Author Topic: Theory of Evolution anyone ?  (Read 32565 times)

uq

  • Global Moderator
  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Posts: 407
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Theory of Evolution anyone ?
« Reply #170 on: February 13, 2016, 04:11:57 AM »
"[...] makes sense only when we are talking about humans in their early stages of development"
I couldn't disagree more. No offence intended.

No offence taken.

In light of your rephrasing of what you had posted earlier, I find we are now more in agreement.

Perhaps I should also rephrase my statement from...

[...] today's humans are less-governed by primal instincts.

to...

"[...] today's humans are less expressive of primal instincts."

I do believe that there is a greater modulation of primal urges taking place in today's humans than there would have been in our earlier stages of development. That is to say, I believe that we still feel the same impulses as our earliest ancestors felt (whether relating to procreation, survival, fear, etc.), however, these impulses, in my view, are now more subject to intentional modulation on account of social conditioning.
uq

tutti_frutti

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 103
  • Karma +1/-0
Re: Theory of Evolution anyone ?
« Reply #171 on: May 26, 2020, 11:55:55 AM »
salam

in my opinion, there is no theory of evolution and the Quran proves it (i already posted about it in another thread but ill post again, no issue in that i hope aye? lol)

recall this verse:

Say, "Shall I inform you of worse than that as penalty from The God? those whom The God has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs and slaves of taghut. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way." (ch 5, verse 60)

Note here The God tells us He made pigs and apes/monkeys from humans. We can clearly see it today as we know apes/monkeys are genetically similar to humans, and so are pigs/swine (please google it you will see that humans use pig parts as organ transplants and pigs have same thoracic and abdominal organs as humans, skin type, eye lashes and protruding nose, human molars, swine also depress, diseases infecting them infect humans too etc etc hence why pork is forbidden)

The God does not use any adjective to qualify what kind of apes He made from humans and also says He “made from them (humans He was angry with)” meaning the pigs and apes still exist

please note the following verses:

And you had already known about those who transgressed among you concerning the sabbath, and We said to them "Be despicable apes." And We made it a deterrent punishment for those who were present and those who succeeded [them] and a lesson for those who fear The God (ch 2, verses 65 and 66) 

The God uses the adjective despicable and also says “Be” and not “made from them”  and so the humans were turned to despicable apes and died off. these are what the scientists call the common human ape ancestor. and coincidentally all of the fossils were found in africa (and those to whom sabbath was decreed because they disputed in it were in africa - egypt :) )

everytime archeologists find fossils of an individual(s) scientists claim they found new species of ancestors. well if two people, example one measuring 1.74 cm and one 1.84 cm with different weights and bodies, were turned to despicable apes, wont they look and be different?

The God also says they are a deterrent punishment for succeeding generations as well. well we found the fossils and instead of thinking of them as punishment and fearing The God, people are fascinated by them use those fossils as a fake and erroneous explanation to human evolution. the devil indeed fooled many.

please take a look at the ape human common ancestors like lucy and think, arent they abject and weird apes? halfway between apes and humans

there is no evolution. recall aslo when The God tells us the example of jesus is like adam. jesus was created as jesus just as adam was created as asam by The God’s permission and will. theybwere not created as apes who became humans.

please question everything you are told in science books even regarding the earth and universe being billions of years. the only Book that contains the truth and is unquestionable is the Quran.

and frankly, isnt evolution ridiculous? if a fish went out of the sea, it would die, it wont develop lungs and all. it would die in seconds. evolution is even more far fetched than a fairy tale

(early humans like neanderthals are noah’s people. recall the verse where hud tells his people that The God made them successors after noah’s people and increased them in CREATION. The God said noah’s people are a sign, well we found their fossils/skeletons have we not? :) )

there is no theory of evolution that stands

by the way pleaze also google the fact that soft tissue was found in dinosaur bones

any comments are welcome please

peace

Layth

  • Administrator
  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 2831
  • Karma +15/-4
  • Gender: Male
Re: Theory of Evolution anyone ?
« Reply #172 on: May 27, 2020, 02:12:57 AM »
Salam,

Not sure I see the logic here.

According to fossilized remains, apes and pigs have been around for millions of years. So, to suddenly make them appear only a few thousand years ago in relation to the story of God degrading some humans to pigs & apes during the Sabaath has no basis.

I can see that God would make people He is angry with into an existing animal (especially ones that are deemed low), but that He would create a new species of animal totally unknown and make humans into that is pretty thin.

