Convert - Shia inclined but very curious

[chickpea]

Salams,

I hope you are all well.
I am very new to Islam (started praying salat 2010, 1st read Quran Ramadan 2011) and my introduction came through Shia friends of mine.
I am both attracted and repelled by Quran only Islam. Attracted because im aware of the propensity for people to corrupt and manipulate according to their own weaknesses and desires, and this leads to me to worries about putting too much store in ahadith and being misled (i dont know too much about ahadith science as yet, but from what ive read it leads me to favour a healthy skeptisim, whilst trying not to throw the baby out with the bath water, as its unlikely that its all baloney as well. So i tend to only consider ahadith that is considered most authentic or mutawatir). Repelled because im aware of the propensity for people to corrupt and manipulate according to their own weaknesses and desires, and this leads to me to worries about people interpreting Quran to fit their own personal morality, rather than what is likely and proveable.
As im so green and very early in my Arabic learning i have to rely heavily on other people for translation and understanding, and its alarming at how wildly it can differ and how plausable opposing arguments can sound.

Anyway, i'm hoping hanging around here can help me to get to something like a comfortable resolution and hope to make some friends along the way =)

[Producer]

my stance on Hadith;

7:185
Do they not look into the realm of the heavens and the earth and everything that Allah has created and that perhaps their appointed time has come near? So in what statement/Hadith hereafter will they believe?

The Universe is a Hadith.

Al Gore make misleadings Hadith about Global Warming.

Hadith means statements.


31:6
And of the people is he who buys the amusement of speech/Hadith to mislead from the way of Allah without knowledge and who takes it in ridicule. Those will have a humiliating punishment.

2:26
Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example - that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it. And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did Allah intend by this as an example?" He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient.


Quran-Alone Muslim is incorrect based on Quran 7:185, but Ottoman Empire is killed by misleading hadiths.

misleading hadiths has been tried for 88years, it doesn't work for good. It works very effectively for evil.

there's is True Hadith & Misleading Hadith. For example Quran is a True Hadith. Rejecting all Hadith including Quran?

Quran-alone Muslim is wrong, Allah-Alone Muslim is Correct.

More discussion on "Quran-alone Muslim is wrong" here;
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603183.msg288193#msg288193

[Student of Allah]

Salams,

I hope you are all well.
I am very new to Islam (started praying salat 2010, 1st read Quran Ramadan 2011) and my introduction came through Shia friends of mine.
I am both attracted and repelled by Quran only Islam. Attracted because im aware of the propensity for people to corrupt and manipulate according to their own weaknesses and desires, and this leads to me to worries about putting too much store in ahadith and being misled (i dont know too much about ahadith science as yet, but from what ive read it leads me to favour a healthy skeptisim, whilst trying not to throw the baby out with the bath water, as its unlikely that its all baloney as well. So i tend to only consider ahadith that is considered most authentic or mutawatir). Repelled because im aware of the propensity for people to corrupt and manipulate according to their own weaknesses and desires, and this leads to me to worries about people interpreting Quran to fit their own personal morality, rather than what is likely and proveable.
As im so green and very early in my Arabic learning i have to rely heavily on other people for translation and understanding, and its alarming at how wildly it can differ and how plausable opposing arguments can sound.

Anyway, i'm hoping hanging around here can help me to get to something like a comfortable resolution and hope to make some friends along the way =)

Shalom,

You need not worry. After all, its all about living a righteous life . I dont believe that God would suffer a lose or gain from your acceptance or rejection. The reason you are given specific commands is for you. So, do your best to understand your system/way/religion better. Personally, I dont follow anything that contradicts the Qur'an. In other words, if God comes down and says its ok to do something when scholars/hadiths say otherwise, I will chose God as my savior. So any hadith you bring me, if it contradicts, it is evil in my eyes. Let me tell you something really awsome, for most part of my life as God alone muslim, I have been reading off traditionalist translations. Yes, my friend, God guides WHOEVER HE WILLS. As you mature in the field, you will notice how much knowledge you will have as you keep on Reading in the name of your Lord.

PEACE
---------------------- Student of Allah

[Student of Allah]

my stance on Hadith;

7:185
Do they not look into the realm of the heavens and the earth and everything that Allah has created and that perhaps their appointed time has come near? So in what statement/Hadith hereafter will they believe?

The Universe is a Hadith.

Al Gore make misleadings Hadith about Global Warming.

Hadith means statements.


31:6
And of the people is he who buys the amusement of speech/Hadith to mislead from the way of Allah without knowledge and who takes it in ridicule. Those will have a humiliating punishment.

2:26
Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example - that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it. And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did Allah intend by this as an example?" He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient.


Quran-Alone Muslim is incorrect based on Quran 7:185, but Ottoman Empire is killed by misleading hadiths.

misleading hadiths has been tried for 88years, it doesn't work for good. It works very effectively for evil.

there's is True Hadith & Misleading Hadith. For example Quran is a True Hadith. Rejecting all Hadith including Quran?

Quran-alone Muslim is wrong, Allah-Alone Muslim is Correct.

More discussion on "Quran-alone Muslim is wrong" here;
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603183.msg288193#msg288193

hahahhahahhahah..........LMAO........ you made my day.

God bless you

PEACE
-------------------------- Student of Allah

[Ozi Kristi-lee]

Salam,
I also converted to Islam in 2010!! I was very strict and into Hadith for about 3-4 months until I saw that they were nothing comparable to the Quran, with ridiculous stories, rules Allah never mentioned and contradictions with the Quran etc. Welcome

[chickpea]

Shalom,

You need not worry. After all, its all about living a righteous life . I dont believe that God would suffer a lose or gain from your acceptance or rejection. The reason you are given specific commands is for you. So, do your best to understand your system/way/religion better. Personally, I dont follow anything that contradicts the Qur'an. In other words, if God comes down and says its ok to do something when scholars/hadiths say otherwise, I will chose God as my savior. So any hadith you bring me, if it contradicts, it is evil in my eyes. Let me tell you something really awsome, for most part of my life as God alone muslim, I have been reading off traditionalist translations. Yes, my friend, God guides WHOEVER HE WILLS. As you mature in the field, you will notice how much knowledge you will have as you keep on Reading in the name of your Lord.

PEACE
---------------------- Student of Allah

Ws =) and thank you. In Shia Islam you cannot follow ahadith that contradicts Quran. There is of course a bias towards interpretation of certain verses in Shia tradition, but there are many Shia who are open minded about this and do not rely on Taqleed for all thier ahadith info and Quran interpretation. Many Shia's study ahadith for them selves and use the practices of hadith science to judge a hadith. You are encouraged to educate and study for yourself. There are also many beautiful and inspiring ahadith about the Ahlulbayt(as) as examples of the living Quran which have enhanced my experience of coming to Islam.

[chickpea]

Salam,
I also converted to Islam in 2010!! I was very strict and into Hadith for about 3-4 months until I saw that they were nothing comparable to the Quran, with ridiculous stories, rules Allah never mentioned and contradictions with the Quran etc. Welcome

Ws, mashAllah =)

Yes, Quran is always the primary source, hadith can be a minefield and there is, without doubt, much corruption to be identified. There is no Shia ahadith book that claims to be authentic in entirety, Shi'ites are generally very open about that, the process of ahadith verification is on going in the Shia community and you will find disagreements. It makes sense to me that the person best served to understand Quran and to exemplify its message was the Prophet(saw) and the people closest to him after that (Ali(as) and Fatima(as)) and their decendants. So their example is what Shia's strive to verify and take indpiration from as living examples of best conduct.

[rraza]

It may be that Ali and Fatima and Hassan and Hussain know the most after the prophet. But even in that case, good for them...it doesnt really affect us in the present day. They lived a good pious life and pleased God. Good on them.They passed the test with flying colours. It is our turn now. And its hard to tell fact from fiction after so many years...and its hard to follow in a persons footsteps when you dont even know them except from a few historic sources which may or may not be correct.

Im shia inclined too in the sense that my family is all shia and have a huge amount of respect for the prophet and his family. But apart from that, this preference doesnt make a difference in my spirituality or connection with God.

Peace.

[chickpea]

It may be that Ali and Fatima and Hassan and Hussain know the most after the prophet. But even in that case, good for them...it doesnt really affect us in the present day. They lived a good pious life and pleased God. Good on them.They passed the test with flying colours. It is our turn now. And its hard to tell fact from fiction after so many years...and its hard to follow in a persons footsteps when you dont even know them except from a few historic sources which may or may not be correct.

Im shia inclined too in the sense that my family is all shia and have a huge amount of respect for the prophet and his family. But apart from that, this preference doesnt make a difference in my spirituality or connection with God.

Peace.

I can understand that, i believe that there is no 1 religion, in the sense that, even if a person identifies with a certain 'path', in reality we all process and manifest that experience differently and our spiritual experience is unique to us. God knows how honest we're being in our intentions to find truth and whether we are looking to fit ourselves into truth or looking to fit truth into ourselves. There are things in Islam i struggle with, regardless of sect affiliation and its a struggle to ascertain how much i resist because of cultural bias informing my morality. This is the greatest danger with Quranists i think, its hugely appealing perhaps more because of our weaknesses (ego, distress at what might be very uncomfortable truths to a modern, though not necessarily correct, but easy morality), though i dont doubt that many Quranists have a genuin desire to ascertain God's law, irrespective of how difficult the reality of that law may be to come to terms with in a 21st century time and place culture. If we're not struggling we're probably not on the right path, i dont think its meant to be easy.

[Student of Allah]

Ws =) and thank you. In Shia Islam you cannot follow ahadith that contradicts Quran. There is of course a bias towards interpretation of certain verses in Shia tradition, but there are many Shia who are open minded about this and do not rely on Taqleed for all thier ahadith info and Quran interpretation. Many Shia's study ahadith for them selves and use the practices of hadith science to judge a hadith. You are encouraged to educate and study for yourself. There are also many beautiful and inspiring ahadith about the Ahlulbayt(as) as examples of the living Quran which have enhanced my experience of coming to Islam.

Shalom,

The shia people will obviously not subscribe to sunni documents. If you really want to see their "openness" to truth, simply ask them to show you where in the Qur'an did they get the briefing of the righteousness of Ali or Muhammad's family. The shias and sunnis decided to idolize via 2 different systems. So it is not a surprise that when you go to them with questions designed for sunnis, they will tend to look so much open for correction. I do not know the prophet and his family members personally, so one should not interpret what I say as attack on them. I am only attacking, if at all, their idolization.

PEACE
------------------- Student of Allah