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"Hebrew", the Children of Israel, and the Semitic Migrations

Started by Pazuzu, November 14, 2011, 03:13:19 PM

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IMHO

Quote from: Jafar on November 14, 2011, 11:24:27 PM
PS: If one try to analyze the historical facts.. he/she should do it 'objectively'.. and not letting 'today's political conflict' and/or one's own nationality / social identity or hatred and enmity towards certain group of people clouded his/her judgement...

Salam / Peace

Salaam Jafar
You gave a link from wikipedia so did I, in what way its biased and not objective  :confused:
It is an obligation upon all believers to search for the truth and to strive against wrong. To expose a tyrant country, which prides itself in being the only democracy in ME , and whose people have had access to the best education yet behave like savages is doing God's work. The Zionist entity that calls itself Israel is at present responsible for most conflicts in the world, all because they use the books of Allah to claim superiority over the whole world. No it's clearly our duty as Muslims to expose that lie against Allah.
I have had the opportunity to go to university with Israeli students and I was aghast at the arrogance of those students when treated as equal to the rest of us. I pitied them seeing that it was not their fault. They have been fed this lie, that Israelis are a superior race, since childhood and the sooner they learn that they are not superior to any other race the better it will be for them.

That said I have searched my soul to see if it's inbread predjuce which shaped my reply to you and after sleeping on it I assert that I have nothing whatsoever against Jews, Christians or Sunnis etc so long as they adhere to the best of conduct.
Allah says in the Qur'an: 49;13 O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted
This and many other ayat from the Qur'an confirm that Allah has not given superiotiy to any one group of people due to their origin. However, when we read in the Qur'an that the children of Israel were favoured over the rest of the world it seems to conflict, but wiith Pazuzu's findings this puzzle is resolved. All three books were given to the children of Israel in the same area and they were reminded of this favour over the rest of the world, but this favour was conditioned on keeping the covenant with God. The people of the book were not required to desert their book in favour of the final revelation. This shows that God did not make any book to be superior over others as they are all part of the same revelation, but He expects us all to follow our respective covenant and uphold His word to the rest of the world.
:peace:
PS: Even brother SEid agrees: Yes they spoke the same semitic mother root language/tree...
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601944.10


herbman

Hi,

now the propanganda goes one step forward and link the U.S. natives to hebrew, this is better done on a media propaganda channel they have
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgnRN-GOLLI&feature=related

They still speaks about hebrew when all linguist know a simple fact:
hebrew-samaritan-phoenician alphabet is the same!!!!!!

But still it is their discoveries thus their alphabet :0

It makes me think the same when they say:
"We protect democracy all around the world" like if they were the owner and inventor of that system!!!!!

peace


youssef4342

Peace everyone  :peace:

Hebrew and Aramaic are both sister language which have been historically both used by the Hebrew People.
Some of the Bible books were written in Aramaic, and there are some refrences to aramaic words in the Torah itself (e.g Laban, uncle of Jacob (who was from Paddan-aram) called the pile of stones Yegar- sahadutha (Aramaic) but Jacob called it Gal-Ed (Hebrew for "heap of witness").

Also, the Quran Cites a Language used which is the tongue of David and Jesus. If you read David's Psalms, you will see that they are in Hebrew. Also, Jesus must have known some Aramaic, as some biblical books are again written in Aramaic, and also because it can be said that it was the lingua franca during that time period.

"Condemned are those who disbelieved among the Children of Israel, by the tongue of David and Jesus, the son of Mary. This is because they disobeyed and transgressed.(Quran 5:78)
Facebook Group
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"Fear not those who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear the one who can destroy both the soul and the body in hell." (Matthew 10:28)

huruf

Quote from: IMHO on November 15, 2011, 07:43:44 AM
Salaam Jafar
You gave a link from wikipedia so did I, in what way its biased and not objective  :confused:
It is an obligation upon all believers to search for the truth and to strive against wrong. To expose a tyrant country, which prides itself in being the only democracy in ME , and whose people have had access to the best education yet behave like savages is doing God's work. The Zionist entity that calls itself Israel is at present responsible for most conflicts in the world, all because they use the books of Allah to claim superiority over the whole world. No it's clearly our duty as Muslims to expose that lie against Allah.
I have had the opportunity to go to university with Israeli students and I was aghast at the arrogance of those students when treated as equal to the rest of us. I pitied them seeing that it was not their fault. They have been fed this lie, that Israelis are a superior race, since childhood and the sooner they learn that they are not superior to any other race the better it will be for them.

