Author Topic: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.  (Read 12383 times)

Wakas

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Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2013, 11:27:36 AM »
peace all,

The idea is a good one but like many projects it requires certain things for it to work. I have completed several projects in this area and have experience publishing also.

I would be happy to lead this project but it will require ACTUAL input, not talk.


First thing we need to do is get some structure to this work, then we can divide the work amongst us:

1) list some of the key areas/subjects we will tackle - i.e. what are our strongest arguments against Traditional Islam

2) what are the most common arguments against 'Quran based islam' brought up by Traditional Muslims
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Noble Reign

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Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2013, 12:18:11 PM »
Which projects are that Wakas? Did you read the link?

Peace Be With You.l
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PixelAngelBaby

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Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2013, 03:35:06 PM »
You definitely have to work on this guys!  I feel it is the least we can do. Its our Duty! Do you guys have a dropbox account set up? Let me know if there are any less intelligent (not well read) tasks I can do:-) !
...I hate these scholars looming over us, in the shadows, wherever we go they appear. Scholars, scholars, scholars...

Azz

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Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2013, 07:02:44 PM »
I'd like to say I'd be able to help, but as someone currently grappling with doubt (on faith and other things) I'm not sure I'm fit to do so.

Perhaps it need not be said, but just in case, I would like to mention something. A full on, effective refutation would need to be relatively in-depth. It will not be enough to simply argue that the Quran is complete. Ahl al-hadith often do not care about that. You would need to, beyond reasonable doubt, also prove that the hadith, tabari's tafsir, etc are unreliable sources of religious authority.

That being said, I hope this gets off the ground succesfully and becomes a thing. I feel there is a large amount of good material buried in these forums already, stuff that just needs to be put polished and then all brought together.

Wakas

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Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2013, 05:08:38 AM »
First thing we need to do is get some structure to this work, then we can divide the work amongst us:

1) list some of the key areas/subjects we will tackle - i.e. what are our strongest arguments against Traditional Islam

2) what are the most common arguments against 'Quran based islam' brought up by Traditional Muslims

To begin, we can link to the various articles across the web that address the above, e.g.

http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran_True_Sunnah_of_Messenger_Naveed.htm
http://kashifshahzada.com/library/the-authority-of-al-quran/
http://free-minds.org/articles?tid=4

etc.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Emil

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Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2013, 04:00:34 PM »
Question..............what is the purpose of this refutation, to once and for all make sunnis understand they are wrong or to inform sunnis there is a way to be a muslim without hadith?

If this project has the philosophy of proving them wrong it is doomed from the beginning. There is no way to beat dogma with logic.

I think it is worth investigating a little to see if there is any proof if some sunni traditions are older than prophet Muhammed.....For example circumicision=jewish/pagan/christian arab tradition incorporated into sunni islam based on a very vague hadith. However when you look it in the Quran it is clear it doesnt matter if you follow jewish traditions and off a piece of skin, you can still be a muslim.

I am not good at retorics, anyone understand my rambling? To show them they are out of the straight path, but it's ok, Allah will forgive them.It is not their fault they have been force-fed as children.

PixelAngelBaby

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Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2013, 04:40:35 PM »
Question..............what is the purpose of this refutation, to once and for all make sunnis understand they are wrong or to inform sunnis there is a way to be a muslim without hadith?

If this project has the philosophy of proving them wrong it is doomed from the beginning. There is no way to beat dogma with logic.

I think it is worth investigating a little to see if there is any proof if some sunni traditions are older than prophet Muhammed.....For example circumicision=jewish/pagan/christian arab tradition incorporated into sunni islam based on a very vague hadith. However when you look it in the Quran it is clear it doesnt matter if you follow jewish traditions and off a piece of skin, you can still be a muslim.

I am not good at retorics, anyone understand my rambling? To show them they are out of the straight path, but it's ok, Allah will forgive them.It is not their fault they have been force-fed as children.

I agree. An indirect approach is best. No one will listen if they feel threatened. Not to mention Allah said to preach with kindness and wisdom.
...I hate these scholars looming over us, in the shadows, wherever we go they appear. Scholars, scholars, scholars...

Wakas

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Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2013, 11:20:04 AM »
peace,

Question..............what is the purpose of this refutation, to once and for all make sunnis understand they are wrong or to inform sunnis there is a way to be a muslim without hadith?

For me it is primarily about having a comprehensive source that is widely available, relatively simple to understand, well referenced........... so I/we can refer people to it if they are seeking answers about this or challenging us about it. Personally, I'm not that interested in debating people about it, I'd rather just link to a quality source, then if they want to read it fine, if not, that's their choice.

I would say however, that there is plenty of info out there already (more than ever) for those wishing to investigate, but perhaps not all in one place and/or good quality mixed in with poor quality etc.


All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Aamer

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Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2013, 12:21:46 PM »
Sunnis (95% of them) won't listen to reason. They're not interested in the truth. They like belonging to a powerful, intimidating, holier than thou group. The target market should really be new converts who are falsely guided by Sunnis & truth seekers. We should also place an emphasis on the scientific and mathematical miracles of Quran. Not necessarily code 19 (Too complicated). But there are many others which most people are not aware of.

I have a good compilation of self incriminating Bukhari and can write. I've seen many other excellent writers on this board, better than myself, as well. Let me know if I can help in any way.
If it ain't in the Quran... It ain't relevant to our salvation.

Emil

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Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2013, 01:25:59 PM »
I would say however, that there is plenty of info out there already (more than ever) for those wishing to investigate, but perhaps not all in one place and/or good quality mixed in with poor quality etc.

I completely agree, it is a very good idea to conclude in one place with reliable references. I was merely pointing out that in order to reach out and with the help of Allah make even a single sunni question his own belief. Then the "place" he can find information should not be named "refutation" to Sunnis. It should also not label sunnism as a "sect" as the article on f-m you linked to.

It will only make people defensive from the start. The best way to make a person realize he is wrong is to give him the tools to realize it by himself. It seldom works if he is told by another he is wrong.

This is something I miss on the f-m........There are a lot of articles about how wrong sunnism/shia and hadiths are bad. If I was a sunni I would feel quite offended. There is not one article describing the QA muslim, how we look at islam and how we are able to live without hadith. If we can put together a piece like that it would a very good refutation against sunnis without even having told them that they are wrong.

The target market should really be new converts who are falsely guided by Sunnis & truth seekers.

This is true. A person who seeks knowledge in islam and goes to the local mosque will never be even close to hearing of AQ.