Author Topic: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)  (Read 10579 times)

KDC501

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Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« on: June 25, 2011, 09:03:02 AM »
From Sura 18:83 ? 99 is a short story of Zul-Quranain and Gog and Magog. Does anyone have any theories or ideas about who is Zul-Qarnain and who or what are Gog and Magog?

Peace,

Kevin D.Cooper

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2011, 09:19:16 AM »
Salam Kevin..

This has been discussed in the forum on other thread.. i'm too lazy to search for it now..

However my opinion still stand:
1. Dzul-Qarnayn = The One With Two Horns = Cyrus The Great of Ancient Persian Kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhul-Qarnayn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great_in_the_Quran

2. Gog and Magog
People originated from central asia steppes..
As of now... a 'wall' or even mountain will not be any hindrance for people to do 'invasion'..
Now people fought war with cruise missiles, jet airplane and other modern weaponry.. wall or mountain are rendered useless to hold an invasion from another nation / people / country.

As thus, the prophecy has came true few centuries ago.. especially if you watch history closely..
We have witnessed the waves of 'invasion and mass migration' of people coming from high steppes of central asia which happened and spanned over multiple centuries.. The Huns, The Turks, The Mongols are some of them who are quite famous.. they all originated from the steppes of central asia..

The most 'successful' are of course the mongols which manage to set the world record as the biggest empire ever known to man, spanning from Austria up to Beijing. The Turks.. well they managed to find a home now in a country called "Turkey" and they were once conquered a vast area over Mediterranean region during the "Ottoman" era, The Huns gene has mingled with most european, although people of modern Bulgaria claim that they're the most 'purest descendant' of the Huns...

Salam / Peace

KDC501

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2011, 01:25:51 PM »
Salam Kevin..

This has been discussed in the forum on other thread.. i'm too lazy to search for it now..

However my opinion still stand:
1. Dzul-Qarnayn = The One With Two Horns = Cyrus The Great of Ancient Persian Kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhul-Qarnayn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great_in_the_Quran

2. Gog and Magog
People originated from central asia steppes..
As of now... a 'wall' or even mountain will not be any hindrance for people to do 'invasion'..
Now people fought war with cruise missiles, jet airplane and other modern weaponry.. wall or mountain are rendered useless to hold an invasion from another nation / people / country.

As thus, the prophecy has came true few centuries ago.. especially if you watch history closely..
We have witnessed the waves of 'invasion and mass migration' of people coming from high steppes of central asia which happened and spanned over multiple centuries.. The Huns, The Turks, The Mongols are some of them who are quite famous.. they all originated from the steppes of central asia..

The most 'successful' are of course the mongols which manage to set the world record as the biggest empire ever known to man, spanning from Austria up to Beijing. The Turks.. well they managed to find a home now in a country called "Turkey" and they were once conquered a vast area over Mediterranean region during the "Ottoman" era, The Huns gene has mingled with most european, although people of modern Bulgaria claim that they're the most 'purest descendant' of the Huns...

Salam / Peace

I have been thinking it over for a very long time and I don?t believe that Gog and Magog have already appeared

I believe they will appear prior to the end of the world

21:95 It is forbidden for a town that We destroy that they would return;
21:96 Until Gog and Magog is opened, and from every elevated place they will race forth.
21:97 The promise of truth draws near. Then, when it is seen by the eyes of those who rejected: "Woe to us, we have been oblivious to this. Indeed, we were wicked!" 

The Facts:

It is quite clear from the above verses that Gog and Magog have not yet appeared during the time of Muhammad. But were meant to appear after the Quran was revealed.

 21:96 Until Gog and Magog is opened, and from every elevated place they will race forth. ( The barrier wasn?t open during the period when the Quran was revealed.)


Recap : The barrier (made of iron) was built for the specific purpose of blocking Gog and Magog

18:94 They said, "O Zulqurnain, Gog and Magog are destroyers of the land, and so shall we make a tribute for you that you will make between us and them a barrier?"

18:95 He said, "What my Lord has given me is far better. So help me with strength and I will make between you and them a barrier."

18:96 "Bring me iron ore." Until he leveled between the two walls, he said, "Blow," until he made it a furnace, he said, "Bring me tar so I can pour it over."

18:97 So they could not come over it, and they could not make a hole

18:98 He said, "This is a mercy from my Lord. But when the promise of my Lord comes, He will make it rubble. The promise of my Lord is truth."

18:99 We left them till that day to surge like waves on one another. The horn was blown so We gathered them together. (prior to the end of the world)

Where is this iron barrier? And if it existed during the period of Cyrus (which was hundreds of years before the Quran was revealed ) wouldn?t it be reasonable to say that the gate would be open during Muhammad's time after all those years???  The answers to these questions have led me to believe that Cyrus the Great may not be  Zulqurnain , also that the barrier most likely did not exist (as yet)

18:98  He said, "This is a mercy from my Lord. But when the promise of my Lord comes, He will make it rubble. The promise of my Lord is truth."
18:99 We left them till that day to surge like waves on one another. The horn was blown so We gathered them together. (prior to the end of the world)


Things to note : The prophecies dealing with the splitting of the moon (which occurred in 1969 Sura 54:1 ) the Romans (sura 30:1-4), and the creature made of earthly materials ( Sura 27:82  which I believe to be the computer) are in the past tense just like the Gog and Magog prophecy and Zulqurnain. 
Where are Gods signs presently to show us who or what are Gog and Magog?



Pazuzu

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2011, 03:41:55 AM »
Quote
The prophecies dealing with the splitting of the moon (which occurred in 1969 Sura 54:1 )


Man never set foot on the moon. It was all a staged event, shot in a studio, and directed by NASA. There is a magnetic field which surrounds the Earth called the Van Allen Belt. The human body cannot withstand 5 minutes beyond this belt. They would get fried. Until now, technology does not exist to build spaceships that can protect from the deadly radiation. The Apollo "moonlanding" was one of the  greatest hoaxes that the "sheeple" of the world have been led to believe. Many astronauts knew this truth and were silenced by being conveniently "killed" in rocket launch disasters.

Wake up, please.


Student of Allah

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2011, 05:20:17 PM »


Man never set foot on the moon. It was all a staged event, shot in a studio, and directed by NASA. There is a magnetic field which surrounds the Earth called the Van Allen Belt. The human body cannot withstand 5 minutes beyond this belt. They would get fried. Until now, technology does not exist to build spaceships that can protect from the deadly radiation. The Apollo "moonlanding" was one of the  greatest hoaxes that the "sheeple" of the world have been led to believe. Many astronauts knew this truth and were silenced by being conveniently "killed" in rocket launch disasters.

Wake up, please.



Salam,

Its not entirely true from what I can see. The only thing that baffles me is the development in US space technology all of a sudden just prior to the Apollo mission. It was a very very very very very huge development over russian Space systems. That is what confuses me, Russia is the one who was well ahead, how did the Americans perfect everything all of a sudden? Yet, I have reasons to "believe" it was not fake. It was not fake, and it was not fake. :P


Now, on the topic:
My friends always try to discuss who this dude Zul-Qarnain and another wise guy found in the story of Musa is.... I hope you guys discuss and find the answer for me. Because I have very less interest in finding out things that dont benefit me the slightest bit from a religious text.

PEACE

------------ Student of Allah

KDC501

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2011, 07:07:22 AM »


Man never set foot on the moon. It was all a staged event, shot in a studio, and directed by NASA. There is a magnetic field which surrounds the Earth called the Van Allen Belt. The human body cannot withstand 5 minutes beyond this belt. They would get fried. Until now, technology does not exist to build spaceships that can protect from the deadly radiation. The Apollo "moonlanding" was one of the  greatest hoaxes that the "sheeple" of the world have been led to believe. Many astronauts knew this truth and were silenced by being conveniently "killed" in rocket launch disasters.