Also, while meat of pig is specifically forbidden, you have no such specific prohibition on apes.
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

Jafar

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4035
  • Karma +111/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: Theory of Evolution anyone ?
« Reply #173 on: May 27, 2020, 07:26:11 AM »
It's clearly can be seen by merely physical observation that evolution also known as constant change throughout time happened in all aspect of the universe. Galaxy, Stars, Planets, All things inside the planet (rock formation, gases, fluid matter, carbon based lifeforms, human, human's language, human's thought processes, human's culture etc). Only the ignorant would not be able to see such clear observable signs.

Even on this thread alone, the thread starter "Student of Allah" has evolved into a different kind of personality, with different outlook on life and different set of opinion. Compared to the time when she started this thread.

tutti_frutti

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 103
  • Karma +1/-0
Re: Theory of Evolution anyone ?
« Reply #174 on: May 27, 2020, 08:21:56 AM »
salam

i did not say The God made apes and pigs from transgressors of sabbath.
i said He made apes and pigs from those He was angry with

those who transgressed against sabbath were told to “Be despicable apes” (what scientists believe to be ape human ancestor)

and layth, what does animal considered “low” mean? what is criteria for low?

i had asked myself about why apes not forbidden...maybe cause The God knows we will not eat them or maybe apes share in dna with bumans but oigs shre in actually body? only The God knows why

i believe in the Quran over “science”, and the Quran says The God made apes and pigs from those He was angry with (no mention of transgressors of sabbath here, please read the verses)

peace

tutti_frutti

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 103
  • Karma +1/-0
Re: Theory of Evolution anyone ?
« Reply #175 on: May 27, 2020, 02:16:26 PM »
salam

please google similarities between pigs and humans as well as similarities between pigs and apes

coincidence? evolution? i do not think so

also that pig organs are compatible with human organs a coincidence? i dont think so either

The God, in His infinite mercy, gave us a proof when He told us He made pigs and apes from humans. glory and thanks to The God

here are some website:

https://www.science.org.au/curious/people-medicine/similarities-between-humans-and-pigs

https://farmsnotfactories.org/articles/5-ways-pigs-humans-alike/

https://pandasthumb.org/archives/2013/12/yes-you-share-a.html

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/stories/amp/pigs-and-humans-more-closely-related-thought-according-genetic-analysis

pig flesh is forbidden as they are made from humans

Say: "Shall I inform you of worse than this as a punishment from God Those whom God cursed and became angry at them, and He made from them apes and pigs and servants of evil. Those have a worst place and are more astray from the right path." (ch 5, verse 60) btw its a translation from monotheist group :)

in arabic: ja3ala minhom(o?) and not ja3alahom
which i understand to be “made from them” and not “made them into” or “turned them into”

that is my understanding

peace

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1763
  • Karma +1/-0
Re: Theory of Evolution anyone ?
« Reply #176 on: May 28, 2020, 01:12:56 AM »
pig flesh is forbidden as they are made from humans

Say: "Shall I inform you of worse than this as a punishment from God Those whom God cursed and became angry at them, and He made from them apes and pigs and servants of evil. Those have a worst place and are more astray from the right path." (ch 5, verse 60) btw its a translation from monotheist group :)

in arabic: ja3ala minhom(o?) and not ja3alahom
which i understand to be “made from them” and not “made them into” or “turned them into”

that is my understanding

peace

peace, read in context about behavior… 5:60 humans serve false idols/deities

humans approached speaking
5:61 واذا wa-idha/and when of (time adverb present/future) جاوكم they come to you قالوا said they of

واذ wa-idh/and when i.e. written without the trailing alif denotes time adverb refers to past episode

acting like aggressive monkeys
5:62 وترى and thou see كثىرا much منهم minhum/of them ىسرعون hastening فى in الاثم the detriment والعدون and the transgression

behaving as swine devouring foul etc.
5:62 واكلهم and consumption theirs السحت the illicit

Berlin, State Library: ms.or.fol. 4313
606-652, CE (95.4%) [¹⁴C dating by Coranica] - parchment
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/5/vers/60/handschrift/15



6:38 وما and not من of دابه creature فى in الارض the land ولا and not طىر flyer ىطىر flyed بجنحىه with wings two its الا except امم communities  امثلكم similitude's you ما not فرطنا neglect we of فى in الكتب the book من of شى thing ثم furthermore الى to ربهم lord theirs ىحشرون gathered being

tutti_frutti

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 103
  • Karma +1/-0
Re: Theory of Evolution anyone ?
« Reply #177 on: May 28, 2020, 07:51:26 AM »
salam

you are assuming that (ch5, v61) is speaking about those turned to apes and swine. for me its clear that verse and what follows is speaking about disbelievers.

also, (ch5, v6) also say “and when they come to you” not “and when these come to you” so for me “they” means the unbelievers in general

in (ch5, v60) The God says He made apes and swine from those He was angry with. why start intepreting? it is as The God tells us.

i have a question, why do people assume swine (and apes) are “low” animals? what is your criteria for them being “low”?? what does it even mean “low”? is a fly “low” and an eagle “high”? is a donkey “low” and a hippo “high”?
and why would pork be forbidden if not that they were made from humans as mentioned clearly?

and by the way, coincidence apes and swine are extremely like humans (physically and psychologically)??

every word in the Quran is measured. it is from The God.
whilst in ch5, v60 we are told swine and apes are made from humans, in ch2, v65 we are told The God told sabbath transgressors “be despicable apes”. not that He made from them despicable apes, but (transformed) “be despicable apes”. so they were turnd to despicable apes (what scientists think is the common human ape ancestor) and died off.

peace

tutti_frutti

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 103
  • Karma +1/-0
Re: Theory of Evolution anyone ?
« Reply #178 on: May 28, 2020, 10:51:29 AM »
salam noon waalqalami

i also want to please add something

when you say acting like aggressive monkeys... what does that mean??? do aggressive monkeys hasten in sin and transgression??? why even assume aggressive monkeys??

and when you quote the part saying devouring what is illicit...you automatically assume food? how about what is illicit meaning also money of orphans, or money from interest, or from theft etc etc do swine do that?

and if you mean food... if they act like swine and devour illicit food.. swine is forbidden yeah? so by acting like swine and devouring illicit food... we should understand swine eating itself?

in my opinion, we should take the Quran at face value and whatever The God says is the Truth. no need to start interpeting in my opinion.

peace :)

Noon waalqalami

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1763
  • Karma +1/-0
Re: Theory of Evolution anyone ?
« Reply #179 on: May 28, 2020, 12:52:08 PM »
you are assuming that (ch5, v61) is speaking about those turned to apes and swine. for me its clear that verse and what follows is speaking about disbelievers.

peace, no – you assume not reading "in context" ...

it is not talking about some past event e.g.: واذ wa-idh
again, whole episode is constantly present: واذا wa-idha

5:60 قل say هل shall انبىكم I enlighten you ...
5:61 واذا wa-idha/and when of (present/future) جاوكم they come to you قالوا said they of ...
5:62 وترى and thou see كثىرا much of منهم minhum/of them ىسرعون hastening فى in الاثم the detriment ...
5:63 لولا why not ىنههم prohibit them الربنىون the rabbis being والاحبر and the scholars عن about قولهم speech theirs الاثم the detriment واكلهم and consumption theirs السحت the illicit لبىس surely wretched ما what كانوا be they of ىصنعون working


Quote
i have a question, why do people assume swine (and apes) are “low” animals?

who are you assuming that they are assuming?

Quote
and why would pork be forbidden if not that they were made from humans as mentioned clearly?

same as forbidden:
المىته the lifeless والدم and the blood ...
وما and what ذبح slaughter على on النصب the alters (includes finest beef, etc.)...


Quote
and by the way, coincidence apes and swine are extremely like humans (physically and psychologically)??

same 4-bit chemical program (all life) apes share 99% of DNA, cats 90%, pigs and dogs 84%, cows 80% etc.

Quote
... but (transformed) “be despicable apes”. so they were turnd to despicable apes...

no, they were chastised (faqul'nā) not turned into apes nor made to be steadfast in the justice, etc.

2:65 … فقلنا faqul'nā/so said we of لهم to them كونوا kūnū/be ye of قرده monkeys خاسىىن despicable!
4:135 ىاىها O you الذىن the ones امنوا believes ye of كونوا kūnū/be ye of قومىن steadfast بالقسط in the justice


why even assume aggressive monkeys??

read "in context" 5:60-63 what is says...
ىسرعون hastening فى in الاثم the detriment والعدون wal-udwani/and the transgression

Quote
and when you quote the part saying devouring what is illicit...you automatically assume food?

it is you making assumptions every other sentence.
read carefully my posts, quote me, do not assume.

4:161 واخذهم and seized they الربا the usury وقد and assuredly نهوا prohibit they of عنه on it
 واكلهم and consumption theirs امول wealth الناس the people بالبطل in the falsehood ...

5:62/63 ... واكلهم and consumption theirs السحت the illicit لبىس surely wretched ما what كانوا be they of ىعملون working