No Record of the city of Mecca before 4th Century AD.

[KDC501]

Three days ago I found an article on-line written by a researcher named Dr. Rafat Amari.

http://religionresearchinstitute.org/mecca/archeology.htm

He provides historical evidence that shows that the city of Mecca could not have existed before 400 AD due to the absence of the city in archaeological records , and  surveys found in the other ancient cities and kingdoms of Arabia


Please note that the writer is a Christian. So yes he does use a few writings from the bible. However, please try not to let the fact that he is a Christian deter you from seeing the facts. For those of you who are aware of the Quran?s miracles know full well that the book cannot be authored by men but from God due to the numerous amount of signs the book contains

Peace,

Kevin D.Cooper

[raginggaijin]

"Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord, and follow no friends other than He; little do you remember." Surah 7:3

Do you realize you are upholding the teachings of enemies of Allah?

Why aren't you studying the Quran instead of searching the Internet?

Peace.

[KDC501]

"Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord, and follow no friends other than He; little do you remember." Surah 7:3

Do you realize you are upholding the teachings of enemies of Allah?

Why aren't you studying the Quran instead of searching the Internet?

Peace.

Teachings of the enemies of Allah   What part of the historical or archaeological evidence are satanic? Please enlighten me.
Facts are facts regardless where they come from. Whether they be Christian, Hindu , Buddhist or Muslim it is not right to say ?This is wrong? just because the person is of a different religion from us.


Question: If a Hindu told you that its dangerous to stand under a tall tree in a lightening storm because you can get electrocuted would you not believe him even if he brought proof that it is dangerous to do so?

And the Quran says

Sura 17:36 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.


God wants us to use our brains and not blindly follow what we do not know. It is foolish to blindly believe others without properly doing all the necessary research ourselves. God wants us to think. God loves the thinkers.

Also have you forgotten that you yourself have used countless of  links from the Internet for your own ?proofs?. What sort of hypocrisy is this to question me about why am I searching the internet?  

[raginggaijin]

Teachings of the enemies of Allah   What part of the historical or archaeological evidence are satanic? Please enlighten me.
Facts are facts regardless where they come from. Whether they be Christian, Hindu , Buddhist or Muslim it is not right to say ?This is wrong? just because the person is of a different religion from us.

It is your obligation to confirm (saddaqat) the Truth, regardless of where it comes from. You accept teachings that are contrary to the teachings of the Quran, from sources that admit they are enemies of Allah.

"O believers, take not My enemy and your enemy for friends, offering them love, though they have disbelieved in the truth that has come to you, expelling the Messenger and you because you believe in God your Lord. If you go forth to struggle in My way and seek My good pleasure, secretly loving them, yet I know very well what you conceal and what you publish; and whosoever of you does that, has gone astray from the right way." Surah 60:1

?Those who dispute concerning the signs of God, without any authority come to them, very hateful is that in the sight of God and the believers; 'so God sets a seal on every heart proud', arrogant.? Surah 40:35

?O believers, take not for your intimates outside yourselves such men spare nothing to ruin you; they yearn for you to suffer. Hatred has already shown itself of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is yet greater. Now We have made clear to you the signs, if you understand.? Surah 3:118

?It shall be proclaimed to the unbelievers, 'Surely God's hatred is greater than your hatred one of another, when you were called unto belief, and disbelieved.'? Surah 40:10

?Those who take unbelievers for their friends instead of believers -- do they seek glory in them? But glory altogether belongs to God.? 4:139

?O believers, take not the unbelievers as friends instead of the believers; or do you desire to give God over you a clear authority?? Surah 4:144

?O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them. God guides not the people of the evildoers.? Surah 5:51

?O believers, take not as your friends those of them, who were given the Book before you, and the unbelievers, who take your religion in mockery and as a sport -- and fear God, if you are believers ?? Surah 5:57

?Thou seest many of them making unbelievers their friends. Evil is that they have forwarded to their account, that God is angered against them, and in the chastisement they shall dwell forever. Yet had they believed in God and the Prophet and what has been sent down to him, they would not have taken them as friends; but many of them are ungodly.? Surah 5:80-81

Question: If a Hindu told you that its dangerous to stand under a tall tree in a lightening storm because you can get electrocuted would you not believe him even if he brought proof that it is dangerous to do so?

What does standing under a tree in a lightning storm have to do with religious guidance? You cannot make a credible argument against your taking guardians and counsel from those who disavow belief in what Allah sent down, so you speak of lightning storms and trees?
You choose to uphold teachings of Patrica Crone and idolators - Christians and Jews - when Allah makes it clear we are not to do so.

And the Quran says

Sura 17:36 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.

So why are you upholding teachings of satans - people who strive to deceive and mislead - when the Truth is in the Quran which you profess to uphold?
Why are you not studying the Quran instead of searching the Internet?
When are you going to start reading the Quran?
Every single claim you brought forth concerning Jerusalem being the qiblah was destroyed by the Truth revealed in the Quran, but this only increased you in disbelief.

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602528.msg280244#msg280244
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602528.msg280249#msg280249
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602528.msg280305#msg280305
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602528.msg280319#msg280319
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602528.msg280326#msg280326
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602528.msg280432#msg280432
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602528.msg280469#msg280469
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602528.msg280473#msg280473
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602528.msg280486#msg280486

"O believers, whosoever of you turns from his religion, God will assuredly bring a people He loves, and who love Him, humble towards the believers, disdainful towards the unbelievers, men who struggle in the path of God, not fearing the reproach of any reproacher. That is God's bounty; He gives it unto whom He will; and God is All-embracing, All-knowing.
Your friend is only God, and His Messenger, and the believers who perform the prayer and pay the alms, and bow them down.
Whoso makes God his friend, and His Messenger, and the believers -- the party of God, they are the victors." Surah 5:54-56

Allah does not change a people?s condition until they change their condition: Surah 13:11, 8:53

Do you submit to Allah?