Wake up, please.



I don?t believe in conspiracy theories unless there are facts to back it up. So far the experts (who are educated people) have proven that man did go on the moon in 1967.

http://www.braeunig.us/space/hoax.htm
http://www.clavius.org/envrocks.html

Peace,

Kevin

KDC501

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2011, 09:07:10 PM »
I have been doing a lot of studying into the Gog and Magog prophecy. What I have found out is that this prophecy is prominent not only among the Christians but the Jews as well. However I will focus on the Jewish interpretation of Gog and Magog and not the Christian view (which is found in the Book of Revelations).


Here's an idea of what some of the Jews believe ....

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/beliefs/Theology/Afterlife_and_Messiah/Messianism/The_Messianic_Age/Gog_and_Magog.shtml

"Gog and Magog are the peoples who will wage war against the Jews before the advent of the Messiah. These two names appear in the vision of the prophet Ezekiel (Ezekiel 38, 39) where Gog is the ruler of the country of Magog. Gog will lead his people in war against the land of Israel but will be defeated and God alone will reign supreme."


It is a common belief among the Jews that a Messiah (the anointed one) would arise during the end of times  "to reconquer the land of Israel, rebuild the Temple, and establish God's reign on earth."

The Messianic Idea in Judaism - http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm

"The mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15)"


It has been my view for a very long time that Zul-qurnain is a person who will exist in the future. So far , I have not found any person(in history) who I believe can perfectly  fit the description of Zul-qurnain.  This among other things in the Quran makes me believe that Zul-qurnain is a figure of the future and not the past.


Could Zul-qurnain ( the man of two eras, epochs, centuries ; or the Two horned one) be this Messianic figure in the future???

The Jewish  idea of a Future Messiah fits neatly into the type of person that Zul-qurnain is.

In the Quran (Sura 18: 83-99 ) Zul-qurnain is described as having "the means to everything". He has political influence in the far west and and the far east (His authority covers the Globe ) . Who among the people in history has power the likes of this that spans the entire Globe???

Also if this person was a figure of the past (as some believe) then where is this iron barrier???


Questions such as the above makes me believe more and more that Zul-qurnain is futuristic figure and not a persona of the past.



Peace,

Kevin





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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2011, 10:32:52 AM »
Thank you Kevin KDC501 for the post and the links.

I agree totally with you.
God has no Religion!

God is running everything.

Peace begins with me.

Sweetflower87

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2013, 10:24:18 AM »
Peace be upon you KDC501,

I find your topic very interesting, even if it's a pretty old thread.

Nonetheless your given information and thoughts about the prophecy of Zulqarnain together with Gog and Magog are very strong and I agree with you on this matter. Praise be to God alone.
I am curious if you have been continuing in studying this matter, and if so what your recent update is.

I am hoping we will be able to talk, study and meditate together on this, God willing.

Furthermore I would like to invite you to read and reflect on a recent thread I have been written about ia. the subjects of the prophecies that are about to come in our (near)future. In sha Allah you will take your time and you will recognize the Truth in it.

The thread can be found on http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606040.msg342947;topicseen#msg342947

My salams and talk to you soon God willing.
God bless.

My beliefs have changed since end of 2014. Most of the threads and comments I have posted on this forum are no longer applicable. If anyone is interested to interact, you may PM me. Praise be to God

Israfeel

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2013, 05:27:19 AM »
The word Qarn means horn as well as generation. If we take the latter meaning, Zul Qarnain (peace be upon him) means the one who possesses two horns. To comprehend the identity of the Prophet Zul Qarnain (peace be upon him) we must understand the context of the verses of Surah al Kahf and the reason for their revelation. The Jewish rabbis specifically asked the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) about Zul-Qarnain and to explain his story as proof of his prophethood. Therefore, bearing this context in mind we see that Zul Qarnain is someone whom the Jewish rabbis learned in the scriptures are aware of.

Therefore, in conjunction with the Vision of Daniel as narrated in the old testament, I believe that Zul Qarnain was a great Persian king and conqueror who may be identified with Cyrus the Great. In the vision of Daniel (Daniel chapter 8 ), he saw a two-horned ram which was marching in three directions (west, north and south). The Quran also mentions three different expeditions of Zul Qarnain in three different directions.

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2013, 02:41:56 AM »

Quran is just not the history of the past but continuation of the entire history of man ever alive from the day one, for all time to come.

Yajuj and Ma'juj are certain communities of people who rejected humility and obedience before Allah and transgressed in oppression of obedience and humility before Allah and who caused chaos amidst peace loving people. Because of their pride they are shaitans' accomplices and who would be a fuel along with the stones, to the hellfire on the fateful day. They are present everywhere in all times in history and would always be there spanning the globe, till the end of the world. They were allowed by the Almighty to reach to their heights of aggression until the Hour arrives for the world. When the Hour has come and the command 'Be' is air-borne and blown, their eyes would be in a fixed-stare; they would see and hear very clearly all that they did and all that they spoke and cannot miss out on a thing. They would know their fate for good. They would descend and scatter like locusts from their heights of mountainous pride and rush towards hellfire.

Ya'juj and Ma'juj are such mean people making to such monstrous proportions, themselves with such arrogance, that they are destined for hell to be the fuel of fire.


Quran reading is useless unless we decisively stick to righteousness in our lives, at least to an extent possible. Based on such status Allah Guides, in such a way  http://foolproofcure.net/index.aspx   that we do not transgress after receiving His Mercy.

KDC501

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2013, 08:56:24 PM »
Hello folks,
I haven't been on this for a very long time I hope everyone is ok , alive and well. Due to the avid nature of one of the members here on the forum who asked me my point of view with regards to who is the Zulqurnain I have decided to make a post after such long time in exile.lol.

As you all know the Arabic word Zulqurnain can be translated as "Two Eras/Centuries/Epochs" or Two Horns. After careful study I have concluded that the proper translation must be TWO HORNS or Two Horned One.

The question that needs to be asked is Why was this question asked and who are the people that asked this question??

18:83 And they ask you about Zul-Qarnain, say: "I will recite to you a memory from him."   
Note: "They ask you" implies this was question that was asked to Muhammad

Well for starters, we can make several deductions
(1) This verse implies a question
(2) This verse implies that Zul-Qurnain is a person that was known
(3) This verse implies the knowledge of PAST scripture.

Who else other than the Jews would ask this question?? I mean think about it?? The Jews are the only people (recorded by the Quran) to have inspired scripture. So it is mostly likely that the JEWS are the people that asked this question.
Thus if we go on this hypothesis we can further investigate the claim that this question was asked by the Jews....If the jews asked this question about the Zulqurnain then WHO IS HE TO THE JEWS??

This is where my investigation during the past months of this year came to conclusion. Like the forum member that requested my response I too have been very inquisitive with regards to who the Zulquarnain is. I am now certain that I have found the answer.
The Zulquarnain or the "Two Horned One" is none other than Messiah Ben Joseph.


Check the link : bit.ly/1eUvamF

& Check the link : http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10729-messiah

In the bible for those people that are aware of the scripture there are TWO messiah's NOT ONE. There is one messiah who is suppose to be from the tribe of Judah(the one David belonged too) and ANOTHER messiah who according to Jews is suppose to come BEFORE Messiah Ben David.

Messiah Ben Joseph is the messiah that comes from the tribe of Joseph. The term "Two Horned One" comes from  Deuteronomy Chapter 33 in the Bible in which Moses before his death told the "future of the tribes of Israel "

In this chapter Moses says
"13 About Joseph he said:

?May the Lord bless his land
    with the precious dew from heaven above
    and with the deep waters that lie below;
14 with the best the sun brings forth
    and the finest the moon can yield;
15 with the choicest gifts of the ancient mountains
    and the fruitfulness of the everlasting hills;
16 with the best gifts of the earth and its fullness
    and the favor of him who dwelt in the burning bush.
Let all these rest on the head of Joseph,
    on the brow of the prince among[e] his brothers.

17 In majesty he is like a firstborn bull;
    his horns are the horns of a wild ox.
With them he will gore the nations,
    even those at the ends of the earth.

Such are the ten thousands of Ephraim;
    such are the thousands of Manasseh.?

The key phrase that coined the nickname "Two Horned One" is " In majesty he is like a firstborn bull; his horns are the horns of a wild ox. With them he will gore the nations, even those at the ends of the earth. "
This where the Jews started to use the term  "Two Horned One" to describe Messiah Ben Joseph.

So now that we are certain who Zulqurnain is(not entirely but figuratively) and WHERE the term came from, we now ask the question if anyone in history has fitted the characteristics of this person. My guess is absolutely no one.lol.

Cyrus the great cannot be the Zulqurnain because he was a pagan, nor could Alexander the great because he was a butcher and a pagan.lol.
The Zulquarnain from my understanding after studying both the bible , Jewish history and the Quran is a monotheist , a righteous man with enormous influence in the world. He is perhaps a ruler , who has great knowledge and military power.  Most Jews(if not all) believe that he has not existed as yet. My guess is there is still one more messenger out there that would shake up the world in the future.

Peace

Kevin D.Cooper



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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2014, 07:31:02 AM »
Peace be upon you brother and to all who are reading and studying this,

Thank you for responding on the thread. Praise be to God.

I would like to note a few things and explain them to you, step by step, God willing. May God increase our knowledge and inspire each other to recognize the truth in every matter and especially for now the prophecies that are connected with Dhul Qarnain, because it is a very interesting and important subject that we should be aware of in the current time we are living in.
 
Why and who asked the question about the identity of Dhul Qarnain?

In the following verse we can see that Mohammed had no knowledge about the past scriptures ...

29:48 You did not read the previous scriptures, nor did you write them with your hand. In that case, the rejectors would have had reason to harbor doubts.

And there for people were asking about Dhul Qarnain because he's mentioned in the Quran and because there were no proofs or traces of his existence of this figure in the past.

And we know that God is Knower of the Future (praise be to God) and is able to cite events from our future in the past tense. He does this so Dhul Qarnain could be revealed to the world according with God?s chosen miracle at its decreed time.

True believers can find the Truth in ALL the scriptures.

We also should focus on all sources about the topic and can not just say we will take note of the Old and ignore from the New Testament, because they all come from God and none should be ignored.

By studying all the Scriptures in the light of the confirming and superseding Quran, we are able to connect the pieces of the puzzles that will give us a clear picture, with more knowledge and wisdom, God willing.

[4:136] O you who believe, you shall believe in GOD and His messenger, and the scripture He has revealed through His messenger, and the scripture He has revealed before that. Anyone who refuses to believe in GOD, and His angels, and His scriptures, and His messengers, and the Last Day, has indeed strayed far astray.

We also find the following verses to confirm that we ought to seek for knowledge that are written in the previous scriptures. For example the book of Enoch has been left out from many versions of the Bible, while it is clear that we will find truth in it.

[21:105] We have DECREED IN THE PSALMS, AS WELL AS IN OTHER SCRIPTURES, that the earth SHALL BE INHERITED BY MY RIGHTEOUS WORSHIPERS.

[19:56]And MENTION IN THE SCRIPTURE Idris. He was a saint, a prophet. (ENOCH) [19:57] We raised him to an honorable rank.

[21:85]Also, Ismail, Idris, Zal-Kifl (EZEKIEL); all were steadfast,patient. ( See Ezek 38-39)

Dhul Qarnain is from the tribe of Judah:

Psalms 132 11 The Lord has sworn in truth to David; He will not turn from it: ?I WILL SET UPON YOUR THRONE THE FRUIT OF YOUR BODY.

REV5 : 5 But one of the elders said to me, ?Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, THE ROOT OF DAVID, HAS PREVAILED to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.?
12 If your sons will keep My covenant And My testimony which I shall teach them, Their sons also shall sit upon your throne forevermore.? 13 For the Lord has CHOSEN ZION; He has desired it for His dwelling place: 14 ?This is My resting place forever; Here I will dwell, for I have desired it. 15 I will abundantly bless her provision; I will satisfy her poor with bread. 16 I will also clothe her priests with salvation, And her saints shall shout aloud for joy. 17 There I will make the horn of David grow; I will prepare a lamp FOR MY ANOINTED. 18 His enemies I will clothe with shame, But upon Himself His crown shall flourish.?

Signs for the appearance of Dhul Qarnain and his rejection before the victory:

LUC 17
22 Then He said to the disciples, ?The days will come when YOU WILL DESIRE TO SEE ONE OF THE DAYS OF THE SON OF MAN, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, ?Look here!? or ?Look there!? Do not go after them or follow them. 24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day.

25 But first HE MUST SUFFER MANY THINGS AND ...BE REJECTED ...BY THIS GENERATION.

26 And AS IT WAS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH, SO IT WILL BE ALSO IN THE DAYS OF THE SON OF MAN:

27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

QURAN [54:2]Then THEY SAW A MIRACLE; BUT THEY TURNED AWAY AND SAID, "OLD MAGIC." [54:3] They disbelieved, followed their opinions, and adhered to their old traditions. [54:4] Sufficient warnings have been delivered to alert them. [54:5] Great wisdom; but all the warnings have been in vain. [54:6] Ignore them; the day will come when the caller will announce A TERRIBLE DISASTER. [54:7] With their eyes humiliated, they come out of the graves like scattered locusts. [54:8] As they respond to the caller, the disbelievers will say, "This is a difficult day."

[54:9] THE PEOPLEOF NOAH DISBELIEVED BEFORE THEM. THEY DISBELIEVED OUR SERVANT AND SAID, "CRAZY!" HE WAS PERSECUTED.

QURAN [12:110] Just when the messengers despair, AND THINK THAT THEY HAD BEEN REJECTED, our victory comes to them. WE THEN SAVE WHOMEVER WE CHOOSE, WHILE OUR RETRIBUTION FOR THE GUILTY PEOPLE IS UNAVOIDABLE.

The victory comes and Dhul Qarnain will be set upon the throne to rule among the people with the TRUTH of ALL of God?s revelations:

Psalms 102
12 But You, O Lord, shall endure forever, And the remembrance of Your name to all generations. 13 YOU WILL ARISE AND HAVE MERCY ON ZION; For the time to favor her, Yes, the set time, has come. 14 For Your servants take pleasure in her stones, And show favor to her dust. 15 So the nations shall fear the name of the Lord, And all the kings of the earth Your glory. 16 FOR THE LORD SHALL BUILD UP ZION; HE SHALL APPEAR IN HIS GLORY. 17 He shall regard the prayer of the destitute, And shall not despise their prayer. 18 This will be written for the generation to come, That a people YET TO BE CREATED may praise the Lord. 19 For He looked down from the height of His sanctuary; From heaven the Lord viewed the earth, 20 To hear the groaning of the prisoner, To release those appointed to death, 21 TO DECLARE THE NAME OF THE LORD IN ZION, AND HIS PRAISE IN JERUSALEM, 22 WHEN THE PEOPLES ARE GATHERED TOGETHER, AND THE KINGDOMS, TO SERVE THE LORD.