That said I have searched my soul to see if it's inbread predjuce which shaped my reply to you and after sleeping on it I assert that I have nothing whatsoever against Jews, Christians or Sunnis etc so long as they adhere to the best of conduct.
Allah says in the Qur'an: 49;13 O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted
This and many other ayat from the Qur'an confirm that Allah has not given superiotiy to any one group of people due to their origin. However, when we read in the Qur'an that the children of Israel were favoured over the rest of the world it seems to conflict, but wiith Pazuzu's findings this puzzle is resolved. All three books were given to the children of Israel in the same area and they were reminded of this favour over the rest of the world, but this favour was conditioned on keeping the covenant with God. The people of the book were not required to desert their book in favour of the final revelation. This shows that God did not make any book to be superior over others as they are all part of the same revelation, but He expects us all to follow our respective covenant and uphold His word to the rest of the world.
:peace:
PS: Even brother SEid agrees: Yes they spoke the same semitic mother root language/tree...
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601944.10

God has favoured all peoples, in one way or another. There are no priviledged people. To think on one's people as more favoured is only a temptation to vanity and going astray. Each peopla has its destiny, all of them created by God and all of them equally worth living.

In my view all the bible talk about chosen people and the expectation of a redeemer who must come from such and such people is an invitiation to distortion of the real destiny of humanity and of the fraternity of all peoples and persons and their equal worth. More favoured in respective things, closer to God, or with advantage over others, no.

And the Qur'an says prophets have been sent to all people. This is very forgotten. The lineage that is talked of in the Qur'an is simply an ilustration of general Prophethood in each circumstance, it is not a reduction or a list of the Prophets or the best rophets and that is also one reason why, plce or age does not matter particularly, because we are not concerned with unique circumstances that may be necessary for anything. Something in the sense of : Those are prophets, there are many, but a prophet may be like this. It is not to be taken as something exclusive.

Muslims, followers of the Qur'an have been very much taken in the trap of linking their history and meaning to some Christian or Judaic patent, as if they were of the same stock, but it is not so. Qur'an is universal, all peoples have had prophets. We are not bound to any lineage because we had to wait for some messiah or other. We may not know them all world's prophets are our Prophets, and that is why we are not interested in any particular plight of any people in history as more significant than any other. All plights are significant. An that is why it is silly to expect that God is intent in setting this or that in Egypt or in Arabia or wherever, although, if the revelation is made to Muhammad it is logic that the revelation is going to illustrate its messages in those themes that are close to the people among which Muhammad lives and has grown, and not on the anciente history of ppeoples which are not the immediate matter of those among which he lives. The revelations desended in Japan or Mexico will relate to those themes that are known to the people of Japan or Mexico, logically.
An universal culture has been greatly dammaged by that exclusivity of Prophethood claimed by the Judaic-Christian tradition.

The Qur'an does not support exclusivity nor uniqueness of revelation and that is why I support Pazuzu's efforts of the efforts of anyone who wants to undo the dammage caused by monopolistic religion.

A time will come, I hope, in which people know more about other traditions and other revelations and assumme fully that it "has always rained over all of humanity" and not just over a few handpicked.

Salaam


IMHO

Quote from: huruf on November 15, 2011, 01:49:34 PM
....The Qur'an does not support exclusivity nor uniqueness of revelation and that is why I support Pazuzu's efforts of the efforts of anyone who wants to undo the dammage caused by monopolistic religion.
.......
A time will come, I hope, in which people know more about other traditions and other revelations and assumme fully that it "has always rained over all of humanity" and not just over a few handpicked.

Salaam
Salaam
[59:21]  Had We sent down this Qur'an on a mountain, verily, thou would have seen it humble itself and cleave asunder for fear of Allah, such are the similitudes which We propound to men, that they may reflect.
Humility, not arrogance is the trait of those who made a covenant with God and accepted to convey the word forward. It's not just a privilege but a trust given to us humans.
:peace:

youssef4342

Peace everyone  :group:
I would  think arrogance/pride/racism should be deemed a psychological disorder  :D
I mean look at all of us, God Guided us to this, and we're from all over the world!
God's Grace is infinite; The Jews, the Christians, and even the Muslims do not own His Grance;
no one owns his grace!
Who has not sinned? Who is pure and 100% perfect?
Have you note noted the Doctrine of Jesus? "Whoever Exalted himself will be debased" and "Whoever Humbles Himself will be exalted". This is the truth because the Devil is the most profound example i can cite. 