Peace.


God wants us to use our brains and not blindly follow what we do not know. It is foolish to blindly believe others without properly doing all the necessary research ourselves. God wants us to think. God loves the thinkers.

Also have you forgotten that you yourself have used countless of  links from the Internet for your own ?proofs?. What sort of hypocrisy is this to question me about why am I searching the internet?  

[/quote]

[KDC501]

Mr raging,

                    I will not waste time with an arrogant fool who falsely accuses people of slander and who doesn't have the mental capacity for studying or debating. Also thank you for reposting my posts. It gives others the opportunity to see why I believe Jerusalem is the Qibla and the proper place for pilgrimage . Keep it up

[Wakas]

Bro Ayman might know a little about this subject.

[raginggaijin]

Mr raging,

                    I will not waste time with an arrogant fool who falsely accuses people of slander and who doesn't have the mental capacity for studying or debating. Also thank you for reposting my posts. It gives others the opportunity to see why I believe Jerusalem is the Qibla and the proper place for pilgrimage . Keep it up

Let those who come behind read and study. It is up to Allah to guide, and He guides whom He wills.
Again, I'm not here to guide. My only obligation is to remind and warn. But you cannot say you were not warned.

"O believers, let not any people scoff at another people who may be better than they; neither let women scoff at women who may be better than themselves. And find not fault with one another, neither revile one another by nicknames. An evil name is ungodliness after belief. And whoso repents not, those -- they are the evildoers." Surah 49:11

God wants us to use our brains and not blindly follow what we do not know. It is foolish to blindly believe others without properly doing all the necessary research ourselves. God wants us to think. God loves the thinkers.

Who is using sources from enemies of Al-Islam, instead of using the Quran to verify the Truth?
You cannot even point out Masjid Al-Haram or Masjid Al-Aqsa, so why do you follow what you do not know?

Also have you forgotten that you yourself have used countless of  links from the Internet for your own ?proofs?. What sort of hypocrisy is this to question me about why am I searching the internet? 

Again, who is using sources from enemies of Al-Islam, instead of using the Quran to verify the Truth? I do not take the enemies of Al-Islam as friends or guardians.
Everything I have brought is verified by the Quran, as the Quran is the only source of knowledge to uphold. As you will not take the Quran alone as a source of guidance, I have brought Internet links to show that the Quran does in fact verify the Truth, and it is still found in the world today - even though the satans seek to hide it.

You cannot bring anything to refute the Truth found in Quran.

In the End, we will all know who is rightly guided, and who was led astray.

Peace.

[KDC501]

Bro Ayman might know a little about this subject.

Thank you Wakas for the tip.  Yesterday i read an article written by him http://free-minds.org/ayman . As I had believed for a very long time the same nonsense that happened to Christianity  happened to Islam. Islamic practices have been infiltrated and distorted in every sector .  Which is why it is important to critically investigate every practice of Islam and not to take things to lightly.


Peace,

Kevin D. Cooper

[exodus]

It is not surprise for me that no record of the city of Mecca before 4th Century AD. The city mentioned in Quran is "Bacca". Fact is fact, no matter who reveal it.

[39:18] Those who listen to the Word, and follow the best. Those are the ones whom Allah has guided, and those are the ones endued with understanding.

Peace.

[Wakas]

You may find this recent post helpful:
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602595.msg281156#msg281156

[OPF]

All things testify to the supreme truth of ALLAH.

If an atheist goes out to try to disprove ALLAH they will collect a set of evident truths against the misconceptions of ALLAH. Those very same evident truths will prove ALLAH's word to be correct (e.g. evolution).

Total catch 22, for truth itself can never be again rendered false.

[huruf]

I have found this text by Patricia Crone:

http://www.opendemocracy.net/faith-europe_islam/mohammed_3866.jsp
The title is

What do we actually know about Mohamed?

I was not expecting much because of other thing I found in the internet about the writer, which probbly were not objective with her or hislam or the Prophet.

However this test to me seems not too bad. In fact I find it hopeful. It points to something I have been suspecting all the time: that there is A LOOOOOOT to be done in archeology, because up till now, Arabia in the part is practically virgin, but what is being uncovered without much exploration turns out to be very promising that Arabia in that part was not the void it is represented to be.

Of course, those who do not believe that the Qur'an is a revelation as much as anything can be a revelation, will always pretend that the Qur'an consists of borrowings from Christian and Jewish tradition, as if those were better guaranty than the Qur'an, but I do not see from facts coming to life through real science any threat to the "reputation" of the Qur'an. Obviously the Qur'an itself gurantees itself for whoever finds it truthful.

Salaam

[huruf]

The fact that the writer of the article mntioned in the first message of the thread is a Christian means nothing bad or good, but the institution he writes for, I have checked, is a professional Muslim basher under the guise of science and enlightement of Muslims.

Here what it says under their heading "Bible"



The Qur?an or the Bible

The Qur?an repeats the mythology in vogue at the time of Mohammed.  His thoughts reflect ancient teachings about the earth, the sun and the creation.  These teachings can be traced in the well-known mythology of the people of the middle and far East.

So, I sam sorry for Rifaat Amari, but he is a pawn or an emplyee of that institution and not a desinterested person, whose judgement, as it is, would deserve credibility, without very good and verifiable proof of what is attempted to proove with his article.


Salaam

 

[DaresBears]

Absence of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence.