Author Topic: The parable of the spider's house... Quran, 29:41  (Read 5476 times)

Wakas

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The parable of the spider's house... Quran, 29:41
« on: February 04, 2011, 02:48:28 PM »
peace all,

There are various interpretations of this verse, with many thinking that it refers to the spider's web, but this interpretation has always been debated since some spiders do not live in/on their webs. As far as I know, most do not. Most spiders use whatever is around them. There have been forum discussions on this verse in the past.

I have been studying the usage of the verb "to take" (Alif-Kha-Thal) in its relation to maSJD, and I noticed that in 29:41 it is very common for translations to translate this verb differently (it occurs twice), i.e. one way when it is used by humans and another way when it is used by the spider. Once I looked into that, a much more appropriate understanding of the verse became clear:


So each We took for his sin. Some of them We sent upon him violent storms, some of them were taken by the blast, some of them We caused the Earth to swallow, and some of them We drowned. God is not the One who wronged them; it is they who wronged themselves. [29:40]

The parable of those who took* (to/for themselves) other than God as protector, is like the spider who took* (to/for itself) a house; and the weakest house is the house of the spider, if they only knew. [29:41]
*Verb form 8: reflexive.

Surely, God knows whatever they call upon instead of Him. He is Powerful, Wise. [29:42]


###

Notes:

The difference between "take" and "make/build" is significant. The latter option is often chosen by translators when it comes to the spider.
Like the people of the verse prior to 29:41, they had their houses but they had little control of greater forces which were capable of destroying what they chose as habitations and where they lived. Similarly, when a person takes a protector, they expect their protector to protect them, that is the whole point, so a wise person will make a wise choice. What the vast majority of spiders do is use what is around them and take that as their house/bayt, whether it be a tree, a person's house, cave etc and whatever the spider takes for its house/protection, is also subject to greater forces that could destroy it. Whether the spider realises this or not, it still applies, and similarly whether the human realises it or not, the same applies when we take a protector. In other words, the parable's message is: think and take wisely, because the only true protector is the greater force, and of course, the greatest force above all is God.... if we only knew.

As far as I know, the above is the only understanding which is true to the verb's meaning and form, bayt as house and verse context.

###


Thoughts?
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

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Mazhar

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Re: The parable of the spider's house... Quran, 29:41
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2011, 03:26:12 PM »
:Perception and meanings; it is NOT Spider's Web.


Web of the Spider is not a house but it is a trap. A trap is built, constructed, structured, made. One could infer "Spider's web" if the words used were "بيَّت البيت""constructed a house". Male and female spider do not live together as a family therefore there can't be a question of family mansion. Male and Female construct/build traps individually and separately. Male and female belonging to even the same specie do not come closer when overpowered by the desire of mating. They first introduce and recognize each other before coming closer for love and sex.

Perception and meanings; it is NOT Spider's Web.

In Urdu,

مکڑی کی روش کی مماثلت =آج کے مسلمان کی روش

loxbox13

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Re: The parable of the spider's house... Quran, 29:41
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2011, 06:28:07 PM »
:Perception and meanings; it is NOT Spider's Web.


Web of the Spider is not a house but it is a trap. A trap is built, constructed, structured, made. One could infer "Spider's web" if the words used were "بيَّت البيت""constructed a house". Male and female spider do not live together as a family therefore there can't be a question of family mansion. Male and Female construct/build traps individually and separately. Male and female belonging to even the same specie do not come closer when overpowered by the desire of mating. They first introduce and recognize each other before coming closer for love and sex.

Perception and meanings; it is NOT Spider's Web.

In Urdu,

مکڑی کی روش کی مماثلت =آج کے مسلمان کی روش

Allah parable is wise
Bayt never mean  a couple
and the couple of Spiders are ,  one time sexe and the spider femele kills the male
that is why Allah gave the spiders couple as a parable for the weakest family

In the arabic language,  Bayt means the couple,  like the bayt of the prophet purified,  meaning the prophet and his wifes
bayt of spider means the male and femele spider couple where the male lives only for one time sexe than Bahhhh , he's dead , killed by the femele

it is a perfect parable

Mazhar

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Re: The parable of the spider's house... Quran, 29:41
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2011, 02:36:18 AM »
Quote
bayt of spider means the male and femele spider couple where the male lives only for one time sexe than Bahhhh , he's dead , killed by the femele

it is a perfect parable

It is a myth and is not true. It happens in some species. Many species enjoy sex and part peacefully without any harm. In the Ayat the mention is only of a female spider and not about couple.

Wakas

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Re: The parable of the spider's house... Quran, 29:41
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2011, 03:36:12 AM »
peace Mazhar,

Yes I was aware of your view. The choice of "bayt" for the female's eggs seems to be more sensible than the traditional view, but falls a little short as the verse says it is technically the spider's bayt not her eggs, and also the context weights it towards what I said above.


peace loxbox13,

As far as I'm aware, that only happens in a minority of cases, and also it doesn't fit the context, so I think you're way off with that interpretation.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Mazhar

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Re: The parable of the spider's house... Quran, 29:41
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2011, 06:31:29 AM »
peace Mazhar,

Yes I was aware of your view. The choice of "bayt" for the female's eggs seems to be more sensible than the traditional view, but falls a little short as the verse says it is technically the spider's bayt not her eggs, and also the context weights it towards what I said above.

peace loxbox13,

As far as I'm aware, that only happens in a minority of cases, and also it doesn't fit the context, so I think you're way off with that interpretation.

The verbal sentence is the description of circumstance of female spider.

SEid

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Re: The parable of the spider's house... Quran, 29:41
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2011, 07:40:46 AM »
House Spider Myths

Myth: Spiders come into houses in the fall to get out of the cold.

Fact: This seemingly simple idea conceals many false assumptions. In reality, house spiders are usually not the same species as the yard or garden spiders outside the house.

House spiders belong to a small number of species specially adapted for indoor conditions (constant climate, poor food supply, very poor water supply). Some house spider species have been living indoors at least since the days of the Roman Empire, and are seldom to be found outside, even in their native countries (usually Europe). Many of these species now live in houses worldwide, and most have been carried by commerce to more than one continent. Few are adapted to North American outdoor environments.

House spiders colonize new houses by egg sacs carried on furniture, building materials and so forth. They usually spend their entire life cycle in, on or under their native building. If a large number appear at a specific season, it is usually late summer (August and September) -- not a notably cold time of year! -- rather than fall, and their appearance coincides with the mating season of the given species. What you are seeing is sexually mature males wandering in search of mates.

The females and young remain hidden for the most part, in crawlspaces, storage areas and other neglected rooms; wall and floor voids; behind furniture and appliances, etc. Generally fewer than 5% of the spiders you see indoors have ever been outdoors.

In contrast, outdoor spider species are not adapted to indoor conditions. Any North American spider that needed artificial shelter for the winter, would have been extinct long before Europeans arrived! Spiders are "cold-blooded" and not attracted to warmth. They don't shiver or get uncomfortable when it's cold, they just become less active and eventually, dormant. Most temperate zone spiders have enough "antifreeze" in their bodies that they won't freeze at any temperature down to -5? C.; some can get colder. The few typical outdoor spiders that do end up indoors, die or at least don't reproduce.


29:41 Example those who take from besides Allah protectors like the spider who takes a house.


Wakas

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Re: The parable of the spider's house... Quran, 29:41
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2011, 04:13:26 PM »
peace all,

I forgot to say:

By the use of "if you know" at the end of 29:41 implies it is not something blatantly obvious, hence web is lesser likely.
Also, by the use of "So each We took for his sin" in the prior verse could be an interesting play on words/concepts, because a "sin" is basically a choice we make, and the result is We took (same verb in 29:41) them for their choice, and in 29:41 it is the person's choice of protector that is the issue, and of course if a person chooses God there is no need for God to take them as they are already with God. Simple.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org