why do people complicate things?

[justamuslim]

when i separated from my ex, we both mutually agreed to it by declaring verbally that we are separated.   we still lived in the same apartment but didn't have physical contact.  this was the period of working on our relationship.  well, it didn't work.  and so we decided on divorce. verbally and via e-mail we declared ourselves no longer husband and wife.  my ex moved out.  we took care of property and such keeping things civil.  then i filed for legal divorce. 

now, why can't the same be true of marriage?  i have read various opinions and views on marriage where everything is so heavy on tradition, hadiths and such.  why do people make things so complicated?  two people meet and now with cell phones, internet, skype, and such makes it a whole lot easy to get to know each other to see about compatibility, shared views and such without kissing, hugging, and such (keeping it all islamic).  once a couple make that decision to marry, why can't they just declare their intentions/oath and then proceed with the legal ceremony/documentation?    simple as that.   

[mirjamnur]

 
The Nikaah ( contract for married )has been described in very specific Arabic terms by the Quran as a 'Meethaqan Galezaan'.

004:021
"How can you take it (back) after one of you has gone in to the other, and they have taken a solemn covenant (Arabic: Meethaqan Galezaan)?"
 
The 'Meethaqan Galezaan (Solemn Covenant) is arguably one of the most powerful, lasting covenants that can be entered into and has been used in the Quran to describe:

(1) The solemn covenant God took with the Children of Israel with regards the Sabbath (4:154)
(2) The solemn covenant God took with all His prophets (33:7)

The importance and gravity of the nature of such a covenant can be well attested by the two examples above. The only other time such a description is used is with regards 'Nikaah' (4:21)

Given that simple contracts require at least two witnesses (2:282), there can be no argument for the need of independent witnesses to authenticate a covenant of marriage. Therefore, a Nikaah must be enacted in front of other witnesses.

There is further wisdom that can be extracted from such a covenant.

(1) Both parties making the contract should be of sound mind and maturity, have been assessed for marriage suitability and can fulfil the obligations being agreed to within the contract.

(2) Both parties must fully agree to the covenant undertaken therefore they must understand and comprehend the terms with all its related commitments and responsibilities.

(3) Marriage vows are entered into with a view to last a couple's lifetime (source www.quransmessage.com

when i separated from my ex, we both mutually agreed to it by declaring verbally that we are separated.   we still lived in the same apartment but didn't have physical contact.  this was the period of working on our relationship.  well, it didn't work.  and so we decided on divorce. verbally and via e-mail we declared ourselves no longer husband and wife.  my ex moved out.  we took care of property and such keeping things civil.  then i filed for legal divorce. 

now, why can't the same be true of marriage?  i have read various opinions and views on marriage where everything is so heavy on tradition, hadiths and such.  why do people make things so complicated?  two people meet and now with cell phones, internet, skype, and such makes it a whole lot easy to get to know each other to see about compatibility, shared views and such without kissing, hugging, and such (keeping it all islamic).  once a couple make that decision to marry, why can't they just declare their intentions/oath and then proceed with the legal ceremony/documentation?    simple as that.   

dear justamuslim
when you study the nikaah from the Quran you see, that is simple !

[Emil]

two people meet and now with cell phones, internet, skype, and such makes it a whole lot easy to get to know each other to see about compatibility, shared views and such without kissing, hugging, and such (keeping it all islamic).

Whaaaat? Kissing and hugging is unislamic??? I beg to differ......Allah has made hugging and kissing, why are you saying it is not from Him?

I actually had this conversation with my wife, you know about the complexity of marriage and this and that paper. In our country a Nikkah is not valid until registred with the IRS which is not done automatically and that adds to the confusion......There are many muslims here who do not know they are not married.......by law that is......Because they have not been informed......Anyways, my wife was worried that since we had intimate contact before the Nikkah was signed that Allah would punish us for this.

I tried to explain that Allah would not punish us, but the concept of Nikkah was haunting her so she was not convinced. The coin dropped however when I asked  what her heart and mind was telling her the first time she kissed me. Was I only a thrill of the moment or did she kiss me because she wanted to be with me, living with me, growing old with me? She answered the latter (lucky me). I asked her eventhough she only felt it and had not told a living soul about her feelings towards me, who else knew? she answered "Allah"............

That is the outmost, that is the thing that matters......A "real" marriage is not a piece of paper claiming authority. The real marriage is in your heart and only Allah can read that.......The real marriage is when you take an oath to your spouse, not when you say "I do" on a piece of paper...If I meet a girl, fall in love and my heart is telling me she is the one, do you think I need a piece of paper to prove to Allah I am sincere? Do you think the girl would see my oath towards her being stronger simply because I sign a paper? If she does she is misguided thinking a signature can govern my heart. The oath I take with Allah as my witness surpasses any paper,

So marriage is simple, your heart will tell you and it will tell Allah, and then you have taken an oath. The rest has nothing to do with Allah because he already knows. The rest is all what society wants you to do.....

[mirjamnur]

Salamu aleikum Emil

Whaaaat? Kissing and hugging is unislamic??? I beg to differ......Allah has made hugging and kissing, why are you saying it is not from Him?

I actually had this conversation with my wife, you know about the complexity of marriage and this and that paper. In our country a Nikkah is not valid until registred with the IRS which is not done automatically and that adds to the confusion......There are many muslims here who do not know they are not married.......by law that is......Because they have not been informed......Anyways, my wife was worried that since we had intimate contact before the Nikkah was signed that Allah would punish us for this.

I tried to explain that Allah would not punish us, but the concept of Nikkah was haunting her so she was not convinced. The coin dropped however when I asked  what her heart and mind was telling her the first time she kissed me. Was I only a thrill of the moment or did she kiss me because she wanted to be with me, living with me, growing old with me? She answered the latter (lucky me). I asked her eventhough she only felt it and had not told a living soul about her feelings towards me, who else knew? she answered "Allah"............

That is the outmost, that is the thing that matters......A "real" marriage is not a piece of paper claiming authority. The real marriage is in your heart and only Allah can read that.......The real marriage is when you take an oath to your spouse, not when you say "I do" on a piece of paper...If I meet a girl, fall in love and my heart is telling me she is the one, do you think I need a piece of paper to prove to Allah I am sincere? Do you think the girl would see my oath towards her being stronger simply because I sign a paper? If she does she is misguided thinking a signature can govern my heart. The oath I take with Allah as my witness surpasses any paper,

So marriage is simple, your heart will tell you and it will tell Allah, and then you have taken an oath. The rest has nothing to do with Allah because he already knows. The rest is all what society wants you to do.....

i I understand your opinion. However, if you read my post  carefully,you will found the nikah contract, as described in the Koran.You should take your oath for witnesses but, human witnesses, because this treaty is so important in the eyes of Allah. Then the Mahr belongs to the marriage  ( see 4.25)
In my understanding, it is also better, and in accordance with Allah's law, that the marriage contract is in writing form as such. Compare 2.282 where should  be two witnesses for a loan. If the spouses  comes from different cultural backgrounds,  the contract prevent possible controversies (specially also when it's come for Talaq). This,not  to complicate matters unnecessarily, but to prevent abuse (specially for the women). This nikah takes five minutes, what we lost? We should bow to the Wisdom of Allah. He is the Knower, the Wise.

[Kaiokenred]

when i separated from my ex, we both mutually agreed to it by declaring verbally that we are separated.   we still lived in the same apartment but didn't have physical contact.  this was the period of working on our relationship.  well, it didn't work.  and so we decided on divorce. verbally and via e-mail we declared ourselves no longer husband and wife.  my ex moved out.  we took care of property and such keeping things civil.  then i filed for legal divorce. 

now, why can't the same be true of marriage?  i have read various opinions and views on marriage where everything is so heavy on tradition, hadiths and such.  why do people make things so complicated?  two people meet and now with cell phones, internet, skype, and such makes it a whole lot easy to get to know each other to see about compatibility, shared views and such without kissing, hugging, and such (keeping it all islamic).  once a couple make that decision to marry, why can't they just declare their intentions/oath and then proceed with the legal ceremony/documentation?    simple as that.

You should replace that with sex and such stuff. Kissing and especially hugging ( even before marriage) aren't unislamic

[BornAgain]

Salaam Emil,

While God witnesses all things, I understand that the Qur'aan prescribes what need to be undertaken before a man and a woman are to marry, such as having mutual attraction, declaring intention to marry, and having marriage contract withnessed by believers. Of course the marriage contract needs not to be coupled by extravagant wedding - that is purely cultural, and not spiritual.

The idea that God is sufficient as the witness of the reunion of two souls does sound very romantic, but it may not be as 'simple' like that. I personally belief that the idea of having a marriage contract witnessed by honourable individuals is to give protection and recognition to both parties involved. Firstly, if the society recognises that the couple is married, then no one can accuse that they perform fornication. Then, if for any reason the marriage does not work out, the woman is protected by Qur'aanic laws that:

1) She will be given four months cooling period and not divorced straight after;
2) Retain the possession of the mahr; and
3) She will retain her wealth and not be kicked out of the house.

It is not all about superficial legalization. It's all about giving social recognition and protection. If a woman cannot produce an evidence that she is married to her husband, how can she claim the above-mentioned rights if her husband suddenly turns his back on her and wants to divorce her straight away? Unfortunately for you, this 'piece of paper' becomes the evidence. Going to court and testifying that, "A few years ago we made verbal contracts that we are married in the eyes of God" may not suffice in the case where the husband denies the marriage.

God does not need the paper to legalize the marriage of a man and a woman. The public marriage contract is for people, and not for God. It serves to recognise and protect, in the case of misfortune.

Also bear in mind that in the distant past, many women were inherited against their will. Some men married women as to claim their wealth (inherited by their husbands), as well as their status. Many divorced the women once they claimed their wealth, which left the women to be severely disadvantaged.

This is when marriage contract (on a physical scribe witnessed by honourable individuals) becomes neccessary.

Anyway, marriage contract can be done modestly, and you don't have to do what the society expects you to do. You don't need to have extravagant wedding with enormous cake, expensive wedding attires, grand reception, etc.

[BornAgain]

For the OP of this thread,

once a couple make that decision to marry, why can't they just declare their intentions/oath and then proceed with the legal ceremony/documentation?    simple as that.

Of course you can. I am not sure about where you reside at the moment, but in Australia, the presence of civil celebrant and two sound witnesses are sufficient to make the marriage recognised by the state. I understand that the Qur'aanic approach is similar (apart from the request of dowry by the bride).

That's if you can withstand the social criticism that may arise from your not conforming to the traditional approach. What is legally and/or Qur'aanically acceptable may not be socially acceptable, unfortunately.

two people meet and now with cell phones, internet, skype, and such makes it a whole lot easy to get to know each other to see about compatibility, shared views and such without kissing, hugging, and such (keeping it all islamic)

In contemporary society, many believe that the-getting-to-know phase needs to involve physical interaction such as hugging and kissing, or even sexual intercourse. One can argue that the couple needs to know if they are physically/sexually compatible. It's their belief, and of course we are free to disagree.

If you feel that one or the combination of emotional, intellectual and spiritual incompatibilities shall be enough to base a marriage, then by all means go for it! Many may disagree, but ultimately it is your belief, your choice and your life.

[Emil]

Salamu aleikum Emil
i I understand your opinion. However, if you read my post  carefully,you will found the nikah contract, as described in the Koran.You should take your oath for witnesses but, human witnesses, because this treaty is so important in the eyes of Allah. Then the Mahr belongs to the marriage  ( see 4.25)
In my understanding, it is also better, and in accordance with Allah's law, that the marriage contract is in writing form as such. Compare 2.282 where should  be two witnesses for a loan. If the spouses  comes from different cultural backgrounds,  the contract prevent possible controversies (specially also when it's come for Talaq). This,not  to complicate matters unnecessarily, but to prevent abuse (specially for the women). This nikah takes five minutes, what we lost? We should bow to the Wisdom of Allah. He is the Knower, the Wise.

Salaam dear sister

I understand what you mean, and I am sorry I was not clear in my writing. When I read back now it sounds a bit like I am disregarding the ceremony, Nikkah, witnesses, signing of papers etc. Like its not important.....Not my intention.

What I was trying to put forth is that the oath taken between a man and a woman with Allah as their witness is the strongest bond/contract there will be. If you break this oath your judgement will be in the grace of Allah. The oath taken by you supersedes any contract, any witness, any "proof" that you are married to your spouse. Nobody but Him knows the reason for you to get married, only He knows if you are true in your heart. Signing a piece of paper is a false security, it does not guarantee your husband or wife will stay true to you.
And when it comes to witnesses.........Of course there must be witnesses but what is a witness? If I would meet you for example and introduce my wife as "my wife" don't you become a witness to my proclamation that the woman standing next to me is my wife? Your neigbours, family, friends, not-so-close friends, your pals at work.......They are all witnesses, aren't they? I do not think all those people should be disregarded just because their name is not on a piece of paper.
And I am truly sorry that a Nikkah is a guarantee against abuse, especially for women....A marriage should be nothing about that and there is a fundamental flaw in society if women need a signed paper in order to have some kind of security. In my experience the Nikkah has had the opposite effect, abusive men using Allah to hold on to their wives. I just want to scream out that these men have broken their covenant with God. How on earth can a piece of paper be a stronger bond than an oath taken in the name of Allah?

Please dont get me wrong. When I got married I was the one who insisted on throwing a lavish party and we danced all night long, I am a romantic and I wanted the whole nine yards. I liked it so much we actually had two ceremonies........But I do realize that the ceremony did not change my heart. What mattered was when I promised my wife that I would love, protect and cherish her for the rest of my life.........And the only one that heard that promise except for her was Allah.

[mirjamnur]

dear brother
yes now it is much more clear! i'm 100% agree with you .
your write:
And I am truly sorry that a Nikkah is a guarantee against abuse, especially for women....A marriage should be nothing about that and there is a fundamental flaw in society if women need a signed paper in order to have some kind of security. In my experience the Nikkah has had the opposite effect, abusive men using Allah to hold on to their wives. I just want to scream out that these men have broken their covenant with God. How on earth can a piece of paper be a stronger bond than an oath taken in the name of Allah?
i feel the same but our society seems to need this  because their faith in Allah is not how it should be..
salaam

[justamuslim]

The public marriage contract is for people, and not for God. It serves to recognise and protect, in the case of misfortune.

Not necessarily.  Whether you have legal papers, witnesses or no witnesses, someone who is not of spiritual mind will find a way to abuse.     

My ex did everything he could from owning up to my grounds for divorce which was that he was abusive to me.  And then he even asked for alimony as I was making more than him.  Finally after 1-1/2 years, i got my divorce.  This public legal marriage sure didn't protect me. 

A good man with good intentions abiding by the will of God will protect, respect and honor a woman regardless.  A man who is abusive will mistreat a woman finding his ways regardless of any laws of God or men.  I am speaking from personal experience.