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Confusion over 2:259

Started by mubashir55, January 19, 2012, 08:47:51 PM

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mubashir55

Salam Friends! The plot thickens !!

Here is what another brother had to say about the issue being discussed. Just sharing:

Br. Muhammad Shafi?s understanding is very interesting. If I am correct (please correct me if not), he seems to be saying that the phrase ?lam yatasanna? (the aging of years have not affected them) is actually not a statement but rather a question ?Has not the aging of years affected them?? So everything got aged except the man.

This is a believable statement.  That may be the case. However I think Allah?s question ended with ?How long have thou tarried??  The rest is the answer, not a part of the question. Allah makes the statement ?lam yatasannah?, instead of its interrogative form ?a lam yatasannah ??. Of course, I understand the question marks are not found in the classic Arabic but the particle ?a? should have been there?I think.  The other thing is that the poor man punished for asking the question?he lost his food, drink, and a donkey!  Perhaps, next time he would be careful not to ask questions.

Concerning the poster?s comments: A big problem with the notion that Allah caused the donkey to rot over 100 years but did not do that with the man and his food and drink, is that, Allah gave concrete proofs ONLY to this man to convince him while the fact is that hundreds of millions of people have the same doubt every day; How are they going to seek similar, fool-proof proofs? I believe  Allah has the SAME guidance for everyone.

Irfan


Subject: Re: 2:259

The phrase lam yatasannah in the original Arabic text means 'not deteriorated with the passage of time' and Allah Ta'ala is asking the man in question in the Verse (2:259) to see for himself whether his food and drink are not deteriorated with the passage of time and whether his donkey just reduced to broken bones. HE presents these pieces of evidence to prove to him that it was not just for a day or part of it that he had remained dead. The confusion in understanding the Verse is a result of interpreters not treating the relevant part of the Verse as a question posed to the man.

Wassalaam,
Mohammad Shafi

aabdul

salam alaikum,

I think the exposition of Parwez is very much convincing.  I am just sharing some thoughts based on parwez explanation and my thinking.  After all, Quran repeatedly directs us to ponder over Allah's verses instead of blindly falling on them.  Let me quote Parwez's exposition first, which I think is more closer to truth. 

259        (From Laws relating to an individual?s life and death We now move to the Laws relating to the life and death of nations.) As is known in history, after the destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar, the Bani-Isr?ael lived in captivity for about a hundred years. Then they were liberated and re-established in Jerusalem. This story has been narrated in the Quran symbolically as follows: A person passing through a ruined habitation asked if such a devastated place could have new life. Allah kept him in a death-like state for a hundred years, then gave him new life and asked him: ?How long have you remained in this state?? He replied: ?May be a day or so.? Allah said to him: ?You have been in this state for a hundred years but your food and drink has not gone bad and your ass is still standing as before. You should also reflect upon the process by which man develops from the embryonic state to where he becomes a living human being.? 

              When the passer-by had reflected upon the parable, he said: ?Now I can understand how Allah can give life to dead nations.?

260        Each Nabi has been confronted with the problem of giving life to a dead nation. For instance, Abraham faced such a problem and said to Allah: ?What is the process by which new life may be infused into a dead nation??. Allah asked him: ?Do you not believe that dead nations may receive new life??. Abraham said: ?I do believe but I would like to know by what process, so that I can undertake it with full confidence.? Allah explained the process to Abraham through an example. He said: ?Take four untamed birds. At first they will seek to get away from you. Make them familiar with yourself gradually. This will bring about remarkable change in them. Even if you set them free and call to them, they will come to you swiftly.? This is how you must patiently reform those who rebel against your call and bring them close to yourself and make them understand and appreciate the Divine System. This is how they will receive ?life.? Most certainly Allah is All-Mighty, Wise.


