Author Topic: A WOMAN AS MESSENGER  (Read 8877 times)

Sidi

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Re: A WOMAN AS MESSENGER
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2012, 03:34:37 AM »
You are such a sexist. Of course women were also messengers and prophets, no where does the quran say otherwise. Unfurtunately your sexism has no place in the quran.

Salam

Proof to me from The Quranic perspective

Maha

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Re: A WOMAN AS MESSENGER
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2012, 05:57:45 AM »
Proof to me from The Quranic perspective

didnt you red my post? proof otherwise to me from The Quranic perspective.
''No one has ever made himself great by showing how small someone else is''

Sidi

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Re: A WOMAN AS MESSENGER
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2012, 10:19:33 PM »
I have already given you my proof

Read 03:42

huruf

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Re: A WOMAN AS MESSENGER
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2012, 03:12:11 AM »
Quote
I have already given you my proof

Read 03:42

You must be out of your mind to write what you have written. I didn't answer the first time out of charity, but you insist. What you write qualifies you, it doesn't qulify anybody else. You were born of a mother, but you speak as if you were born of a pig, and male pig at that, not even a female. God commands us to be conscious of al arham, not to despise them. Look at yourself a little.

That you dare speak with such disdain of a person chosen by God himself as an aya, you must be out of your senses.

And since you dare talk about cleansing, you certainly should clean your mouth and mind, and you should not be in such hurry to write utter nonsense and do at least some thourough searching of the tahhara thing before spewing such idiocies. Just say right away that there has been no prophets or messengers at all and you would have finished the question.

Pray to God that He makes you humble and just, just, just, just, a little tiny bit wee wise, not in hurry, it could break you.

Salaam




NOMAD

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Re: A WOMAN AS MESSENGER
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2012, 07:32:32 AM »
Salaam to all :sun:

I was going trough some Alquimichal texts when i find out this about MYRYAM( MUSA and Harun sister, and Isa mother ) : (translation is acording to bible names but its almost acurate with MYRYAM BEING Prophetess as AQ tells us too 