[5:48] Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. YOU SHALL RULE AMONG THEM IN ACCORDANCE WITH GOD'S REVELATIONS, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed. [5:49] YOU SHALL RULE AMONG THEM in accordance with GOD's revelations to you. Do not follow their wishes, and beware lest they divert you from some of GOD's revelations to you. If they turn away, then know that GOD wills to punish them for some of their sins. Indeed, many people are wicked.

Dhul Qarnain versus Gog and Magog:

(*Zal-Kifl )EZEKIEL38

NOW THE WORD OF THE LORD CAME TO ME, SAYING,

2 ?SON OF MAN...,
set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, ...AND PROPHESY AGAINST HIM..., 3and say, ?Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal.

7 ?Prepare yourself and be ready, you and all your companies that are gathered about you; and be a guard for them. 8 After many days you will be visited. IN THE LATTER YEARS YOU WILL COME into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people ON THE MOUNTAINS OF ISRAEL, which had long been desolate;?.THEY WERE BROUGHT OUT OF THE NATIONS, ? ...AND NOW ALL OF THEM DWELL SAFELY....

9 You will ascend, coming like a storm, covering the land like a cloud, you and all your troops and many peoples with you.?

10 ?Thus says the Lord God: ?On that day it shall come to pass that thoughts will arise in your mind, and you will make an evil plan: 11 You will say, ?I will go up against a land of ...UNWALLED VILLAGES; I will go to a peaceful people, who dwell safely, all of them dwelling ...WITHOUT WALLS, and having neither bars nor gates?

12 to take plunder and to take booty, to stretch out your hand against the waste places that are again inhabited, AND AGAINST A PEOPLE GATHERED ?.FROM THE NATIONS, who have acquired livestock and goods, who dwell in the midst of the land.

14 ?Therefore, son of man, PROPHESY AND SAY TO GOG, ?Thus says the Lord God: ?On that day when MY PEOPLE ISRAEL DWELL SAFELY, will you not know it?

16 You will come up against My people Israel like a cloud, to cover the land. IT WILL BE IN THE LATTER DAYS THAT I WILL BRING YOU AGAINST MY LAND, so that the nations may know Me...,

[18:94] They said,"O Zul-Qarnain, Gog and Magog are corruptors of the earth. Can we pay you to create a barrier between us and them?"

[18:95] He said, "My Lord has given me great bounties. If you cooperate with me, I will build a dam between you and them. [18:96]"Bring to me masses of iron." Once he filled the gap between the two palisades, he said, "Blow." Once it was red hot, he said, "Help me pour tar on top of it." [18:97]Thus, they could not climb it, nor could they bore holes in it.

[18:98] He said, "This is mercy from my Lord. WHEN THE PROPHECY OF MY LORD COMES TO PASS, He will cause the DAM TO CRUMBLE. THE PROPHECY OF MY LORD ISTRUTH." [18:99] At that time, we will let them invade with one another, then the horn will be blown, and we will summon them all together.


God has given Dhul Qarnain commandments that can be found in the Quran. And these commandments are directly connected with the revelations inside all the scriptures, such as book of Ezekiel, Enoch, The New Testament, The Old Testament and the Final Testament, the 7 pairs etc.

[14:44] You shall....warn the people of the day WHEN THE RETRIBUTION COMES TO THEM. ... Those who transgressed will say, "OUR LORD, GIVE US ONE MORE RESPITE. We will then respond to Your call and follow the messengers." Did you not swear in the past that you will last forever? [14:45] YOU DWELLED IN THE HOMES OF THOSE BEFORE YOU, WHO WRONGED THEIR SOULS, and you have seen clearly what we did to them. We have set many precedents for you. [14:46] They schemed their schemes, and GOD is fully aware of their schemes. Indeed, their schemes were sufficient to erase mountains.

[15:87] We have given you THE SEVEN PAIRS, AND THE GREAT QURAN. [15:88] Do not be jealous of what we bestowed upon the other (messengers), and do not be saddened (by the disbelievers), and lower your wing for the believers. [15:89] And proclaim: "I AM THE MANIFEST... WARNER." [15:90] We will deal with the dividers. [15:91] They accept the QURAN ONLY PARTIALLY.

Words destined for this Messenger/Ruler which he must recite to his servants/believers from the Quran and please pay attention to the subtlety of God, you can miss it if you are going too fast...

[39:10]... Say, "?.O My servants who believed...***, you shall reverence your Lord." For those who worked righteousness in this world, a good reward. GOD's earth is spacious, and those who steadfastly persevere will receive their recompense generously, without limits.

[39:11] Say, "I have been commanded to worship GOD, devoting the religion absolutely to Him alone.
[39:12] "And I was commanded to be the utmost submitter." [39:13] Say, "I fear, if I disobeyed my Lord, the retribution of a great day."

[39:53]*** ...Proclaim:... "O My servants ...***who exceeded the limits, never despair of GOD's mercy. For GOD forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, Most Merciful." [39:54] You shall obey your Lord, and submit to Him totally, before the retribution overtakes you; then you cannot be helped. [39:55] And follow the best path that is pointed out for you by your Lord, before the retribution overtakes you suddenly when you least expect it. [39:56] Lest a soul may say, "How sorry I am for disregarding GOD's commandments; I was certainly one of the mockers."

Who are Gog and Magog?

Dhul Qarnain and the believers will be confronted with a people who were binded to the earth for *70 generations * and as we can learn from the Quran that Gog and Magog are the ONLY community that are allowed to return. All other communities that have been annihilated before are forbidden to return.

We can see this if we place the verses of Enoch next to the book of Revelations :

Enoch 10 8 Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted 9 through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin.' And to Gabriel said the Lord: 'Proceed against the bastards and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy the children of the Watchers from amongst men : send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in 10 battle: for length of days shall they not have. And no request that they make of thee shall be granted unto their fathers on their behalf; for they hope to live an eternal life, and 11 that each one of them will live five hundred years.' AND THE LORD SAID UNTO ***MICHAEL***: 'GO, BIND SEMJAZA AND HIS ASSOCIATES who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves 12 with them in all their uncleanness. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, BIND THEM FAST FOR ***SEVENTY GENERATIONS*** IN THE VALLEYS OF THE EARTH, TILL THE DAY OF THEIR JUDGEMENT AND OF THEIR CONSUMMATION, till the judgement that is 13 for ever and ever is consummated. IN THOSE DAYS THEY SHALL BE LED OFF ?.***TO THE ABYSS OF FIRE****: and 14 to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all 15 generations. AND DESTROY ALL THE SPIRITS OF THE REPROBATE AND THE CHILDREN OF THE WATCHERS, because 16 they have wronged mankind. Destroy all wrong from the face of the earth and let every evil work come to an end: and let the plant of righteousness and truth appear: and it shall prove a blessing; the works of righteousness and truth' shall be planted in truth and joy for evermore. 17 And then shall ALL THE RIGHTEOUS ESCAPE, And shall live till they beget thousands of children And all the days of their youth and their old age Shall they complete in peace.

18 And then shall the whole earth be tilled in righteousness, and shall all be planted with trees and 19 be full of blessing. And all desirable trees shall be planted on it, and they shall plant vines on it: and the vine which they plant thereon shall yield wine in abundance, and as for all the seed which is sown thereon each measure (of it) shall bear a thousand, and each measure of olives shall yield 20 ten presses of oil. And cleanse thou the earth from all oppression, and from all unrighteousness, and from all sin, and from all godlessness: and all the uncleanness that is wrought upon the earth 21 destroy from off the earth. And all the children of men shall become righteous, and all nations 22 shall offer adoration and shall praise Me, and all shall worship Me. And the earth shall be cleansed from all defilement, and from all sin, and from all punishment, and from all torment, and I will never again send (them) upon it from generation to generation and for ever.

***As you can see life on earth will be continuing after the reappearance of this Evil community and God's Kingdom will endure till the end of the world . Revelations 12

7 And war broke out in heaven: ***MICHAEL ***AND HIS ANGELS FOUGHT WITH THE DRAGON; AND THE DRAGON AND HIS ANGELS FOUGHT, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; HE WAS CAST TO THE EARTH, AND HIS ANGELS WERE CAST OUT WITH HIM. 10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, ?Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of ( His Christ-anointed )have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! FOR THE DEVIL HAS COME DOWN TO YOU, HAVING GREAT WRATH, BECAUSE HE KNOWS THAT HE HAS A SHORT TIME.? rev 19

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. THESE TWO WERE CAST ALIVE INTO ***THE LAKE OF FIRE*** BURNING WITH BRIMSTONE.

The people (a woman) chosen by God will have a chosen one (Child)Messenger ruler against the Evil army, with him are 12 disciples (rev 21)

Revelations 12

Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on HER HEAD A GARLAND OF TWELVE STARS.

2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.

3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having SEVEN HEADS AND TEN HORNS, and seven diadems on his heads.

4 His tail drew a THIRD OF THE STARS OF HEAVEN AND THREW THEM TO THE EARTH. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.

5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. AND HER CHILD WAS CAUGHT UP TO GOD AND HIS THRONE.

Dhul Qarnain already is among us!:

Dhul Qarnain task started in Jan 30 2011 and he's born on 19 November 1980 the same birthday as Rashad Khalifa

and his mission is in the first stage as a Messenger is to warn the people about the smoke and shortly and about the big stroke, that will happen shortly after that. (Quran 44:10 )

We can find more about this when we can examine a more detailed description of the prophecy of the Smoke inside the book of Revelations. (5th trumpet rev 9)

Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit. 3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months. Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6 In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.

The book of Revelations has a full description of the 7 pairs and therefor the 7 pairs mentioned inside the Quran are not only destined to point out the end of the world in 2280 by its Quranic initials.

This book of Revelations contains the chronological order of events of the 7 Seals and 7 trumpets. As we know the 5th trumpet is the Smoke and the 7th trumpet will be the big stroke as we know from Surah 44.

The book of Enoch, Idris and the Quran confirms a lot of details from the book of Revelations ?

All the details will be included in the following articles In sha Allah.

May God bless you for the efforts you are willing to take and may God guide us and protect us from any devil interference when seeking for the Truth.
My beliefs have changed since end of 2014. Most of the threads and comments I have posted on this forum are no longer applicable. If anyone is interested to interact, you may PM me. Praise be to God

KDC501

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2014, 10:26:26 AM »
Dear SweetFlower87,

Firstly I'll like to thank you for you contribution towards this debate. It is refreshing to know that there is someone that see's my point of view with regards to the prophecy of the Zul-Qurnain. However there are a few things that I will like to note about your last post.

Now your hypothesis about the book of Enoch.
When I first read 19:57 in the Quran my initial interpretation of the verse is that it wasn't referring to the book of Enoch by rather a reference to Enoch in the past scripture ( general reference not a specific reference to a book).

19:56 And recall in the Scripture Enoch; he was a man of truth, a prophet.

The verse never mentioned anything about THE book of Enoch. It merely states that the Enoch  is mentioned in the old scriptures this does not necessarily mean that scripture is THE book of Enoch. It could also mean the Book of Genesis in which Enoch was also mentioned.


You have to remember that some of the scriptures in the past have been tampered with. Using the light of the Quran we can 'sift out' the bad from the good in the previous scriptures. We can also use the past scriptures as a baseline to formulate theories about other aspects of the Quran that are unknown like for instance the Zulqurnain

The book of Enoch from my understanding is most likely a book that was written hundreds (perhaps thousands) of years after Enoch died. This is why most Jewish scholars have not canonize this book nor is it recognized by scholars to be an authentic source.

Another book is the book of Daniel which is also a book that perhaps could have been written many years after the episode of Israel and Babylon. Did you know that most jews do not consider Daniel to be a prophet??  Also there is no mention of Daniel in the Quran?? So how can we be sure that the Book of Daniel is a book to be trusted?? Basically an ideas that may come from the Book of Daniel cannot be said as factual but merely conjectural.  So I urge you to be careful.

Also with regards to the New Testament, even the Quran acknowledges the fact that the SOME of the writings of the Gospel are factual that doesn't mean that we should take the entire writings of the book as truthful. That wouldn't be a good idea since there is no way to tell what ideas are truthful and what ideas are false.
The Quran is your base. There is no mention in the Quran of John ( Jesus' disciple, not John the Baptist) to be a prophet or even a messenger. So how can we trust the Book of Revelations???

When I came up with my hypothesis for the Zulqurnain I used the QURAN as a base since it is mentioned there. And FROM THE QURAN i gathered all the characteristics of the Zulqurnain and tried to MATCH IT with a persona of the PAST scriptures.  From that I was able to conclude that the Zulqurnain was a person that Jews would know of as Messiah Ben Joseph(The Two Horned One)


It is not wise to take all books from the past even those among the christians as truthful without first looking at the Quran. The Qur'an is your base. Using books like Daniel and Revelations is straying from your base to the unknown and unproven conjectural knowledge.


Peace ,

Kevin D. Cooper

Sweetflower87

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2014, 08:31:43 AM »
Peace be upon you brother,

You are welcome and the feeling is mutual. I am thankful that God?s puts us in situations that can make us gain more knowledge and wisdom in order to strife for certainty about the truth so that we may attain higher ranks of faith and submission, God willing. So I would like to thank you as well for your input.

I agree with you that we have to be careful whenever we decide to study God?s Scriptures. It is essential to take responsibility about how and what information we decide to accept and believe in.

As God states in Quran 17:36 You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.

This is extremely important to apply on each Scripture, including the Quran. As we can already witness among the so called Muslim communities who accept the Quran as the Truth, still failed to recognize, understand and believe in the real message that it contains.

It is why we are also commanded to seek refuge in God from the rejected Satan, whenever we read the Quran, as even the believers can easily misunderstand the message God is teaching us.

Throughout the years Satan has tried in so many ways to deceive mankind, including the believers.

A few verses that God has given us to understand that all the prophets (these are the ones who not only confirms a previous scripture, but are revealed a new scripture as well), dealt with enemies. With God ?s permission this has been happening since the beginning of times. This has been God?s plan to expose the true qualities of every person, including the ones who claim to be believers.

2:75 Do you expect them to believe as you do, when some of them used to hear the word of God, then distort it, with full understanding thereof, and deliberately?

2:79 Therefore, woe to those who distort the scripture with their own hands, then say, "This is what God has revealed," seeking a cheap material gain. Woe to them for such distortion, and woe to them for their illicit gains.

3:78 Among them are those who twist their tongues to imitate the scripture, that you may think it is from the scripture, when it is not from the scripture, and they claim that it is from God, when it is not from God. Thus, they utter lies and attribute them to God, knowingly.

6:112 We have permitted the enemies of every prophet - human and jinn devils - to inspire in each other fancy words, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.

6:113 This is to let the minds of those who do not believe in the Hereafter listen to such fabrications, and accept them, and thus expose their real convictions.

6:114 Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.

6:115 The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.

God tells us in the Quran that we should honor the previous scriptures as well.

5:44 We have sent down the Torah, containing guidance and light. Ruling in accordance with it were the Jewish prophets, as well as the rabbis and the priests, as dictated to them in God's scripture, and as witnessed by them. Therefore, do not reverence human beings; you shall reverence Me instead. And do not trade away My revelations for a cheap price. Those who do not rule in accordance with God's revelations are the disbelievers.

5:46 Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.

5:47 The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with God's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with God's revelations are the wicked.

5:48 Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with God's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had God willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To God is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.

3:3 He sent down to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming all previous scriptures, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel
God explains to us that every time a new scripture got revealed, the majority of people who claimed to be believers plunged deeper into transgression and disbelief.

2:213 The people used to be one community when God sent the prophets as bearers of good news, as well as warners. He sent down with them the scripture, bearing the truth, to judge among the people in their disputes. Ironically, those who received the scripture were the ones who rejected any new scripture, despite clear proofs given to them. This is due to jealousy on their part. God guides those who believe to the truth that is disputed by all others, in accordance with His will. God guides whoever wills in a straight path.

5:64 The Jews even said, "God's hand is tied down!" It is their hands that are tied down. They are condemned for uttering such a blasphemy. Instead, His hands are wide open, spending as He wills. For certain, your Lord's revelations to you will cause many of them to plunge deeper into transgression and disbelief. Consequently, we have committed them to animosity and hatred among themselves until the Day of Resurrection. Whenever they ignite the flames of war, God puts them out. They roam the earth wickedly, and God dislikes the evildoers.

5:66 If only they would uphold the Torah and the Gospel, and what is sent down to them herein from their Lord, they would be showered with blessings from above them and from beneath their feet. Some of them are righteous, but many of them are evildoers.

5:68 Say, "O people of the scripture, you have no basis until you uphold the Torah, and the Gospel, and what is sent down to you herein from your Lord." For sure, these revelations from your Lord will cause many of them to plunge deeper into transgression and disbelief. Therefore, do not feel sorry for the disbelieving people.

2:89 When this scripture came to them from God, and even though it agrees with, and confirms what they have, and even though they used to prophesy its advent when they talked with the disbelievers, when their own prophecy came to pass, they disbelieved therein. God's condemnation thus afflicts the disbelievers.

Believers are deviated from the path of God, by taking idols as their gods, beside God.

9:30 The Jews said, "Ezra is the son of God," while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of God!" These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. God condemns them. They have surely deviated.

9:31 They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords, instead of God. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners.

This is exactly what is going on worldwide by i.a. the Catholic church, accepting the fake 13th apostle Paul and the Muslim scholars who are preaching Hadith instead of the true message of Submission.

The mission of the Messenger of Covenant (Rashad Khalifa)

3:81 God took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."

33:7 Recall that we took from the prophets their covenant, including you (O Muhammad), Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary. We took from them a solemn pledge.

From all the above verses it is obvious that ALL scriptures from God contain the truth, we just need to seek for the truth by careful studies with God?s help.  As God states in 5:48 ? He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To God is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.

By competing in righteousness, by seeking for the truth in ALL of God?s scriptures we become one congregation, the TRUE submitters. These are the ones who don?t accept the scriptures partially and they are able to recognize the truth, in spite of the hard work of Satan.

21:92 Your congregation is but one congregation, and I alone am your Lord; you shall worship Me alone.

23:52 Such is your congregation - one congregation - and I am your Lord; you shall reverence Me.

Not all the prophets and messengers are mentioned in the Quran by name, but it doesn?t mean they didn?t or don?t exist. We can study and confirm the truthfulness of the scriptures by studying the contents; the message.

4:163 We have inspired you, as we inspired Noah and the prophets after him. And we inspired Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, the Patriarchs, Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon. And we gave David the Psalms.

4:164 Messengers we have told you about, and messengers we never told you about. And God spoke to Moses directly.

Enoch

The Book of Enoch (Idris) was revealed before the Gospel of Jesus. At the lifetime of Jesus, the book of Enoch was included in the Old Testament and thus became a part of the New Testament.

The fact that Enoch is mentioned in the Quran is a clear sign that the book of Enoch should be studied, as we know that by the 4th century, the Book of Enoch was mostly excluded from Christian canons, This and many other books became discredited after the Council of Laodicea. And being under ban of the authorities, afterwards it gradually passed out of circulation. THE COUNCIL OF LAODICEA IN PHRYGIA PACATIANA 364 A.D. It changed history two significant ways. At this council they determined what would and would not be considered canon. They decided what would and would not be included in the Bible or read at church.)

Book of Revelations used as reference by Rashad Khalifa

At 5:55 he does use the book of Revelation to make an explanation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIuFyPnQiCw  That is enough to understand that the book does contain the message, but it needs to be sought for.
John

There is only one John, and that is the son of Zacharia. John was also a prophet and messenger.

3:38 That is when Zachariah implored his Lord: "My Lord, grant me such a good child; You are the Hearer of the prayers."

3:39 The angels called him when he was praying in the sanctuary: "GOD gives you good news of John; a believer in the word of GOD, honorable, moral, and a righteous prophet."

19:7 "O Zachariah, we give you good news; a boy whose name shall be John (Yahya). We never created anyone like him before."

19:12 "O John, you shall uphold the scripture, strongly." We endowed him with wisdom, even in his youth.

Verse 19:7 is remarkable as even Rashad Khalifa translated it as ??we have not assigned before this name?.  It is a little sign that the name John (Yahya) was never used before.  http://www.quranse.org/QueryEngine/index.php?Cmd=V&FromCmd=AS&b=Qur&c=19&v=7&QtID0=khalifa&BtID2=sg21&BL=fr

Even in the book of Matthew we find that the apostles of Yahya, after his death, encountered with Jesus and his apostles.  Another sign that the book of John is from the prophet John.

The message is spread out in all Scriptures. May God help us to seek, recognize, accept and believe in God?s true message and may He protect us from falling into transgression and disbelief. In sha Allah.
My beliefs have changed since end of 2014. Most of the threads and comments I have posted on this forum are no longer applicable. If anyone is interested to interact, you may PM me. Praise be to God

KDC501

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2014, 10:29:29 AM »
2:79 Therefore, woe to those who distort the scripture with their own hands, then say, "This is what God has revealed," seeking a cheap material gain. Woe to them for such distortion, and woe to them for their illicit gains.


Verse 2:79 shows that some of the old scripture have indeed been tampered with. This can be easily shown by the number of CONTRADICTIONS that can be found in the Bible.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/101_bible_contradictions.htm

These contradiction show that the Bible has been tampered with and should not be taken too seriously since there is no way of knowing where and what episodes could be real and what are fabricated.

Yes in the Quran it does say that the scriptures of old were divine

5:44 We have sent down the Torah, containing guidance and light. Ruling in accordance with it were the Jewish prophets, as well as the rabbis and the priests, as dictated to them in God's scripture, and as witnessed by them. Therefore, do not reverence human beings; you shall reverence Me instead. And do not trade away My revelations for a cheap price. Those who do not rule in accordance with God's revelations are the disbelievers.

5:46 Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.

5:47 The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with God's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with God's revelations are the wicked.

5:48 Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with God's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had God willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To God is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.

3:3 He sent down to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming all previous scriptures, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel
God explains to us that every time a new scripture got revealed, the majority of people who claimed to be believers plunged deeper into transgression and disbelief.


BUT the problem lies in what is needs to be taken OUT of the scriptures and what needs to be rejected. It is naive to believe that God is saying everything in the old scriptures are to be used. This cannot be because of the number of contradictions that lie in the Bible and the number of false teachings.

Now the issue of the Book of Enoch.

I have read some passages from the Book of Enoch and I have found them to be very fantastic tales with angels mating with women and making gaints also things about Enoch's visions etc. This I will NOT believe.   Also the Book of Enoch was written many years after the Torah o_O How then can anyone take this book seriously???


Also the Quran did NOT make mention of the Book of Enoch

19:56 And recall in the Scripture Enoch; he was a man of truth, a prophet.

The verse never mentioned anything about THE Book of Enoch. It merely states that Enoch  is mentioned in the old scriptures this does not necessarily mean that scripture is THE Book of Enoch. It could also mean the Book of Genesis in which Enoch was also mentioned.

THERE IS NO MENTION IN THE QURAN OF "THE BOOK OF ENOCH" but simply a refrence to the fact that Enoch was in the old scriptures.

I, being a christian in the past know more about the Book of Revelations than perhaps most of the people here on this forum. The Book of Revelations was written by John one of the alleged  disciples of Jesus NOT JOHN THE BAPTIST (Son of Zacharia in the Quran) . This would be stupid to believe since it is commonly known in history that John the Baptist(Son of Zacharia in the Quran) died before Jesus was put to death. So how then can John the Baptist (Son of Zacharia in the Quran) create a book with mentioning Christ in it??

The Book of Revelation is simply a book made by christian fanatics to make sense of some of the prophecies that Jesus didn't fullfil.
Jesus may have been A messiah but he was not THE Messiah that the Jews wanted. The Jews were looking for a Messiah that would be a military leader, and have power on earth. Jesus did not fulfill any of these prophecies. So the Christians that idolize Jesus created a book to make sense of some of the prophecies from even the old scriptures.

Another thing that should be noted is that The Book of Revelations when it was written could have been used as a means of comfort. The christians during that time expected the world to end VERY SOON and Jesus to come back and fulfill his role as the Messiah of the old scriptures.
The book made reference to episodes that occured during the time when Jesus was LONG dead and Nero was the new Emperor of Rome. The number 666 (mentioned in The Book Of Revelations) according to most christian scholars is a code message for Nero Caesar : http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/beast.html
What should also be noted is that this book according to biblical scholars surfaced in public during the time when Nero Caesar was Emperor!!! John (Son of Zacharia Also known as John the BAPTIST) died BEFORE Jesus during the time when Emperor Tiberius was ruler of Rome!!  This LOOOONG before Nero sat on the throne!!!

The Book of Revelations cannot be a used as reading or taken seriously. Also the Quran said that Gospels have truth in them. The Book of Revelation is NOT A GOSPEL. And even if RK used this as a reference that does mean he was correct. RK was still LEARNING the Quran and his deen. Many of the things he said could have been wrong! Don't blindly follow things you have no knowledge of.

Peace,

Kevin

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2014, 03:51:27 PM »
The word Qarn means horn as well as generation. If we take the latter meaning, Zul Qarnain (peace be upon him) means the one who possesses two horns. To comprehend the identity of the Prophet Zul Qarnain (peace be upon him) we must understand the context of the verses of Surah al Kahf and the reason for their revelation. The Jewish rabbis specifically asked the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) about Zul-Qarnain and to explain his story as proof of his prophethood. Therefore, bearing this context in mind we see that Zul Qarnain is someone whom the Jewish rabbis learned in the scriptures are aware of.

Therefore, in conjunction with the Vision of Daniel as narrated in the old testament, I believe that Zul Qarnain was a great Persian king and conqueror who may be identified with Cyrus the Great. In the vision of Daniel (Daniel chapter 8 ), he saw a two-horned ram which was marching in three directions (west, north and south). The Quran also mentions three different expeditions of Zul Qarnain in three different directions.

Correction, Dzul-Qarnayn (The one with two horn) was never being stated as a 'prophet'.

And you're correct on the rest of your description. The background might goes like this:
- Muhammad claim that 'his words' was actually the word of an angel named Gabriel.
- The Jewish rabbis would like to see some confirmation that it was actually "Gabriel"
- He seek out where Gabriel are being mentioned on his scripture and it appears on the book Daniel.
- He test it out to see whether Muhammad can answer who is the "Ram with two horn" as mentioned in Daniel.

The book of Daniel contain a prophecy about the rising of (back then) future empire symbolized by the Two horn ram which shall be destroyed by one horn goat and then the horn of the goat shall be broken to 4 pieces. (Daniel 8)
Two horn ram (Dzul-Qarnayn) = Persian Empire / Cyrus
One horn goat = Macedonian Empire / Alexander
Broken to 4 pieces = Macedonian Empire broken to 4 smaller kingdom after the death of Alexander

During the time of Quran those prophecies has already been fulfilled. and the deed of Cyrus was highly regarded by the Jews up until today. In the book of Isaiah he was mentioned as a "Christ" (Hebrew: Messiach)
Cyrus Persian Kingdom was among the earliest kingdom in the recorded history who has no "official state religion" a.k.a "Secularism".

More on the person here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great

And here's on the "Wall Of Dzul-Qarnayn".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Wall_of_Gorgan

KDC501

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2014, 12:25:38 PM »
Correction, Dzul-Qarnayn (The one with two horn) was never being stated as a 'prophet'.

And you're correct on the rest of your description. The background might goes like this:
- Muhammad claim that 'his words' was actually the word of an angel named Gabriel.
- The Jewish rabbis would like to see some confirmation that it was actually "Gabriel"
- He seek out where Gabriel are being mentioned on his scripture and it appears on the book Daniel.
- He test it out to see whether Muhammad can answer who is the "Ram with two horn" as mentioned in Daniel.

The book of Daniel contain a prophecy about the rising of (back then) future empire symbolized by the Two horn ram which shall be destroyed by one horn goat and then the horn of the goat shall be broken to 4 pieces. (Daniel 8)
Two horn ram (Dzul-Qarnayn) = Persian Empire / Cyrus
One horn goat = Macedonian Empire / Alexander
Broken to 4 pieces = Macedonian Empire broken to 4 smaller kingdom after the death of Alexander

During the time of Quran those prophecies has already been fulfilled. and the deed of Cyrus was highly regarded by the Jews up until today. In the book of Isaiah he was mentioned as a "Christ" (Hebrew: Messiach)
Cyrus Persian Kingdom was among the earliest kingdom in the recorded history who has no "official state religion" a.k.a "Secularism".

More on the person here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great

And here's on the "Wall Of Dzul-Qarnayn".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Wall_of_Gorgan

Cyrus the great was a pagan. It is IMPOSSIBLE for him to be "The Two Horned One".
From the Quran we see that the Two horned One had a close relationship with God. Cyrus was a PAGAN. He neither Alexander the Great fit the persona of the 'Two Horned One'.

Again the  "Two Horned One" is Messiah Ben Joseph. The term "Two Horned One" is a AN OLD TERM that the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL know about.



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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2014, 12:56:05 PM »
Peace,

I would not be so sure that Cyrus the Great was a Pagan.

God bless you
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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2014, 01:55:23 PM »
Peace,

I would not be so sure that Cyrus the Great was a Pagan.

God bless you
Ok I stand corrected. MAYBE he was a pagan and MAYBE he wasn't a pagan. I don't have much knowledge in Zoroastrian religion so I don't know. One thing I do know is that he was indeed a great king and he allowed people to follow there own religion. He was the responsible for the FIRST DOCUMENTED human rights charter that :

" I ordered that no one is permitted to abuse anybody or to damage the cities. I ordered that no house should be damaged and no one?s property should be violated and ransacked. I ordered that everybody should keep to his/her belief system and be free to worship his/her own God. I ordered that all the people should be free in their thoughts, choosing the place of their residence and no one should violate the rights of others."

Now here is the problem. The term "Two horned One" comes from Deuteronomy Chapter 33 This is again for the 100th time a JEWISH TERM FOR MESSIAH BEN JOSEPH. This is one of the many prophecies in the Bible that prophesied about "The Two Horned One"

Messiah Ben Joseph is the messiah that comes from the tribe of Joseph. The term "Two Horned One" comes from  Deuteronomy Chapter 33 in the Bible in which Moses before his death told the "future of the tribes of Israel "

In this chapter Moses says:

"13 About Joseph he said:

?May the Lord bless his land
    with the precious dew from heaven above
    and with the deep waters that lie below;
14 with the best the sun brings forth
    and the finest the moon can yield;
15 with the choicest gifts of the ancient mountains
    and the fruitfulness of the everlasting hills;
16 with the best gifts of the earth and its fullness
    and the favor of him who dwelt in the burning bush.
Let all these rest on the head of Joseph,
    on the brow of the prince among[e] his brothers.
17 In majesty he is like a firstborn bull;
    his horns are the horns of a wild ox.
With them he will gore the nations,
    even those at the ends of the earth.
Such are the ten thousands of Ephraim;
    such are the thousands of Manasseh.?


The key phrase that coined the nickname "Two Horned One" is " In majesty he is like a firstborn bull; his horns are the horns of a wild ox. With them he will gore the nations, even those at the ends of the earth. "


Cyrus could not have fulfilled this prophecy. Why?? Because if this prophecy were to be fulfilled in the PAST (not that it has been fulfilled but if it WERE to take place in the past ) he must have been a Jew or descendant of the Children of Israel.
The person know as Zulqurnain in the Quran is Messiah Ben Joseph that the Jews know about. It is stated that he would be military WORLD leader , rebuild the temple, and be a great politician and even carry out wars "to the ends of the earth" What Jew TODAY would think that he was Messiah Ben Joseph( The Two Horned One) ???

When Muhammad was asked this question he was asked by the Jews. There are NO living Jews today...ZERO that would say Cyrus the Great was "Two Horned One" or Messiah Ben Joseph ( The Zulquarnain) .

Peace,

Kevin

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2014, 02:50:09 PM »
Peace KDC501,

I am not sure who Zul-Qarnain was so I do not say anything. But I do not like to call Cyrus and the early succession of kings for Pagans because they seem in some records to have been among pretty righteous people. Zoroastrianism has an image of Paganism today, but I have done certain research that seems to indicate otherwise.

Historical records may be distorted, but I am relatively certain that there were good kings among bad ones in that era (approximately 600BC-450BC) and that they had Communion with God.

I would admit that the narration in chapter 18 with Zul-Qarnain may suit the portrayal of Cyrus in The Book. But it is nothing I would swear by God about. Unless I know better I would not give any further speculations.

God bless you
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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2014, 03:09:37 PM »
Peace KDC501,

I am not sure who Zul-Qarnain was so I do not say anything. But I do not like to call Cyrus and the early succession of kings for Pagans because they seem in some records to have been among pretty righteous people. Zoroastrianism has an image of Paganism today, but I have done certain research that seems to indicate otherwise.

Historical records may be distorted, but I am relatively certain that there were good kings among bad ones in that era (approximately 600BC-450BC) and that they had Communion with God.

I would admit that the narration in chapter 18 with Zul-Qarnain may suit the portrayal of Cyrus in The Book. But it is nothing I would swear by God about. Unless I know better I would not give any further speculations.

God bless you

Here once more . . . you are at it again:

Quote
I am not sure who Zul-Qarnain was so I do not say anything. But I do not like to call Cyrus and the early succession of kings for Pagans because they seem in some records to have been among pretty righteous people. Zoroastrianism has an image of Paganism today, but I have done certain research that seems to indicate otherwise.

What research? Where?

- -

Quote
Historical records may be distorted, but I am relatively certain that there were good kings among bad ones in that era (approximately 600BC-450BC)

Law of averages!

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2014, 03:30:31 PM »
Peace mr nice,

At what? Many people would agree with that.

That some Persian kings seem to have been better than the average is quite well-known and they seem to have kept a decent respect to various religions and to places that they conquered. And they set free captured Jews at Babylon.

What was it that you argued against anyway? That Zoroastrians are not Pagans?
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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2014, 04:02:21 PM »
Peace mr nice,

At what? Many people would agree with that.

That some Persian kings seem to have been better than the average is quite well-known and they seem to have kept a decent respect to various religions and to places that they conquered. And they set free captured Jews at Babylon.

What was it that you argued against anyway? That Zoroastrians are not Pagans?

I am not arguing for and against anything. . . I have asked you about this "research" . . . which you have claimed . . .

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2014, 12:23:38 AM »
Peace The Chimp,

How do you research on history? Checking historical records, geographical and archeological sources and thinking and trying to assemble every source together.

But it is always difficult knowing the exact Truth and sometimes official history is a blatant lie such as I consider much of hadith of Muhammad if you pardon me saying. That I say by considering it is intertwined with tales that Muhammad let Believers drink camel urine or that he would use a certain number of stones while answering the call of nature.

Even if some hadith might be true would you consider it a reliable source or divine revelation? It is almost worse reliable than the Bible.

I consider God's Message to be safely sought from The Book and particularly not hadith books of Muhammad.

Saying I invent new meanings of words is not true with for example Communion as this is what the word might mean (salah) and then I do not care what "religious leaders" say but I go on by using logic while checking the word's root meaning.

Anyway, I know you will never justly evaluate what I said now either and go on and saying how unintelligent I am in the usual friendly manner.
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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2014, 05:29:27 AM »
Cyrus the great was a pagan. It is IMPOSSIBLE for him to be "The Two Horned One".
From the Quran we see that the Two horned One had a close relationship with God. Cyrus was a PAGAN. He neither Alexander the Great fit the persona of the 'Two Horned One'.

Again the  "Two Horned One" is Messiah Ben Joseph. The term "Two Horned One" is a AN OLD TERM that the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL know about.

1. What is PAGAN?, explain please...
2. And why Cyrus is a Pagan?

Cyrus was the first person to be titled "Messiach" by the Jews.
He's definitely a GOYIM, (Goyim = Non-Jew)
So GOYIM = PAGAN ?


"This is what the LORD says to his MOSSIACH, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of
to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut."

(Isaiah 45)

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2014, 12:24:38 PM »
Salam everyone,

for anyone who is intrested to read more about this subject please read the following note on facebook in sha Allah.


https://www.facebook.com/notes/nazzie-azarbad/who-is-son-of-mandhul-qarnain-/10152580587273266
My beliefs have changed since end of 2014. Most of the threads and comments I have posted on this forum are no longer applicable. If anyone is interested to interact, you may PM me. Praise be to God

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Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2014, 07:39:00 AM »
Salam all,

Iwant to bring this old thread into the view,I don't know who dhul qarnain is but i don't think it is cyrus because all Storys in the scripture are about semitic People for a semitic audience,no Story about Hercules or Shaka Zulu.

So i tend to belive that dhul carnain is another title for a Person already mention in the Scripture.And one of the traveler coming into consideration is Salomo,which the scrpture is telling us to have control over the "wind" with which he travels a one Month Journay in one day.

And it is not by accident that places far away from the Levante are called after him.There is a Mountain called "djebel Sulaiman" near the Himalaya ,why would People call places after someone?Only if someone did a great Thing which People drive them to express their admiration for him. "18:94 They said: "O Two Horned One, Gog and Magog are destroyers of the land, so shall we make a tribute for you that you will make between us and them a barrier?" "

So one hint how to search who dhul qarnain is by looking for honored People by foreign countries like alexander the great and others