Verse 2:259 mentions about "giving life to a dead nation" قَالَ أَنَّىٰ يُحْيِي هَٰذِهِ اللَّهُ بَعْدَ مَوْتِهَا   
So the parable mentioned needed to be understood with respect to death and resurrection of a "nation" not a the death of an individual (though symbolically it is mentioned Allah caused the person who posed the question to die for 100 years).   The symbolic personality wonders whether this ruined devastated place could have new life...looking at the ruined city one might think it can never have life.  However, the devastated nation was given life after a prolonged period of 100 years.  The question how long have you remained in this state is with reference to the resurrection of the nation, since looking at the nation with full of life now no one could believe it was in death like situation for over 100 years.   The food, water and donkey are symbolic representation of the things that remained the same during the process of revival of the nation.  The verse "We may make thee a Sign unto men" refers to the lessons we can learn in the whole revival process of the nation.    And the verse "look at the bones, how We set them and then clothe them with flesh" also refers to the nation, how the devastated ruins of the city got transformed into full of life, and how the city got liberated and received a new life after its complete devastation.   And as Parwez, beautifully explained When the passer-by had reflected upon the parable, he said: ?Now I can understand how Allah can give life to dead nations.?.   The moral lesson to learn is this.  It is always possible to give life to dead nations.

By the way, it is amazing how Parwez explained the very next verse 2:260 considering the traditional understanding of its meaning.   The moral lesson in this verse is also linked to verse 2:259.   Verse 2:259 mentions about giving life to a dead nation قَالَ أَنَّىٰ يُحْيِي هَٰذِهِ اللَّهُ بَعْدَ مَوْتِهَا (qala anna yuhyee hathihi Allahu baAAda mawtiha - When will God restore it to life after its death?) and verse 2:260 also mentions about giving life to death رَبِّ أَرِنِي كَيْفَ تُحْيِي الْمَوْتَىٰ - (rabbi arinee kayfa tuhyee almawta - show me how to give life to a dead nation).   Prophet Ibrahim would not ask Allah to show him how to give life to a dead being, especially while directly communicating with Allah he would not ask such a silly question. He was asking Allah how to give life to dead nations, which was his ultimate responsibility, and Allah was teaching prophet ibrahim a beatiful lesson through a parable.
[url="//www.resurgentislam.com"]www.resurgentislam.com[/url]

Mazhar

QuoteLet me quote Parwez's exposition first, which I think is more closer to truth. 

259        (From Laws relating to an individual?s life and death We now move to the Laws relating to the life and death of nations.) As is known in history, after the destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar, the Bani-Isr?ael lived in captivity for about a hundred years. Then they were liberated and re-established in Jerusalem. This story has been narrated in the Quran symbolically as follows: A person passing through a ruined habitation asked if such a devastated place could have new life. Allah kept him in a death-like state for a hundred years, then gave him new life and asked him: ?How long have you remained in this state?? He replied: ?May be a day or so.? Allah said to him: ?You have been in this state for a hundred years but your food and drink has not gone bad and your ass is still standing as before. You should also reflect upon the process by which man develops from the embryonic state to where he becomes a living human being.? 

              When the passer-by had reflected upon the parable, he said: ?Now I can understand how Allah can give life to dead nations.?

Had Pervez done translation of some other book in this manner he would have been declared the most idiot of a translator.
[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

aabdul

if you do not know parvez kindly read two of his works;

Lughat-ul-Quran by G. A. Parvez (Arabic to Urdu){the dictionary is about the Quranic Arabic. It is the most comprehensive and authentic dictionary from Arabic to Urdu. It comprises 4 volumes (about 1800 pages).  Every word used in the Quran is explained in detail to get clear root meanings of a word - alphabetic order.  If you google check you will come across english one.  I do not think any islamic scholar today living can undertake such a task.  http://archive.org/details/LuhgatUlQuran

Also,
Tabweeb-ul-Quran (Classification of the Holy Quran ) - Three Volumes,  helps a reader to know its Quranic concept through tasreef-e-ayat   http://archive.org/details/TabveebUlQuranClassificationOfQuran
[url="//www.resurgentislam.com"]www.resurgentislam.com[/url]

Mazhar

I have hard copy of Lughat-ul-Quran by G. A. Parvez. It is transcription of Lane Lexicon in Urdu, [not directly from Arabic Lexicons] slightly abridged with a dozen or so deviations only where he wanted to project his notions.

He seldom made use of his translated Lughat while writing Mafum ul Qur'aan and Matalib Qur'an. Neither he had any desire in following the Arabic Grammar-morphology and syntax while writing his own thoughts under the Ayah of Qur'aan.

He is perhaps the worst translator of Qur'aan since nowhere he adheres to the Arabic Text of Qur'aan. 
[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]