslims say about the Bible is categorically untrue. The message of the Bible and the message of the Qur'an are tied together.  It is because of the disobedience of the early Christians and Jews that the Qur'an was revealed to correct what needed correction and to confirm what was true.  It is the standard, but most Muslims are so indoctrinated or not well-educated enough to see where they fit together.

Honestly, a lot of the things that Muslims say about the Bible keep Christians away from the Qur'an.  If they would drop some of the polemics and learn some things, they'd be surprised how many would be receptive to the message of the Qur'an.

I agree with MaverickMonotheist. Furthermore, the final Book is only confirming and a witness to the previous Books. Who or what will confirm and be a witness to what was created after the final Book? The final revelations is the Book of Truth as promised in the Gospel which will tell all Truth and God alone is the Councillor and the Comforter. Only God alone with His Messages will guide each one of us to the Truth.

The stumbling block for those seeking the Truth is clinging on to the doctrines of man. For example, I am certain God did not want His Messages to be called the Great Reading (the Quran). The arabs were supposed to correct the Gospel and the Torah but they did not do it. The doctrines of man from these two Books still existed today and it is up to each one of us to seek what were required from them in Truth.

To seek the Truth from God alone, one has to distant himself/herself from being influenced by the doctrines of man. One of the most important thing God with the Book of Truth taught me is that I am, we are all spiritual beings. Would anyone of you want to believe we are immortal spiritual beings? To "build the rope", the bond between God and each one of us is the manifestation of the spirit of truth/faith/iman within us. That is by accepting the Truth from God alone because only God has the power and authority to send down the spirit of truth to dwell within us. Our salvation is to be like Jesus/Immanuel/Isa, a statement of Truth. Submitting(islam) oneself to God alone for the Truth and to bow to God's Will and be a righteous Believer in this life (to be muslim) is only part of the criteria imposed on the Straight Path. The final goal is to return to God as a credible Witness, just like all the prophets, men of Truth.

Peace everyone and may God's blessings be upon everyone with the Truth.
tauhid101.

mirjamnur

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Re: Quran: Follow the previous scripture?
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2012, 12:39:20 PM »
 Salam
Quote
I'm not a JW, I'm a Muslim who is a former Christian.  I spent a year in seminary, so I've had more education than most on the Bible.  I don't believe that the Bible is infallible or inerrant, but a lot of the things my fellow Muslims say about the Bible is categorically untrue. The message of the Bible and the message of the Qur'an are tied together.  It is because of the disobedience of the early Christians and Jews that the Qur'an was revealed to correct what needed correction and to confirm what was true.  It is the standard, but most Muslims are so indoctrinated or not well-educated enough to see where they fit together.

Honestly, a lot of the things that Muslims say about the Bible keep Christians away from the Qur'an.  If they would drop some of the polemics and learn some things, they'd be surprised how many would be receptive to the message of the Qur'an.



yes this is unfortunately too true. I have the same experience. The refusal of most Muslims to the Bible is very large. I say, less than 10% of Muslims has ever opened the Bible. Here are the ahaadeeth largely to blame. There are traditions that emphasize that Prophet Muhammad was angry when someone wanted to read the Bible. Sun of course, the Sunnis reject totally to study the Bible. They obey Shaitan and give the peace  God no chance .... :brickwall:

SaifulAli

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Re: Quran: Follow the previous scripture?
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2012, 05:24:17 AM »
 :) well said!
It's only sinful or permissible if God says so!

youssef4342

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Re: Quran: Follow the previous scripture?
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2012, 02:32:44 PM »
peace be with you as well!
I personally would se ethe truth and guidance and the cross referances between the Bible and the Quran.
i have counted around 275 times cross refrences from the Quran to the bible, and i would say there would be about 300 more cross refrences if one traces from the bible to the Quran (things that might be overlooked might be the spiders house being flimsy, in the Quran and the book of Job, and the camel going through the eye of a needle, in the Qurna & gospels)...

for the previous scriptures, i would say that most of the corruption would be in the translations of those text  as well as their commentaries (Jews have the Talmud + Hebrew Bible).
Most of the Old testament books could go back to the Dead sea scrolls--them being older than Muhammed and jesus.... and Muhammed and jesus did confirm the bible and the Gospels.
Meaning what we have today would be accurate to a high degree.

When the Quran talks about twisting the words of God, i would believe that it is twisting the meaning of the words, not the words themselves.

Maybe get the RSV bible and read it.
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huruf

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Re: Quran: Follow the previous scripture?
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2012, 11:32:58 PM »
Why the Bible? The Qur'an says God sent prophets to everypeople. So whyonly the bible? The Bible, at any rate has made well its way into the Qur'an through a multitude of hadith, and the Bible itself is hadith.

When the Qur'an confirms whas was revealed previously it says what it says, it doesn't certify the authenticity of the bible, the whole bible, it doesnt go either into this page says this which is right and that page says that which is wrong. The bible, as the bible itself makes well known is not the word of God. There are words of God in the bĦBible, but the bible itself is not the word of God, sho how can it be held on the same standing and Qur'an ans say that God confirms "the bible" it may confirm previous revelations, parts of which may be contained in the bib but the bible itself such as it si is not revealed. Some contents of it might have been revealed. The bible is hadith. So if we reject hadith as a basis for absolute certaint or for rules of conduct, nothwithstanding that in many hadiths there may be indeed the words of the Prophet, and in many also very divine teachings, to uphold that the bible is on a foot with the Qur'an is deceiving. It is on a foot with hadith and there is no reason to be more considerate or mindful of the bible that of any other scriptures or holy teachings upheld by all the peoples of humanity as sacred and divine teachings. God revealed Itself to every people, not only to one people and there is no greater gurantee to the bible than to other holy teaching sent to every people, just as there is none to hadith. We have to deal with each content of them contrasting them with the Qur'an, but with the Qur'an untainted by biblical indoctrinating. And the Qur'an is being interpreted through centuries tainted by biblical teaching seeped into it throught the hadith.

Whoever wants to follow the bible, that is up to himself or herself, but one is under no obligation to follow the bible. Though everyone may profit from the reading of holy books, be it the bible or any other book of any other divine tradition, just as one may profit from reading hadith, because among the hadith there are sublime ones and sa lot to profit from.

Salaam

youssef4342

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Re: Quran: Follow the previous scripture?
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2012, 10:09:48 AM »
peace huruf,

we are not obligated to follow the bible, however, we are commanded to believe in the previous book (4:136)


[5:48] Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.
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