Author Topic: Taxes  (Read 14171 times)

progressive1993

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Re: Taxes
« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2012, 09:42:20 PM »
2:256
There shall be no compulsion in the religion.

Thus, Its a mutual Consent, The People, pay the Government to Defend them from Other Tyrannical Government.

People Make Govt to defend From Other Govt, Especially Evil Govt.

Only Allah is King, not Government, Government Serve God by Serving the People.

It clearly says:

8:41 You should know: Of anything you gain, that one-fifth shall go to God and the messenger: to the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer. You will do this if you have faith with God and in what We revealed to Our servant on the day of distinction, the day the two armies clashed. God applies due measure to/has power over all things.


Pay you Taxes Voluntarily. I don't feel volunteer to pay taxes. Maybe in 1000years later I may get the feeling to Voluntarily pay taxes.   :)


Tax done to fund the State Govt. Tariff is a tax on Import, protecting the State Local Industry.

Tax the State, Cheap imports will weaken the State. US free trade for example, Taxing the state, no tariff for imports(free trade).

Right... That is why they have an embargo against Cuba...
10:41 If they deny you, say: "My works are for me, and your works are for you. You are innocent of what I do, and I am innocent of what you do."

Abdun Nur

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Re: Taxes
« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2012, 02:30:58 AM »
Salaam progressive,

I notice you are intentional perverting the guidance of the Qur'an to your own corruption, sighting Ayah 8:41 as if it was referencing taxation upon a population, is that the action of a Muslim?

There is no compulsion in the Deen of Islam, and taxation is always imposed, so you are compelled through threat or force of arms to comply, therefore taxation cannot be anything to do with the Deen of Islam, you need consider no other ayah, as all ayahs must maintain the guidance expressed by all and every other ayah.

Cuba is a system of corporation where the corporate government is all powerful, they impose regulation, taxation, legislation but surpress all forms of competition and function upon total monopoly, this creates stagnation. This form of corporation is the furthest structure of order from the Islamic model; the Islamic model has no government, no sovereigns, no ownership beyond that which you create yourself, no taxation, no legislation, no representatives, no charters, no constitutions, no statutes, no acts, no treaties and no corporations.

good logic

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Re: Taxes
« Reply #52 on: June 19, 2012, 11:15:17 AM »
Peace Abdun Nur.

What about GOD , HE asks that we should serve only HIM.. Or are you going to tell us there is no God either.

Peace.

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Lena

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Re: Taxes
« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2012, 08:51:11 AM »
It clearly says:

8:41 You should know: Of anything you gain, that one-fifth shall go to God and the messenger: to the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer. You will do this if you have faith with God and in what We revealed to Our servant on the day of distinction, the day the two armies clashed. God applies due measure to/has power over all things.
[/color]

8:41  You missed out the reference to war booty - the 1/5  only applies to war booty.

         (Khalifa)  You should know that if you gain any SPOILS IN WAR, one fifth shall go to God and his messenger
         (Hilali)      And know that whatever of WAR BOOTY you may gain, verily one fifth is assisned to Allah and the
                         Messenger

youssef4342

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Re: Taxes
« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2012, 04:58:47 PM »
peace & greetings to you guys as well

yes 8:41 would be talking about spoils of war
however, we note other verses to give from what God has provided us, and not to hoard or be stingy....
By doing this, there would readily be available money around...

however, Annual Taxation would not be religiously compulsory.
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Sir Comcision

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Re: Taxes
« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2012, 12:38:43 PM »
We should institute a zero percent tax on everything.
"For those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron."
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progressive1993

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Re: Taxes
« Reply #56 on: July 15, 2015, 05:36:49 PM »
20% can be applied as a tax by an Islamic state.

That's not true. The 20% is in the context of war. 20% of the spoils of war should he donated as charity.

Also, even charity is VOLUNTARY. There can't be compulsion. Quran has state laws and personal values/morals/practices to follow.
10:41 If they deny you, say: "My works are for me, and your works are for you. You are innocent of what I do, and I am innocent of what you do."

progressive1993

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Re: Taxes
« Reply #57 on: November 25, 2017, 09:49:27 PM »
Notice how it never says "go to court" or "collect taxes" or "go to prison" or "vote for politicians."

4:29 O you who acknowledge! Do not consume one another's money unjustly. There shall only be trade that is mutually agreed by you. And do not destroy one another. God is Compassionate towards you.

Riba is forbidden to begin with. This verse is about all other transactions and makes it clear that wealth can only pass from one person to another through trade and mutual agreement. This verse forbids (compulsory) taxation and other forms of theft, extortion and illicit gain.

4:35 If you all experience a split between the two, send a judge/an arbiter from his family and a judge/an arbiter from hers. (If they want to reconcile, then God will bring them together. God is Knowledgeable, Ever-aware.)

Anyone can be a judge. You dont need a government license - only knowledge and respect.

4:58 God commands you to give back anything the people have entrusted to you. If you judge among the people, you shall judge equitably. The best enlightenment indeed is what GOD recommends for you. GOD is Hearer, Seer.

This verse is often distorted to justify parliamentary majoritism (commonly referred to as "democracy"), when in reality it has to do with the opposite: give back anything the people have entrusted to you - not delegate offices!

4:59 O you who believe, you shall obey God, and you shall obey the messenger and those in charge among you. If you dispute in any matter, you shall refer it to GOD and the messenger, if you do believe in GOD and the Last Day. This is better for you, and provides you with the best solution.

"Those in charge" can mean various things that arent governmnt. Government is a violent entity, not "people in charge."Do you know any government that implements the God's law? Of course not. See the next verse:

4:60 Did you not see those who claimed they acknowledged what was sent down to you and what was sent before you? They wanted to seek judgment through taghoot*, while they were ordered to reject it. It is the devil who wants to lead them astray.

*ideologues, politcians, heroes - all fake authorites

Parliamentary majoritism is not condoned:

42:36 So whatever you are given is simply an enjoyment of the worldly life, and what is with God is far better and more lasting for those who acknowledge and put their trust in their Lord....

42:37 ...and who avoid gross harm and lewdness, and when they are angered, they forgive.

42:38 ...and who respond to their Lord by upholding the salat. Their rule/command is conducted by mutual consultation among themselves, and from Our provisions to them they give.

2:219 ...They ask you what to donate, say, "Whatever you can spare." Thus, God clarifies for you the signs that you may think.

This does not tell the messenger to force them to pay anything, let alone a fixed amount. If it did, verses about stinginess and people criticizing some people for giving much and poor people for givng nothing would not make sense.

Layth advocates tht the "islamic state" tax (read: steal) 20% of people's income. That is a twisted distortion.

8:39 You should fight them all until there is no more tribulation, and so that the entire obligation/responsibility is for the god. If they cease*... (God is seer of what they do.)

* i.e. if they cease, dont fight them anymore

8:40 But if they turn away*... Know that God is your patron: What an excellent patron, and what an excellent helper.)

i.e. keep fighting if the continue

8:41 And you should know: Of anything you gain of spoils, one-fifth shall go to God and the messenger, to the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer." You will do this if you acknowledge God and in what We revealed to Our servant on the day of distinction, the day the two armies clashed. God is able to do all things.

This is confirmed further along the chapter:

8:67 It was not for any prophet to take prisoners unless it was during warfare in the region. (You desire the materials of this world, while God wants the Hereafter for you. God is respected, wise.)

8:68 Had it not been for a predetermined decree from God, a severe punishment would have afflicted you for what you took.

8:69 So consume what you have gained of spoils, lawful and good, and be aware of God. God is Forgiving, Compassionate.

Taking prisoners and spoils are an exception for war. Clearly these are spoils of war, not profit or wealth! Other than in war, there is no concept of prisoners. The closest things to it is house arrest (4:15)
10:41 If they deny you, say: "My works are for me, and your works are for you. You are innocent of what I do, and I am innocent of what you do."

Abdun Nur

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Re: Taxes
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2021, 12:07:48 PM »
Peace all,

a state is a feudal construct designed to hold the masses under the control of a wealth elite of jinn (psychopaths), it imposes riba upon land use, taxation is imposing on the use of your labours, rental is imposing on your use of infrastructure, profit is imposing on your access to resources, and interest bearing debt is the result of the five forms of riba working in unison. Riba is NOT trade.

Trade is the reciprocal exchange of the fruits of my labour for the fruits of someone else’s labour. So clearly Usury (riba) is not trade.

Usury is a one-sided extraction of the fruits of the labours of another, which has 5 basic forms:

Debt (the interest demand for the use of money)

Profit (the interest demanded for the use of capital)

Rental (the interest demanded for the use of infrastructure)

Taxation (the interest demanded for the use of your labour)

Ownership (the interest demanded for the use of land through the fiction of eminent domain originating through feudalism)

So could Islam allow any of these five basic forms of riba? Well, as we are, well claimed to be, at war with riba, I think it's a no brain'er.