5:18 "And the Jews and the Nazarenes said: "We are the children of God, and His loved ones." Say: "Then why does He punish you for your sins?" No, you are merely human beings which He has created. He forgives whom He pleases, and He punishes whom He pleases. And to God is the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is in-between, and to Him is the destiny.
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"Fear not those who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear the one who can destroy both the soul and the body in hell." (Matthew 10:28)

Samia

Salaam Pazuzu

On your first post you show a burner with Aramaic writing. You say it was dug up in South Arabia, near Najran, but I did not find this information on the website of the Saudi National Museum. I found the burner, though, under Aramaic inscriptions. Can you please give a link? It would also be helpful if other proof on Aramaic being found in South Arabia so as not to consider the burner a one-off non specific incident.

As far as I know, the ancient language of South Arabia is the Sabaean. Such links will change a lot of theories  built on my understanding.

This is a copy paste from the site of the Saudi Museum:

QuoteNotes on the Origin and Development of Writing in Arabia



It is generally thought that writing gradually developed from the human, animal and other figures that prehistoric artists had been depicting on rocks for thousands of years before the first alphabets. Thousands of petroglyphs are located all over the Arabian Peninsula. To many observers, the various phases of rock art suggest that such images were initially created as an aesthetic activity, but they later became increasingly symbolic and semantic.

Writing was an important means of communication between the Arabian Peninsula and the civilizations of Mesopotamia, Syria and Egypt. Writing is thought to have originated around 3500 BC in Mesopotamia and perhaps originated independently in Egypt as well. The oldest scripts are known as Cuneiform in Mesopotamia and Hieroglyphic in Egypt. These writing systems had developed over time from the use of pictographs, signs and symbols. The available evidence suggests that writing might have developed in the Arabian Peninsula from the early Sinatic script around 2000 - 1500 BC.

By around 1000 BC two families of ancient writings had developed in the Arabian Peninsula. The one in the north (the North Arabic family) was called Musnad al-Shamali and the one in southern Arabia (the South Arabic family) was called Musnad al-Janubi.

Musnad al-Shamali (North Arabic) spread out around the first millennium BC through northern Arabia, and from this developed the Lihyanite, Safaitic and Aramaic writing systems, which flourished in the north of Arabia around the middle of the first millennium BC. From Aramaic Nabataean script and from Nabataean, Arabic writing developed.

Meanwhile the use of South Arabic forms of writing also expanded, and developed into the Sabaean, Qatabani, Hadrami, and Hassanean scripts.

With the rise of Islam, Arabic spread all over the region, both north and south, and the more ancient writing forms vanished. Thus none of these other writing systems has been in common use in Arabia for around 1,400 years.

http://www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/e_pre-islamic/preislamic.htm

Pazuzu

QuoteSalaam Pazuzu

On your first post you show a burner with Aramaic writing. You say it was dug up in South Arabia, near Najran, but I did not find this information on the website of the Saudi National Museum. I found the burner, though, under Aramaic inscriptions. Can you please give a link? It would also be helpful if other proof on Aramaic being found in South Arabia so as not to consider the burner a one-off non specific incident.

As far as I know, the ancient language of South Arabia is the Sabaean. Such links will change a lot of theories  built on my understanding.

This is a copy paste from the site of the Saudi Museum:

Yes, the oldest written alphabet in Arabia was Sabaean (Sheban), which dates back to somewhere between 2000 BC and 1500 BC  ( although Thamudic also vies for this).

I did not have access to the link for the Museum website. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.  The information I got was from an article written by a group of people of Bahrainy, Iraqi, and Saudi Arabian nationality. These were the same people who co-wrote the book "Nida'a al Surat" (Call of the Heights). There is no one single author who claims the rights to that book.

Perhaps they spoke with the Museum curator and he told them this information (that the insense burner was uncovered in the south of Saudi Arabia??)..  Anyway, how else could it be? The Saudis have not been known to STEAL archeological artifacts from OTHER'S lands and put them on display in their own museums, have they??  This is only something the CIVILIZED WEST is famous for doing.  (Which explains the presence of Sheban inscriptions in the LOUVRE Museum of Paris).

Anyway, thank you for the link. I will definately check it out again and see what I can find.

Peace...

Pazuzu

Dear Samia...

I just realized something. On the Home Page of that website, it clearly states that all the inscriptions on the site were discovered in Saudi Arabia.

Regards...

IMHO

Quote from: Pazuzu on November 14, 2011, 03:13:19 PM
Good day to all.
The following thread will not be as long as the other two. I will make no more than 3 posts here. I urge you to read this, because it is like a bridge which connects the two other threads.
Regards.
To Be Continued
Salaam Pazuzu
Looking forward to your next post on this subject.
:peace: