Author Topic: Tashahhud?  (Read 5631 times)

Indelwyn

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Tashahhud?
« on: June 16, 2011, 10:51:06 AM »
History of Tashahud during prayer. I have read a million different things but it seems the ending result this is all hadeeth based and there is no proof that Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) did this.. of course he would sound like an idiot speaking of himself in the third person.. anyway, any info you guys have come across as far as the history? I have been told by my Imam I am HARAM and I will never know prayer if I continue with this "crazy" idea of Qur'an only.... needless to say I was.. speechless, but not surprised.


Thanks again,

Peace :)

Christine
"Victory is changing the hearts of your opponents by gentleness and kindness."- Saladin

KDC501

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Re: Tashahhud?
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2011, 04:27:01 PM »
History of Tashahud during prayer. I have read a million different things but it seems the ending result this is all hadeeth based and there is no proof that Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) did this.. of course he would sound like an idiot speaking of himself in the third person.. anyway, any info you guys have come across as far as the history? I have been told by my Imam I am HARAM and I will never know prayer if I continue with this "crazy" idea of Qur'an only.... needless to say I was.. speechless, but not surprised.


Thanks again,

Peace :)

Christine


It is your imam that is the crazy one. If you truly believe that the Quran Alone is all you need then you are more intelligent in your religion than he is. People who enjoy following hadiths like being bottle fed.  They can't think for themselves and they can't reason. They are like parrots.

Sura 2:171 The example of those who are unappreciative is like the one who repeats what he has heard of calls and shouts; deaf, dumb, and blind; they do not reason.

God says in several places in the Quran that his book is complete and that the ONLY duty of Muhammad was to deliver the Quran. If anyone says and follows otherwise they are blocked from God's grace and are not guided. The Hadith and Sunna is like a guessing book. It is filled with contradictions. No one can be 100% sure about what is the truth and what is falsehood.

Sura 6:116 If you obey the majority of those on earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

And even if we did know what is true we are commanded to follow only the Quran.

17:46 We place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and deafness in their ears. If you mention your Lord in the Quran alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.

Sura 7:185; 12:111; 31:6; 39:23;45:6; 52:34; 56:81; 68:44; 33:38; 35:43; 40:85;  :jedi:







Indelwyn

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Re: Tashahhud?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2011, 07:58:05 AM »
Thanks so much for the reply and the Surah's. I was told to read 4:65 and my answer would be there. However when I did read it, for me it supported my Qu'ranist view even more. I did not just read this ayah, I read about 6 above and a few below. Granted this was english translation as I don't understand Arabic yet.

4:65
But nay, by thy Sustainer! They do not [really] believe unless they make thee [O Prophet] a
judge of all on which they disagree among themselves, and then find in their hearts no bar to an
acceptance of thy decision and give themselves up [to it] in utter self-surrender.

I feel judging between matters and tell someone something is this or that or a story are two very different things. I would be curious if someone could tell me if in Arabic it means "Judge".

"Victory is changing the hearts of your opponents by gentleness and kindness."- Saladin

mubashir55

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Re: Tashahhud?
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2011, 12:52:38 PM »
Any thoughts on Tashahdud friends? Why do we read it when the Apostle (on whom be peace)  is no longer here?

 :-\

BornAgain

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Re: Tashahhud?
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2011, 02:43:51 AM »
Any thoughts on Tashahdud friends? Why do we read it when the Apostle (on whom be peace)  is no longer here?

 :-\

Salaam,

Traditional muslims believe that we need to send blessings to Muhammad, as per this ayat:


"Lo! Allah and His angels shower blessings on the Prophet. O ye who believe! Ask blessings on him and salute him with a worthy salutation." (33:56)

There are some hadiths that are in support of mentioning Muhammad's name during the tashahud, such as:


We asked God's messenger this question, "How is the blessing to be invoked on you who belong to the prophetic family? God has taught us [only] how to salute you." He told us to say, "O God, bless Muhammad and Muhammad's family as Thou didst bless Abraham and Abraham's family. Thou art indeed praiseworthy and glorious. O God, grant favours to Muhammad and Muhammad's family as Thou didst grant favours to Abraham and Abraham's family. Thou art indeed praiseworthy and glorious."


Abu Huraira reported God's messenger as saying: "If anyone would like to have the fullest measure granted him when he invokes blessings on us, the members of the prophetical family, he should say, "O God, bless Muhammad the ummi prophet, his wives who are the mothers of the faithful, his offspring, and the people of his house as Thou didst bless the family of Abraham. Thou art indeed praiseworthy and glorious.

Anyway, I don't buy it of course.
?For peace of mind, we need to resign as general manager of the universe.?

?When you judge another you do not define them, you define yourself.?

?Time may heal physical pain but only love can heal emotional pain.?