Mary the Prophetess

The practise of Mary the Prophetess in the Alchymicall Art.
Aros the Philosopher had a meeting with Mary the Prophetess the Sister of Moyses, and approaching to her, he paid her respect and said unto her. O Prophetess, I have truly heard many say of you that you whiten the Stone in one day.
And Mary said, Yea, Aros, even in a part of one day.
Aros said: O Lady Mary, when will the Work be which you affirm? How shall we whiten and afterwards add blackness?
Mary said; O Aros, oftentimes Nations have dyd about this part. Know you not, O Aros; that there is a water or a thing which whitens Hendragem?
Then Aros answering said to her. O Lady it is so as you say, but in a long time.
Mary answered, Hermes in all his Books has said that the Philosophers whiten the Stone in one hour of the day.
Aros said to her, Oh how excellent is that?
Mary said, it is most excellent to him that is ignorant of it.
Aros said, if men have all the four Elements, he [Hermes] said that their fumes might be compleated, and complexioned, and coagulated, and retained in one day, untill they doe fullfill the consequence (i.e. attain the end).
Mary said, O Aros, by God, if thy senses or understanding were not solid, you should not hear these words from me, untill the Lord should fill my Heart with the grace of his divine Will. Nevertheless take the Allum of Spain, the white gumm and the red gumm, which is the Kibric of the Philosophers, and their Sol and the greater Tincture, and marry Gumm with Gumm togeather with a true Matrimony. Mary said, make them like a running Water, and vitrify this water which has been laboured or wrought upon for one day, out of the two Lubechs, upon the fixed body, and liquefy them by the secret of Nature in the Vessel of Philosophy. Did you understand us?
Yes Lady.
Mary said, Keep the fume and take care that none of it fly away. And let your measure be with a gentle fire such as is the Measure of the heat of the Sun in the Month of June or July, and stay by your Vessel and behold it with care how it grows black, grows red, and grows white in less than three hours of the day, and the fume will penetrate the body, and the Spirit will be bound up, and they will be like milk, incerating, and liquefying and penetrating: and that is the secret.
Aros said I do not say that this will be allways.
Mary said unto him: Aros, and this is more wonderfull concerning this, that it was not among the Ancients, nor did it come to him by curing, or by the Medicinall Art and that is take the white, clear and honoured Herb growing on the Hillocks, and pound it fresh as it is in its Hour, and that is the true Body not flying from the Fire.
And Aros said it is the Stone of Truth?
And Mary said yes. But yet men know not this regimen (rule or way of working) with the speediness thereof.
Aros said, and what afterwards.
Mary said, vitrify upon it Kibric or Zibeic and there are the two fumes comprehending the two Lights, and project upon that the complement of the Tinctures of the Spirits, and the weights of Truth, and pound it all, and put it to the Fire, and you shall see wonderfull things from them. The whole goverment consists in the temper of the Fire, O how strange it is, how it will be moved from one colour to another, in less than an hour of the Day, untill it arrive at the mark of redness and whiteness, and cast away the Fire and permit it to cool, and open it and you will find the clear pearly Body to be of the Colour of the Poppy of the Wood mixt with whiteness and that is it which is incerating, liquefying and penetrating, and one golden piece thereof, the weight of a small golden Coin, falleth upon a thousand thousand and two hundred thousand. That is the hidden secret.
Then Aros fell down upon his face.
And Mary said to him, Lift up your head Aros: because I will shorten for you the thing, as that clear body which is thrown upon the Hillocks, and is not obtained by putrefaction or motion. Take and pound it with Gumm Elsaron, and with the two fumes because the Body comprehending or retaining them is Gumm Elsaron and grind it all. Therefore approach because it all melts. If you project its wife upon it, it will be as a distilling Water, and when the Aire shall strike it, it will be congealed and be one body, and make projection of it, and you will behold Wonders: O Aros that is the hidden secret of Scholia; and know that the said two fumes are the Root of this Art, and they are the white Kibric and the humid calx, but the fixed Body is of the Heart of Saturn comprehending the Tincture, and the Fields of Wisdom or of Scholia. And the Philosophers have named it by many and all names, and received or gathered from the Hillocks it is a clear white Body, and these are the medicine of this Art, part is procured and part is found upon the Hillocks; and know Aros that the wise men have not called it the Fields of Wisdom, or of Scholia, unless because Scholia will not be compleated but by it; and in the Scholia there are nothing but wonderfull things. For there also enters into them the four Stones, and its true regimen is as I have said. And that is first Scoyare, Ade, and Zethet; by that make your Allegory as Hermes has done in his Books Scoyas, and the Philosophers have allways made the regimen longer, and have resembled the work to every thing which ought not to make the work, and they make the Magistery to be in one year, and this but onely for hiding it from the ignorant people, untill it be confirmed in their Hearts and their senses (till they believe the Art),: because the Art will not be compleated except only in Gold; because it is the great secret of God: and they who hear of our secrets doe not verify them (nor believe them to be true), by reason of their ignorance. Did you understand Aros?
Aros said yes. But tell me about that vessel, without which the Work will not be accomplisht.
Mary said that the Vessel of Hermes which the Stoicks have concealed, and it is not a Necromanticall Vessel, but it is the Measure of your Fire.
Aros said: O Lady you have obeyed (been a scholar) in the Society of Scoyari: O Prophetess, have you found among the Secrets of the Philosophers, which they have set down in their Books, that any one can make the Art out of one Body?
And Mary said: Yes: which Hermes has not taught, because the Root of Scholia is a body which cannot be made smooth or plain and incurable (unconquerable) and it is a poyson mortifying all bodies, and it pulverises them and coagulates Mercury with its odour. And shee said, I swear to you by the eternall God, that that poison when it is dissolved untill it is made a subtile Water, I care not by what dissolution it is done, does coagulate Mercury into Luna with the strength of Truth, and it falls into the Throne of Jupiter, and forms him into Luna. And the Science is in all Bodys, but the Stoicks, by reason of the shortness of their lives, and the Length of the Work, have concealed this; and they found out these tinging Elements, and they increased them, and all the Philosophers teach them, except the Vessel of Hermes, because it is divine, and of the Wisdom of the Lord hidden from Nations: and they who are ignorant of it, know not the Regimen of Truth, because of their Ignorance of the Vessel of Hermes.

Mary briefly soundeth forth
Strange things like Thunder round the Earth.
She with two Gumms makes the Bottome stay
What else would fly away.
Three things if you three hours attend
Are chained together in the End.
Mary the Light of dew, and Art has got
In three hours to tye the Knot.
Pluto's daughter, it is she
Who bindeth Loves confederacy
Joyned with three seeds she does aspire
To be exalted in the Fire.


http://www.sacred-texts.com//alc/maryprof.htm

Its just curious per si this issue of Myryam and Philosofical stone, any ideias on this subject? :sun:

SALAAM TO ALL :pr
(2:26) Allah is not shy to strike a parable whatsoever a gnat or larger. Those who believe know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for those who disbelieve they ask: 'What could Allah mean by this parable? By it, Allah misleads many and guides many. ' But He misleads none except the evildoers

Maha

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Re: A WOMAN AS MESSENGER
« Reply #45 on: March 12, 2012, 02:39:01 PM »
I have already given you my proof

Read 03:42

 :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Thanks for giving me a good laugh by giving 03,42 as a '''proof'' :rotfl: :rotfl:. You just confirmed to me that you are a sexist who obviously knows nothing about the quran.

May Allah guide you.

''No one has ever made himself great by showing how small someone else is''

Maha

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Re: A WOMAN AS MESSENGER
« Reply #46 on: March 12, 2012, 02:42:22 PM »
You must be out of your mind to write what you have written. I didn't answer the first time out of charity, but you insist. What you write qualifies you, it doesn't qulify anybody else. You were born of a mother, but you speak as if you were born of a pig, and male pig at that, not even a female. God commands us to be conscious of al arham, not to despise them. Look at yourself a little.

That you dare speak with such disdain of a person chosen by God himself as an aya, you must be out of your senses.

And since you dare talk about cleansing, you certainly should clean your mouth and mind, and you should not be in such hurry to write utter nonsense and do at least some thourough searching of the tahhara thing before spewing such idiocies. Just say right away that there has been no prophets or messengers at all and you would have finished the question.

Pray to God that He makes you humble and just, just, just, just, a little tiny bit wee wise, not in hurry, it could break you.

Salaam

I agree with sister huruf 100% on this.

Peace
''No one has ever made himself great by showing how small someone else is''

Sidi

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Re: A WOMAN AS MESSENGER
« Reply #47 on: March 12, 2012, 05:35:41 PM »
You must be out of your mind to write what you have written. I didn't answer the first time out of charity, but you insist. What you write qualifies you, it doesn't qulify anybody else. You were born of a mother, but you speak as if you were born of a pig, and male pig at that, not even a female. God commands us to be conscious of al arham, not to despise them. Look at yourself a little.

That you dare speak with such disdain of a person chosen by God himself as an aya, you must be out of your senses.

And since you dare talk about cleansing, you certainly should clean your mouth and mind, and you should not be in such hurry to write utter nonsense and do at least some thourough searching of the tahhara thing before spewing such idiocies. Just say right away that there has been no prophets or messengers at all and you would have finished the question.

Pray to God that He makes you humble and just, just, just, just, a little tiny bit wee wise, not in hurry, it could break you.

Salaam


18:57 “Who is more sinful than those who are reminded of their Lord’s revelations, then disregard them, without realizing what they are doing. Consequently, We place shields on their hearts to prevent them from understanding it (the Quran), and deafness in their ears. Thus, no matter what you do to guide them, they can never be guided”

Huruf & Maha

You can say whatever you like about me, I don't give a damn, AND YOU DUNT HAVE TO REMIND ME WHERE I CAME FROM. I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST WOMEN. I HAVE WOMEN IN MY LIFE WHOM I LOVE AND RESPECT. THERE ARE LOTS OF WOMEN IN THIS FORUM AND I RESPECT THEIR VIEWS. As for Huruf & Maha, you are too emotional and

by refusing to accept 03:42 and that

FIRST: The Quran is the word of God.
SECOND: The Quran is perfect with no contradictions.
THIRD: The Quran is comprehensible and with no ambiguity.
FOURTH: That the Quran is straightforward with no crookedness.
FIFTH: The Quran is complete.
SIXTH: The Quran is fully detailed, and it encompasses all matters

you have directly accused ALLAH of contradicting HIMSELF and for those who have EVIL thoughts about ALLAH,

THIS IS WHAT ALLAH SAID


[48:6] And He will requite the hypocrite men and women and the idol worshipping men and women, for they have harbored evil thoughts about GOD. Their evil will backfire against them. For GOD is angry with them, condemns them, and has prepared for them HELL. What a miserable destiny!



Huruf, you and your fancy words full of nonsence and Maha laugh as much as you can - FOR BOTH OF YOU ARE


2:18    DEAF, DUMB, and BLIND, THEY WILL NOT RETURN.


@Nomad

Salam Bro,

16:89    And the Day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. And We have sent down to you the Book as a clarification for all things, and a guidance and a mercy and good tidings to those who have submitted.

It is for the Quran to explain and not the other way round.

Salam

Abdul-Hadi

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Re: A WOMAN AS MESSENGER
« Reply #48 on: March 12, 2012, 11:41:22 PM »
Greetings and Peace, all  :group:

You look at all the ocurrences of the word rajul/rijal in the Qur'an and will see that in some of them it means any person, not a male.

<snip>


@huruf: With respect, where are these ocurrences found?

Rajul/rijal is often contrasted with women.


2:228 And those divorced shall wait for three menstruation periods; and it is not lawful for them to conceal what GOD has created in their wombs, if they believe in GOD and the Last Day. And their husbands would then have just cause to return together, if they both wish to reconcile. And the obligations owed to them are to be fulfilled, as are the obligations owed by them. But the men [walilrrijāli] will have a greater responsibility over them in this. And GOD is Noble, Wise.

2:282 O you who believe, if you borrow for a future period, then you shall record it. And let a scribe of justice record it for you; and let not the scribe refuse to record as GOD has taught him. Let him record and let the person who is borrowing dictate to him, and let him be aware of GOD, and let him not reduce from it anything. If the one who is borrowing is immature or weak or he cannot dictate himself, then let his guardian dictate with justice; and bring two witnesses from among your men [rijālikum]; if there are not two men [rajulayni], then a man [farajulun] and two women [wa-im'ra-atāni] from whom you will accept their testimony, so that if one of them becomes blindsided, then the one can remind the other. And let the witnesses not refuse to come if they are called. And do not fail to record it no matter how small or large until its maturity. That is more just with GOD and better for the testimony, and better that you do not have doubts; except if it is a trade to be done on the spot between you, then there is no sin upon you if you do not record it. And have evidence if you trade. No scribe shall be harmed nor any witness; for if you do so then it is a wickedness on your part, and be aware of GOD and GOD teaches you and GOD is aware of all things.

4:1 O people, be aware of your Lord who has created you from one person and He created from it its mate and sent forth from it many men [rijālan] and many women [wanisāan]; and be aware of GOD whom you ask about, and the relatives. GOD is Watcher over you.


ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

huruf

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Re: A WOMAN AS MESSENGER
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2012, 02:45:03 AM »
Salaam, Abdu-hadi,

I wouln't mind doing it if right now I had the time and mind to set out for the job, I ddid if before, that is why a know what I said.

However, I suggest that you yourself, making use of the Project root list or of Qur'an corpus find out ALL the ocurrences of rjul or rijal in the Qur'an and verify them and their meaning in context.

Also note that in the qur'an when it is said that messengers were rijal it is said precisely in the context that they were not extraterrestrial, nor angels, nor any other kind of "nonhumans" in one of the cases, it is expounded that they ate and did other things that beings of flesh do. For anybody with stock in establishing and imposing that only males can be Prophets, that kind of misuse of words may make sense. For somebody sincerely dedicated to understand the full and intended meaning of what is said, undeoubtedly the words of the Qur'an will not lead him or her to take pride in petty self congratulations for things that at any rated go overhead of most of us, as is to be pure like the Prophets and messengers, included Maryam were.

All people, included prophets cleansed themselves and were cleansed by God, because pure and clean is only Allah. His creatures must purify, all of them, in order tor eturn to Him.

Salaam