?My life has been full of terrible misfortunes, most of which never happened.?

progressive1993

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Re: Tashahhud?
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2011, 04:29:05 PM »
Salaam,

Traditional muslims believe that we need to send blessings to Muhammad, as per this ayat:


"Lo! Allah and His angels shower blessings on the Prophet. O ye who believe! Ask blessings on him and salute him with a worthy salutation." (33:56)

It's: "Surely, God and his forces/"angels" support/connect unto/bond with the prophet. [Now the relevant part for the believers:] O you who have trust, support/connect unto/bond with the prophet and comply fully.

This is about engaging with the prophet, following him and complying to his message, which is from God. In other words, the basic meaning is: follow and obey God because "whoever obeys the messenger has obeyed God; and for whomever that turns away, We have not sent you as a guardian" (4:80).
10:41 If they deny you, say: "My works are for me, and your works are for you. You are innocent of what I do, and I am innocent of what you do."

progressive1993

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Re: Tashahhud?
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2011, 04:35:27 PM »
And now to the original topic....

3:18 God bears witness ("shahida allahu") that there is no god but He ("annahu la ilaha illahu"), as do the angels, and those with knowledge. He is standing with justice. There is no god but Him ("la ilaha illahu"), the Noble, the Wise.

This is the testimony ("shahahda") that Muhammad used. Your imam does not use it because he is not among "those with knowledge". I do not think that it is needed in/part of "salat", since one needs to read, obey the messages in the quran in salat. Of course, if one comes across a verse with this testimony ("shahada"), one can reflect upon it, and it would technically become part of your "salat".
10:41 If they deny you, say: "My works are for me, and your works are for you. You are innocent of what I do, and I am innocent of what you do."

mmkhan

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Re: Tashahhud?
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2011, 04:22:10 AM »
History of Tashahud during prayer. I have read a million different things but it seems the ending result this is all hadeeth based and there is no proof that Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) did this.. of course he would sound like an idiot speaking of himself in the third person.. anyway, any info you guys have come across as far as the history? I have been told by my Imam I am HARAM and I will never know prayer if I continue with this "crazy" idea of Qur'an only.... needless to say I was.. speechless, but not surprised.

Salaam,

20:14 اِنَّنِیۡۤ اَنَا اللّٰہُ لَاۤ اِلٰہَ اِلَّاۤ اَنَا فَاعۡبُدۡنِیۡ ۙ وَ اَقِمِ الصَّلٰوۃَ لِذِکۡرِیۡ
20:14 Surely I am Allah, there is no god but I, therefore serve Me and keep up Salaat for My remembrance:

Purpose of Salaat is to remember Allah alone as per 20:14. How to remember others [but not in Salaat] is said in the following aayaats:

19:16 وَ اذۡکُرۡ فِی الۡکِتٰبِ مَرۡیَمَ ۘ اِذِ انۡتَبَذَتۡ مِنۡ اَہۡلِہَا مَکَانًا شَرۡقِیًّا
And remember Marium in the Book when she drew aside from her family to an eastern place

19:41 وَ اذۡکُرۡ فِی الۡکِتٰبِ اِبۡرٰہِیۡمَ ۬ؕ اِنَّہٗ کَانَ صِدِّیۡقًا نَّبِیًّا
And remember Ibrahim in the Book; surely he was a truthful man, a prophet.


If Allah wanted to remember Mohammed's name in Salaat it would have mentioned in AlQuraan which I don't find. But Salaat is purely for remembrance of Allah as per 20:14 above.


May Allah guide us all to His true path  :pr
Mohammed M. Khan

6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51

Bigmo

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Re: Tashahhud?
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2011, 09:58:57 AM »
Salaam,

20:14 اِنَّنِیۡۤ اَنَا اللّٰہُ لَاۤ اِلٰہَ اِلَّاۤ اَنَا فَاعۡبُدۡنِیۡ ۙ وَ اَقِمِ الصَّلٰوۃَ لِذِکۡرِیۡ
20:14 Surely I am Allah, there is no god but I, therefore serve Me and keep up Salaat for My remembrance:

Purpose of Salaat is to remember Allah alone as per 20:14. How to remember others [but not in Salaat] is said in the following aayaats:

19:16 وَ اذۡکُرۡ فِی الۡکِتٰبِ مَرۡیَمَ ۘ اِذِ انۡتَبَذَتۡ مِنۡ اَہۡلِہَا مَکَانًا شَرۡقِیًّا
And remember Marium in the Book when she drew aside from her family to an eastern place

19:41 وَ اذۡکُرۡ فِی الۡکِتٰبِ اِبۡرٰہِیۡمَ ۬ؕ اِنَّہٗ کَانَ صِدِّیۡقًا نَّبِیًّا
And remember Ibrahim in the Book; surely he was a truthful man, a prophet.


If Allah wanted to remember Mohammed's name in Salaat it would have mentioned in AlQuraan which I don't find. But Salaat is purely for remembrance of Allah as per 20:14 above.


May Allah guide us all to His true path  :pr
Mohammed M. Khan

I don't do any Tashahud when I pray. I guess its OK just like some Christians praise Jesus when they pray. But its not a requirement as far as I know.
88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe