Author Topic: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!  (Read 18576 times)

progod

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True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« on: December 31, 2010, 01:58:44 PM »
Now before, you make up your mind or make an opinion on this first read it. Then before you decide to say 'What does it really matter?', 'Who cares what color the Arabs were?' and 'This doesn't matter' becaue 'We're all human beings' or 'We're all believers' or 'We all come form Africa', ask yourself this:

Did you know this before you read this?
Did you think that there was no such thing as a black Arab and that true Arabs look like all other Middle Easterners i.e. Turks, Kurds and Persians?
Did you think that Black Arabs were the result of slave trafficking from Africa?
Did you think that true Arabs were different racially from other Africans, especially Horn Africans?
Did you think that Arabs (or any other people for that matter) have always looked the same throughout the millenia?

If you said yes to any of those questions than your misconceptions have been correct and you should thank Allah that you have learned truth today, dispelled lies and have conquered ignorance. So, understand these truth, move on and challenge anyone else who would tell a lie, either purposefully or ignorantly on this topic now that you know the truth. If you refuse to accept these truths than know that you are lying to yourself for whatever the reason and that this tendency to reject truth and lie to yourself is probably manifesting in other facets of your life. So here it is:

Nineth century poet Abu Al-Hasan Ali ibn Al-Abbas ibn Jurayj, known as Ibn Al-Rumi, wrote a long poem to the Abbasids blaming them for the way that they treated the family of the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS). It should be understood that at that time, the Abbasids had become very mixed with the Romans, Greeks, and Persians. Here is part of what Ibn Al-Rumi said in his famous poem called Al-Jeemia:


"You insulted them (the family of the Prophet Mohamed) because of their blackness while there are still pure-blooded black-skinned Arabs. However, you are blue- the Romans have embellished your faces with their color."

What does blue mean here in Classical Arabic? Lisanul-Arab says:

ابن سيده: الزُّرْقة البياض حيثما كان، والزُّرْقة: خضرة في سواد العين، وقيل: هو أَن يتغشَّى سوادَها بياضٌ،

"According to Ibn Sayyidah: Blueness is fairness/whiteness wherever it may be. And Blueness is a (tint) of green in the blackness/darkness of one's eye. It is said: It when the darkness/blackness of the eye is overpowered by fairness/whiteness."

So blue in Arabic (in addition to red) means fairness/whiteness, and when it comes to the eyes, when fairness overpowers the darkness in one's eye. This can also be applied to fairness in skin tone as well. The quote above uses the term blue like the definition of eye color given in Lisanul-Arab. He clearly says that it is the prominence of Roman/Byzantyne blood which made many Arabs quite fair-skinned compared to the much blacker/deep browner skin-tone of the purer Arabs. During that time those who claimed relation to the last prophet (sas) had maintained their Arab lineage much purer than other Arabs.

SOME MORE INTERESTING THINGS TO READ

A True Description of the Prophet Mohamed's Family (SAWS)
The term Sharif (nobleman) or Sayyid is used to describe a descendant of the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS) through his daughter Fatima (RAA). They are descendants of Al Hasan and Al Husein- the two sons of Ali ibn Abi Talib (RAA) and Fatima the daughter of the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS). The Prophet Mohamed (SAWS) and Ali ibn Abi Talib (RAA) are from the Bani Hashim branch of the tribe of Quraish. They are the noblest of the Arabs. The Prophet Mohamed (SAWS) and Ali ibn Abi Talib (RAA) were first cousins. Ali?s father, Abi Talib, was the brother of the Prophet?s (SAWS) father. Once it has been established that the Bani Hashim were a black-skinned people, there should be no need to prove that the pure Arabs of the past were, in general, a black-skinned people.

In discussing the appearance of the Sharifs, I believe that it is appropriate for me to begin with the father of the Sharifs- Ali ibn Abi Talib (RAA). In his book Tarikh Al-Khulafaa (The History of the Caliphs), Imam Al-Suyuti described Ali ibn Abi Talib as follows:


و كان علي شيخا سمينا أصلع كثير الشعر ربعة إلى القصر عظيم البطن عظيم اللحية جدا قد ملأت ما بين منكبيه بيضاء كأنها قطن آدم شديد الأدمة

Ali was a heavyset, bald, hairy man of average height which leaned toward shortness. He had a large stomach and a large beard which filled all that was between his shoulders. His beard was white as if it was cotton and he was a black-skinned man.

There are certain names that we usually hear when the Sharifs or Sayyids - the family of the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS) are mentioned. We have all probably heard of Ali Zein Al-Abidin the son of ِAl-Husein the son of Ali the son of Abu Talib. Though his mother was Persian, he is described as dark-skinned (see Ibn Al-Sabaagh Al-Maaliki's Al-Fusoul Al-Muhimma). Where did he get his dark complexion from? From his father's side of the family, of course. This Ali Zein Al-Abidin the son of ِAl-Husein the son of Ali the son of Abu Talib married Fatima the daughter of Al-Hasan the son of Ali the son of Abi Talib.

Mohamed Al-Baqir- another name we hear when there is mention of the Sharifs, the family of the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS) - was the eldest son of Ali Zein Al-Abidin and Fatima the daughter of Al-Hasan. He was nicknamed "He Who Resembles" because he looked so much like the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS). He was described as dark-skinned, kinky-haired, and of average height (see Ibn Al-Sabaagh Al-Maaliki's Al-Fusoul Al-Muhimma). Mohamed Al-Baqir married Umm Farwa, the great granddaughter of Abu Bakr Al-Saddiq and they had Jaafar Al-Saadiq. Jaafar Al-Saadiq is another name frequently heard when speaking of the family of the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS). He was described as black-skinned, kinky-haired, and average height (see Ibn Al-Sabaagh Al-Maaliki's Al-Fusoul Al-Muhimma).

Jaafar Al-Saadiq had a Berber slave-girl named Humaida and through her he had his son Musa Al-Kadhim - another well-known member of the family of the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS) whom many Sharifs claim descent from. Musa Al-Kadhim was described as very black-skinned (see Ibn Al-Sabaagh Al-Maaliki's Al-Fusoul Al-Muhimma).

Musa Al-Kadhim's son Ali Al-Rida is another well-known member of the family of the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS) whom many Sharifs claim descent from. He, too, was described as black-skinned. He was once standing in a bathhouse when a soldier entered and pushed him to the side and said, "Pour water on my head oh black one!" Ali Al-Rida began to pour water for the soldier and then someone who knew who Ali Al-Rida was entered the bathhouse and when he saw what was happening he shouted, "Oh soldier! Woe to you! Do you dare have the son of the daughter of the Messenger of Allah (SAWS) serve you?!" The soldier quickly began to kiss the feet of Ali Al-Rida and said, "Why didn't you disobey me when I ordered you?!" (see Shaykh Shablanji's, famous book ?Nur al Absar fi Manaqeb Aal bayt el Nabi al Mukhtar).

Ali Al-Rida had a son named Mohamed Al-Jawaad also known as Mohamed Al-Taqi. Mohamed Al-Jawaad was also described as very black-skinned. (see Ibn Shahrashoob's Manaqib Aal Abi-Talib) Mohamed Al-Jawaad or Al-Taqi had a son named Ali Al-Hadi. Ali Al-Hadi, too, was described as dark-skinned (see Abi Al Abbas Al Qarmaani's Akhbaar Al Dawal).

You have all probably heard of Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia. He is Mohamed the son of Abdella the Pure-Blooded the son of Al-Hasan the son of Al-Hasan the son of Ali the son of Abi Talib. Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia was nicknamed the Pure-Blooded of Quraish because he was so unmixed. His father Abdella was also nicknamed the Pure-Blooded. Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia was from the Bani Hashim clan of Quraish from both his mother and his father. Remember that Bani Hashim is the clan of Quraish that the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS) and Ali (RAA) are from. Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia was described as very black-skinned and huge (see Al Haafidh Al Dhahabi's Al Ibar Fi Khabar Man Ghabar). He had a son named Hasan. His son Hasan was nicknamed The Father of the Tar because he was so black-skinned (see Ibn Hazim's Jumharat Ansaab Al Arab). This is the description of the pure-blooded descendants of the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS). Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia wrote a letter to the Abbasid ruler complaining to him that he had more right to be the ruler because he was so closely related to the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS). Amongst the things he said in his letter to the Abbasid ruler was, "We are in the right...Our father Ali was the Imam (leader). How did you inherit the rule which belongs to the children of Ali?! You know that no one who seeks this position (ruler) has a purer genealogy than I do or is more highborn than I am...You know that no one has as close relations or relations to anyone better than he whom I am very closely related to (He means the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS)). I am from the best of Banu Hashim in genealogy and the noblest of them both paternally and maternally. No non-Arab blood runs through my veins and I am not related to the slave-girls." Bear in mind that Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia, who is here talking about how pure his Arab blood is and how closely he is related to the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS), was very black-skinned.

Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia had a brother named Musa Al-Jawn (the Black). Musa Al-Jawn was also very black-skinned. He was nicknamed Al-Jawn (the Black) because of his blackness (see Al Asfahaani's Kitaab Al Aghaani). The Sharifs called Banu Al-Akhaidar, who are found in Oman, Saudi Arabia, and other places, are descended from Musa Al-Jawn.

Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia and Musa Al-Jawn had another brother named Yahya the Possessor of Daylum. Yahya, too, was described as black-skinned (see Al Asfahaani's Muqaatil Al Taalibiyeen). Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia, Musa Al-Jawn and Yahya the Possessor of Daylum were all the brothers of Idriss the 1st, the father of the Idrissi Sharifs and the founder of the city of Fes in Morocco.

There you have it. These are the ancestors of the Sharifs or the Sayyids - the family of the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS) and as you have seen, they were all dark-skinned people. The question that remains to be answered is this - why aren't the masses aware of this fact?
Please visit:
www.savethetruearabs.blogspot.com
www.savethetruearabs.com

Godbless,
anwar
The Quranists Must Rise!

http://www.quranists.com

progod

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2010, 02:07:16 PM »
Peace,

I would like to add that yes many of those original black Arabs opposed their black tribesman Muhammad (Godbless him) whom God had chosen as his prophet and messenger. Many of them were the most despicable of creatures. So no one should think for a minute that because these people were black and/or Arab that they were some how superior to anyone else. And yes they created a great empire but at what cost are ALL empires created? Usually at the cost of the freedom of many and at the cost of truth, as power will seek to maintain itself no matter what. So, yes the Arabs were black and yes they created great empires which through cultural fusion with surrounding peoples spread light to much of the world, but for all its good and for its few benevolent and just rulers how many were ethnocentrist corruptors of the religion of the Quran who leaned towards pagan ways  more than towards the Quran? In addition to that how many of those original Arabs upheld the book and its ultimate rule but were overrun by persian and byzantines of the levant and their influence in the lands conquered by Arabs and even in the original Arab homelands? Food for thought.

Godbless,
Anwar
The Quranists Must Rise!

http://www.quranists.com

Mushu

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2010, 04:27:56 PM »
Did you think that true Arabs were different racially from other Africans, especially Horn Africans?

There is no such thing as a 'true Arab'.

Quote
If you said yes to any of those questions than your misconceptions have been correct and you should thank Allah that you have learned truth today, dispelled lies and have conquered ignorance. So, understand these truth, move on and challenge anyone else who would tell a lie, either purposefully or ignorantly on this topic now that you know the truth. If you refuse to accept these truths than know that you are lying to yourself for whatever the reason and that this tendency to reject truth and lie to yourself is probably manifesting in other facets of your life. So here it is:

This doesn't answer any of the pre-empted questions you asked at the start of your post:

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What does it really matter?',

You didn't explain why it does matter that ancient Arabs were black.

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Who cares what color the Arabs were?

Yes, why should anyone care what colour the ancient Arabs were?  Does it serve a purpose? 

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This doesn't matter' because 'We're all human beings' or 'We're all believers' or 'We all come form Africa'

Yep, I'd agree with this statement.  We are all humans, so it doesn't matter that the ancient Arabs were black.

What purpose does it serve to know the skin complexion of people gone?  If you're trying to fight racism against black people in the Arab psyche, then I support you in every way, and this may well be a good way of going about it.  But other than that I don't see why this is relevant.   



"There is one thing in this world which must never be forgotten. If you were to forget everything else, but this one thing, then you may have no fear; but were you to remember to do every single thing, but forget that one thing, then you would have done nothing at all."  - Jalal Uddin Rumi

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progod

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2010, 05:20:53 PM »
Peace,

It matters because to know truth and to dispel lies and misconceptions is noble in and of itself. It is obvious that this adresses big misconcpetions. Being Arab is also a linguistic and cultural complex, however there are aboriginal Arabs just as their are aboriginal Americans and aboriginal Australians and aboriginal south Africans. To think that the immigrants are the original people and always have been is to believe something false which can lead to respect not being given where it should be. There are still many aboriginal Arabs in all of the Middle East as well as nothern Africa, as well as aboriginal berbers. People have a big misconception about Arabs so before they make an opinion or a false statement they should know these things. More than fighting racism amongst Arabs it is also to fight racism and the miseducation of the world populace about who these people were and who they are today. Many false things have been stated about Arabs (and I have heard them with my own ears and read them with my own eyes) and have been passed off and believed as fact when they are pure ignorance and lies. The process of arabization has made many non-Arabs and Arabs with minimal Arab lineage into Arabs. So there is no doubt that now and even back then that Arabization allowed for non-aboriginal Arabs to be incorporated into the Arab identity. But let's not forget who the aboriginal Arabs were and are and what they looked and look like. Because for an Arab to dislike a black person because he is black is to dislike the purity of the identity he claims to be apart of. Also there has been a lot of big time brainwashing by European and Western education to white wash the Arabs, the ancient Egyptians and the Berbers and to deny the history that has led them to being black in thier minority instead of in their majority as it was in the past. On top of that they have claimed that the black people within these groups are the descendents of slaves. A gross lie, where they impose their experience with West Africans in the West African slave trade onto those groups, when it was immigration and mainly centuries of white slavery which made many Berbers, Arabs and northern Egyptians caucasiod in their majority today. So again the point of tihs knowledge is to dispel lies and teach truth.

Godbless,
Anwar

Godbless,
Anwar
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SarahY

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2010, 06:06:35 PM »
Most people know that back in the time Arabs were darker skinned, dunno about "black" but it's a possibility. However a counterargument could be; didn't the first migration take place to a "black" nation Abyssina? or something?

no doubt countries got influenced by invasions/interracial marriages etc

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The process of arabization has made many non-Arabs and Arabs with minimal Arab lineage into Arabs. So there is no doubt that now and even back then that Arabization allowed for non-aboriginal Arabs to be incorporated into the Arab identity

what do you mean by arabization? there's a book on Muslim Studies 1 by Ignaz, he talks a bit about this. a lot of Persians took upon themselves "Arab" identity and they had a strong influence esp on islam. During 3rd century they were respected because of this they went out and studied islam, even taught islam and it is said they brought back with them and reintroduced persian practices which restored persian religious customs back to islam. it seemed they influenced "arabization" way before Byzantine's. Persians used to make up their lineages and if they didn't get caught well they got away with it, and many did according to Ignaz. Persians were known for good memory so it was like they were trying to outwit the arabs. Ignaz talks how persians weren't looked at in positive light, so if they could identify themselves as an arab they could reach to a high position or power. Arabs called them by diff term; the ones who were friends, the ones who were servants and something else but i can't seem to recall the name

the significance of colour is just history if you wanna fight racism well arabs have racism even in old times northern verses southern arabs hated each other even wrote malicious poetry against each other. it is known that the prophet came to preach love, respect and return people back to goodness.

standing up to truth? well i guess all i can say is God knows best

peace
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progod

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2010, 10:37:30 PM »
Peace,

Umm, Sarah did you read the original post? They were black like the Ethiopians. Black. And If you read the lexicons and the early sources there is no doubting it. It says this in plain language. Arab tribes even fought with each other before and unfortunately after Islam. Yeah persians learned Arabic and aspired to become Arabs. It is called at-ta'arrubu or al-isti'raab. The persians were smart people but many of them were key in corrupting and adding to the religion of the Quran. Many of them added to knowledge in Arabic and sciences that will always be appreciated. There was so much mixing with Persians, Levantine Byzantines, Levantine Greco-Romans, Armenians, Kurds, Slavs and Turks that this becoming an Arab without anyone making a big deal of it became possible (and there are tons of names for all the different sorts of mixtures and who in your family was an Arab or a non-Arab), although it was known (before colonialism) that the purer Arabs remained black. In pre-islamic times if you were the color of a persian or a levantine they said you were red/white like a slave and they disliked fair skin and took pride in their dark skin. Mainly because who dark they were was proof of the purity of their Arab lineage, which they took great pride in. Again, read my original post thoroughly please. And if you doubt all of the detailed sources and the 13th century (and previous) authorities on the Arabic language in Lisanul-Arab and other Arabic classics, well, I can't do anything for you. No one can. Yes according to the histories some Arab Muslims went to Ethiopia to escape persecution and yes Bilal was a black Ethiopian. But not only was he black but the Arabs he lived amongst were as black and some blacker than he was.  For instance the famous crows (al-aghribatu) of Arabia. Who were so black that they were nicknamed crows. And described as dark as bitumen and tar. Arabs of pure Arab lineage can only be black.  Check out www.savethetruearabs.com for more information on that. If you can read Arabic I'll post some more things. Although I've posted a bunch at the topic 'Nation of Islam for white people.' Only the dishonest can deny this stuff when they see it with their own eyes in the Arabic. It is in plain text. I'll say it again. they were black. From dark brown, to tar black. And most of them had bushy/kinky hair. These are just the facts. Truth and history. And it flies in the face of the lies that most of us have been taught and believe. That is why we must know it and accept it. If this causes problems for you then .  . . Something is wrong with you.

Godbless,
Anwar
The Quranists Must Rise!

http://www.quranists.com

san

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2010, 11:54:11 PM »
With enough evidence, i won't have any trouble accepting that the earliest/original Arabs are closer to the African race than anything else. My question: Is there even a single ancestor of humans named "Adam"? The more you see different people of this Earth the more you'd realize the possibility of pluralism in the origin of humans.

The site you mentioned, progod, says something about the black mud, that "Adam" (as a single persona) was created from black mud, and consequently, was 'black' (always a strange notion for anyone with any sensitivity towards colors). I don't see anything there that narrates Adam as anything other than the human being created/fashioned by Allah, similar to the quranic/bibilical story and so on, so i'll assume "Adam" is claimed by the author(s) as the first human being as well.

Now, can you explain how a man similar to a modern African man "changed" into all the human races we know today (in any period of time imaginable)? Did migration to the icy north pole turned his theoretical 'descendants' into Caucasians or Mongoloids? Did migration to the east turn them into Polynesians? Or did Ice Age? Or did radiation from past civilizations' nuclear war? Mutation? Or did our ancestors practice conscious transfiguration? Series of plastic surgery? How about the last few millennia? How about the last few decades? Haven't you witnessed how amalgamation have naturally produced new kind of 'breeds' just in a single generation? Please exercise similar questions for every claim that there was a single human arch-ancestor of any race.

Save the true Arabs, okay, that's a noble cause. But what that has got to do with "race"? Isn't the fact that they're human already enough to justify the cause?


::: i realized my post maybe quite off-topic, but i'm still having trouble understanding your motive (or that website's motive), so i'll let it as it is...


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Halil

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2011, 04:59:24 AM »
I think its important to determine whether arabs originally were black or not and i appreciate the effort people put into such research. In no way do i see that it would suggest to some shady alterior motives.

Just think about Jesus and how he is portrayed today. Think about how the ancient egyptians are portayed. I am pretty certain also that Muhammad is imagined by most as being white and that the concept of him being black would arouse something in the way of discontent.

I remember once someone talking about a black kid in Iraq who was constantly bullied at school and being called "abd" (slave). The whole issue was about how even in arab lands being black was subject to rasism.

Everything is allways attempted to be portrayed in a white-centric manner with racial accuracy being a distant second or less. The problem is not that people involved in studying history in a racially accurate manner are somehow disregarding the great "humanity's oneness", but that most others are so inclined to the concept of the "whiteness" in all matters of importance.


With enough evidence, i won't have any trouble accepting that the earliest/original Arabs are closer to the African race than anything else. My question: Is there even a single ancestor of humans named "Adam"? The more you see different people of this Earth the more you'd realize the possibility of pluralism in the origin of humans.
There is a leading theory that, through a specific unchanging part in the Y-chromosome, one can trace the paternal ancestry of men. This study has besides identifying Genghis Khan as the common ancestor for almost 8% of the worlds male populaiton, also laid out solid evidence for that all the worlds males are descendants of one single man. This where every single male in the world share a common type of a certain characteristic part in the Y-chromosome. I remember hearing of this for the first time through this documentary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV6A8oGtPc4

There is also a feminine counterpart to this theory but i havent looked into much information on it yet. Here are two wiki links to both of them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam

Now, can you explain how a man similar to a modern African man "changed" into all the human races we know today (in any period of time imaginable)?
Its very easy for a dramatic change in skin colour to occur. The change being especially apparent for blacks. Its called albinism or for us more familiar by the name "albino". I dont know however if this can have an impact of any sort in the skin colour of the offspring.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/real_life/article2017493.ece
God is the light of all on high and all on earth. An example of His light is like a niche that contains a lamp, that lamp being in a certain kind of glass. And it is as if that glass were a brilliant star, lit from some blessed olive tree, neither western nor eastern. The oil of that tree will almost shine without being touched by any flame.  He is a light above any light, and guides to His light whoever wants it and whomever He wishes to bring to it. God gives metaphors for the benefit of people and is discerning of all things.

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SarahY

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2011, 06:34:31 AM »
Anwar

In future could you please shorten your paragraphs, it makes it easier to read :)

anyway the post I made was just to share info but you didn't manage to read between the lines. let me clarify, if Persians can "fake" being an Arab and get away with it, their colour would be similar to Arabs (at least some of them). so if you can prove Persians being Black/brown-like then i'd say you may have a strong argument.

Also who are the "true arabs" today ?

You might have read info about it but it's not exactly a topic i dearly need to dwell into because it's not benefiting me what colour they were.

I know they were dark skinned (i'm not sure who argues against that?) i've read poetry of black vs blue. arabs being black and blue others; ignaz has one of those poems in his book.

Halil

it seems racism is a common trend in many cultures. even amongst the darker skinned you'd see people who prefer the "lighter" dark skin.


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san

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2011, 09:31:50 AM »
There is a leading theory that, through a specific unchanging part in the Y-chromosome, one can trace the paternal ancestry of men. This study has besides identifying Genghis Khan as the common ancestor for almost 8% of the worlds male populaiton, also laid out solid evidence for that all the worlds males are descendants of one single man. This where every single male in the world share a common type of a certain characteristic part in the Y-chromosome. I remember hearing of this for the first time through this documentary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV6A8oGtPc4

I'm not sure about that anymore. The simulations used to prove/give evidence, are they free from 'assumptions'? It is an approached model, even if it's agreed to be the 'closest'. It's by no mean an end all be all, but rather part of an ongoing research. On the other side, there are recent findings (2010 i think) where it's said that Neanderthals are far more intelligent than what we thought before. I mean, what if the "modern man" was not limited to just Homo sapiens? (funny to say 'modern' which means 'now', especially if you're not holding on to the evolution theory). There's also very fresh news from Israel, claiming 400,000 years old 'modern man' fossils that could challenge the Out-of-Africa theory, but of course it's too early to say anything about. It's all very interesting though.

And re: "Muhammad is imagined by most as being white", yes, i can personally confirm that it's the case at least here where i live. It's the image i've been reading in hadiths and sirah/biography books... Maybe challenging his white-ness would invite the same reaction as claiming the ugliness of Joseph... :/


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Its very easy for a dramatic change in skin colour to occur. The change being especially apparent for blacks. Its called albinism or for us more familiar by the name "albino". I dont know however if this can have an impact of any sort in the skin colour of the offspring.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/real_life/article2017493.ece

Thanks for that link. Some of the content make me sick though... :/ reminds me of the song "Spider Web" If it's a black man's racism, is it okay?... It's actually not racism... all that just for being born different! And i guess irrational ideas/fears played a role in that.

Regarding ancestry, however, albinism wouldn't explain the change of the other features/characteristics, would it?


True Love waits forever -- some just choose to fall in love sooner than some others. And the rest is by the way... nothing.

Halil

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2011, 10:09:54 AM »
I'm not sure about that anymore. The simulations used to prove/give evidence, are they free from 'assumptions'? It is an approached model, even if it's agreed to be the 'closest'. It's by no mean an end all be all, but rather part of an ongoing research. On the other side, there are recent findings (2010 i think) where it's said that Neanderthals are far more intelligent than what we thought before. I mean, what if the "modern man" was not limited to just Homo sapiens? (funny to say 'modern' which means 'now', especially if you're not holding on to the evolution theory). There's also very fresh news from Israel, claiming 400,000 years old 'modern man' fossils that could challenge the Out-of-Africa theory, but of course it's too early to say anything about. It's all very interesting though.
Of course, youre right about that. Science to this day has at its best never been better than a practically applicable approximation. However we as believers have the Quran to guide us on the general direction on issues that can be found mentioned in it.

Regarding ancestry, however, albinism wouldn't explain the change of the other features/characteristics, would it?
If albinism were to make an impact on the offspring it would surely only be on the skin tone. I dont know however if it even does that. Still could be interesting to keep it in mind. I dont know what other variations that can generally occur.

As much as ive been able to understand and make my mind upon sofar however, i do believe that there is a "leap" that can happen in the change of the offspring, not by random mutation but by inention, either designed so in the basic structure or by later intervention.

049.013 O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of God is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).
God is the light of all on high and all on earth. An example of His light is like a niche that contains a lamp, that lamp being in a certain kind of glass. And it is as if that glass were a brilliant star, lit from some blessed olive tree, neither western nor eastern. The oil of that tree will almost shine without being touched by any flame.  He is a light above any light, and guides to His light whoever wants it and whomever He wishes to bring to it. God gives metaphors for the benefit of people and is discerning of all things.

Quran - 24:35

progod

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2011, 02:50:33 PM »
Peace,

Sarah, not to be rude, but I don't need to shorten my paragraphs. You can still read what I have to say if you take your time. Sometimes I use paraghraphs sometimes I don't. But does that really matter? To address your questions:

I stated in my previous post:
Quote
"There was so much mixing with Persians, Levantine Byzantines, Levantine Greco-Romans, Armenians, Kurds, Slavs and Turks that this becoming an Arab without anyone making a big deal of it became possible (and there are tons of names for all the different sorts of mixtures and who in your family was an Arab or a non-Arab), although it was known (before colonialism) that the purer Arabs remained black."


Also Ignaz like many Orientalists (especially modern ones) don't have a clue about what old Arabic poetry says especially when it comes to colors. Either that or they intentionally hide the truth which European scholars are infamous for doing. The below will answer the question about blue and black Arabs, which Ignaz has hidden from his readers. This was included in my first post, which it seems you did not read thoroughly (it seems you didn't read my second post thoroughly either):

Quote
Nineth century poet Abu Al-Hasan Ali ibn Al-Abbas ibn Jurayj, known as Ibn Al-Rumi, wrote a long poem to the Abbasids blaming them for the way that they treated the family of the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS). It should be understood that at that time, the Abbasids had become very mixed with the Romans, Greeks, and Persians. Here is part of what Ibn Al-Rumi said in his famous poem called Al-Jeemia:


"You insulted them (the family of the Prophet Mohamed) because of their blackness while there are still pure-blooded black-skinned Arabs. However, you are blue- the Romans have embellished your faces with their color."

What does blue mean here in Classical Arabic? Lisanul-Arab says:

ابن سيده: الزُّرْقة البياض حيثما كان، والزُّرْقة: خضرة في سواد العين، وقيل: هو أَن يتغشَّى سوادَها بياضٌ،

"According to Ibn Sayyidah: Blueness is fairness/whiteness wherever it may be. And Blueness is a (tint) of green in the blackness/darkness of one's eye. It is said: It's when the darkness/blackness of the eye is overpowered by fairness/whiteness."

So blue in Arabic (in addition to red) means fairness/whiteness, and when it comes to the eyes, when fairness overpowers the darkness in one's eye. This can also be applied to fairness in skin tone as well. The quote of poetry above uses the term blue like the definition of eye color given in Lisanul-Arab. He clearly says that it is the prominence of Roman/Byzantyne blood which made many Arabs quite fair-skinned compared to the much blacker/deep browner skin-tone of the purer Arabs. During that time those who claimed relation to the last prophet (sas) had maintained their Arab lineage much purer than other Arabs.


If you are not going to read my posts thoroughly and then pose questions which would have been answered had you read all of my post, and on top of that rely on dishonest European orientalist scholarship over accurate sources which are cited for you and which I have given you sources for then please do not bother to respond to this post, as you will argue the contrary no matter what, because of some prejudice or bias you have, either against me or the topic at hand.

Halil,

Thanks for speaking the truth and seeing this truth for what it is. Also thanks for providing that interesting DNA info.

Godbless,
Anwar
The Quranists Must Rise!

http://www.quranists.com

SarahY

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2011, 05:18:48 PM »
Peace

I read your post and i'm not trying to be rude. it 'doesn't really matter' but it makes the text more readable/enjoyable.

you'e entitled to your beliefs. did you read Ignaz's book? because he pretty much implies what you do in regards to "blue" and "black" and no i'm not relying on dishonesty. just sharing thought.

you claim i'm not reading thoroughly and that you answered the questions.. well in actual fact you didnt and you should pay closer attention to your reading. I only asked 3 questions, 2 being rhetorical and one answerable question which was left unanswered "who are the true Arabs today?".  I assume based on your abundance of knowledge you'd know the answer

salam



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Follow your heart but take your brain with you.
ambiguity is there for a reason, why do you think?
We're all different, so how can we all be equal?

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2011, 05:53:52 PM »
To think that the immigrants are the original people and always have been is to believe something false which can lead to respect not being given where it should be.

This is pretty much the problem I'm having with your posts.  Although I'm all for raising awareness that Ancient Arabs used to look different to what we would understand as modern Arabs, your agenda of giving 'respect' is misplaced.  The agenda should not be to give respect to black people for being the 'original Arabs' (which is a false concept, which I will come to later) but to ensure all people of this planet are given due respect.  The ultimate goal should be for everyone to become colour-blind.  We should not look at white people and think 'oh they're not original Americans', nor should anyone look at black people and say 'he's not an indigenous Swede' etc.  We all belong everywhere and nowhere.

The point is, all lands were, and will continue to be populated by immigrants.  Black people didn't magically appear on the Arab peninsula, they must have migrated from somewhere.  So what does it matter that they happened to populate a bit of land first? It in no way makes them 'original' anything because this Earth belongs to Allah.  He willed that the first people to populate the Americas were brown people, and He willed that it would later be populated predominantly by white people.  There are no originals, because they were all human.


Quote
Many false things have been stated about Arabs (and I have heard them with my own ears and read them with my own eyes) and have been passed off and believed as fact when they are pure ignorance and lies.


Again, if this is your goal then I support you.  But I'm getting mixed messages from what you're posting.
"There is one thing in this world which must never be forgotten. If you were to forget everything else, but this one thing, then you may have no fear; but were you to remember to do every single thing, but forget that one thing, then you would have done nothing at all."  - Jalal Uddin Rumi

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progod

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2011, 06:56:21 PM »
Your queston on who are the true Arabs today can somewhat be answered in the title of this topic. If they claim to be Arab for as far back as they know, they live in and hail from Arab lands and they are black, then they are the closest thing you will get to an original Arab. They are the most original Arabs, the most aborignal Arabs of anyone who calls himself an Arab. The blood that runs through their veins is PREDOMINANTLY ARAB. However if the person is fair and has straight hair or even colored eyes and colored hair, than that person is as far as you can get from an original Arab. They are very UN-ORIGINAL or NON-ABORIGINAL Arabs and are the ancestors of arabicized foreigners and this sort of blood is the predominant blood that runs in their veins. In some countries like those of North Africa, Egypt and the Sudan this may get trickier.  Because in these lands black Arabs mixed with black egyptians, black berbers and black nubians in the Sudan. However, you will be suprised that most in North Africa and the Sudan know if they are Arab or berber or other. What they may not know is if they are berberized or arabicized foreigners. As many light skinned Arabs don't know. Although some of them do know that they come from persia or have mostly persian blood. If they are black and they claim to be fully Arab than there is no reason NOT to believe them, thinking that they come from Africa or from African slaves. The blood of these black Arabs is most pure on the Arabian peninsula i.e. Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, Qatar, Bahrain, southern Iraq, and Jordan. And here many know their family lineages very well. However, they can also be found in those lands not originally part of the land of the Arabs, i.e:  Syria, Lebanon, upper Jordan, Egypt, Sudan and North Africa in much smaller numbers.

Godbless,
Anwar
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http://www.quranists.com

san

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2011, 03:38:31 PM »
Of course, youre right about that. Science to this day has at its best never been better than a practically applicable approximation. However we as believers have the Quran to guide us on the general direction on issues that can be found mentioned in it.

[...]

049.013 O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of God is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

Strange finding here. The translation you used, it's Yusuf Ali, right? There is actually no word that corresponds to "single (pair)" in the Arabic script. Then I checked the occurrences of dhakarin (you can see here, Ctrl+F search for "dhakarin" and there you go). Please notice the similar "min dhakarin aw/wa untsa" in all of the occurences.

See the pattern? Right, in four of the occurrences, it's not translated as a singular noun object in the sense of one, specific male or one specific female ("a male" or "a female") but rather, simply to denominate human gender, as in "...of male or female...". In the verse 49:13, suddenly the same "min" preposition popped out as "from" which, in English, could definitely be taken as denoting origin. Furthermore, the terms dhakarin and untsa each receives noun-number "a" and as such, appear as explicitly singular noun objects).

Let's try a little exercise for consistency, using the format that fits the other four verses:

49:13 O mankind! Indeed, We created you of male and female and We made you nations and tribes that you may know one another. [...]

male and female (human gender), nations and tribes (groups of humans)

Implied is difference (so "that you may know one another")

So, in my view, using that verse in support for the single-pair human origin theory is very questionable. On the other hand, it may also show us how a preconception could lead us to bias in our reasoning. The reasoning used in the translating of AQ apparently isn't free of such bias.

In this specific case, however, it's very easy to test which side of consistency is the more likely to be true. You can reverse what i did above and make the other four occurrences to follow the format that is popularly-accepted with 49:13 (which would be, in those verses, "...from a male or a female..." with the "from" preposition intended to explicitly denote an origin, and "a" denotes noun-number). What do you make of that?



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progod

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2011, 07:06:03 PM »
San,

What's up with this comment?

 
Quote
"Muhammad is imagined by most as being white", yes, i can personally confirm that it's the case at least here where i live. It's the image i've been reading in hadiths and sirah/biography books... Maybe challenging his white-ness would invite the same reaction as claiming the ugliness of Joseph... :/

The Qurans says Joseph was beautiful.

I wish people would actually visit the sources where I pull this stuff from. I figure if you (not just you San) find the topic interesting that you would check out the sources. I'll just sum it up though. If you are interested in truth you will do your own digging and check the sources.

Abyad in ancient Arabic meant a few things: fair, white, luminous, brilliant, clear.
Azhar in Arabic means: a beautiful tone/the best tone (not white or pink tone).
When describing the fairness of people two terms were used: Ahmar (red) and Azraq (blue).
Persians, Turks, Byzantines, Greeks and slaves were called red (al-humr, al-ahaamirah and al-hamraa'u).
Many Arabs in the old Arabic literature are described as both dark brown and abyad. Abyad here means luminous.
There is even an expression in Arabic 'wajhuka abyad' which does not mean 'you are white.' It means you are radiant, luminous, brilliant. The lexicons state that Arabs preferred to say Red for fair/white people and preferred aybad to comment on the character of a person.
It has also been explained in old Arabic lexicons that when the Arabs used 'abyad' for each other as a skin tone they also mean 'wheat brown' or
a person that is black with a light undertone. I.e. light black/brown tones.

Ahmar is the preferred term for white skin as we know it. Also ashqar. Azraq was also used to define 'white' and especially folks whom it was known were fair because they mixed with red (white) people.

There are hadeeth that say that the prophet was white, as in luminous. There two in particular that would seem to contradict each other. One says that the prophet was Asmar (very brown skinned) and the other says he was Abyad bihumrah (fair with hints of whiteness). So this would be more like a dark Europeans tone, dark olive-skinned or high-yellow (which includes dark skinned tones of persians and Mediterraneans). Both hadeeth are of equal strength. One scholar explains it away by saying that under his clothes he was olive skinned/high yellow but where he was exposed to the sun he was very brown skinned. But when you read that someone is 'white' in old Arabic texts, you cannot understand it as white unless it is specifically talking about non-Arabs or it says Red or Blue. For example there is one hadeeth that says the prophet's neck was white like silver! Nobody's skin is white like silver. The meaning here is luminous. And neck seems to have a deeper meaning here, unless it just means shiny.

Wierd? That's only the beginning. Green and yellow also meant aswad (black) or asmar (all shades of very brown skin). Yellow being only connected to the term aswad. Asmar can be broken up into tones. There is general asmar but then there are two darker classes of asmar/sumrah being al-udmah (very deep chocolate) and and as-suhmah(coal/tar black), or al-ismihaan(coal/tar black). Sawaad or blackness seems to have two definitions. Asmar or literally as-suhmah/al-ishmihaan.

You can find all of these defintions and discussion of these terms at www.savethetruearabs.com or in lisaanul-arab. Basically all of these hadeeth have been mistranslated. There is the famous hadeeth about Moses (God bless him) when the last prophet (God bless him too) went  into heaven. The Arabic literally describes him as tawaalun aadamu ashamu with straight hair like the tribe of shanuah. Most translations of the hadeeth will leave out as-hamu (which means coal/tar black) and mistranslated aadamu as 'a man' instead of what it really means which is asumrah-ashadeedah i.e. very, dark/deep chocolate brown. Remember the one 'i was sent to the red and black people'. Red means 'white' and 'black' means asmar. all the tafsirs say that Ahmar means the persians and their likes and aswad means the arabs their likes. But that stuff is intentinally left out of the translations. It's a shame.

By the way aswad also has a meaning of ajallu, i.e. most majestic, most honorable.

Godbless,
Anwar
The Quranists Must Rise!

http://www.quranists.com

san

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2011, 10:25:47 PM »

No, progod, please don't get me wrong. Personally i'm fine with whatever skin Muhammad had, and actually i found this information you bring very interesting. What i meant by that comment is the irony regarding the common view that is held by Muslims here. And thank you for summarizing those parts, esp about the mistranslations.

These are all new information to me, and so i had to review these terms in Quran when i have enough time. I'm not sure what to say about Adam yet, but i already thought that it couldn't mean a single man as a single common ancestor for all the races of human on earth that exist today, hence my posts above. However this will also be in conflict with the popular Biblical version of the story, though that should be nothing surprising also. Yes, re: Moses being not 'Caucasian-like', i've already figured that it would fit the Quranic story better (just a tiny bit though: could that Arabic of Moses description be possibly translated as "dark-brown-skinned, with straight black hair"?), i.e. he had been interacting with the Israa'ilites (most possibily 'Caucasian-like') as a native Egyptian.

My mind is a bit overloaded right now with these and other stuff etc so please allow me to review this subject later...



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progod

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2011, 01:33:34 PM »
Peace,

As for Adam. I didn't discuss Adam as in Adam and Eve, just the term Adamu as a description of color. The word can be the name Adam or the descriptive term for al-umdatu, which is dark chocolate brown. I don't think the israelites were caucasian-like, as Moses (God bless him) was probably a typical ancient Israelite. Just goes to show that both the ancient Egyptians (definitely) and ancient israelites (most likely) were two different ethnicities of black people who could overlap in phenotypes and features (the bible has him taking an Ethiopian as his wife). That can be said for a lot of black ethnic groups, who generally look different but where you can find some overlap, some groups more than others. Anyway, I don't take hadeeth too seriously especially hadeeth like these (the description of Moses in a vision), but it is interesting that the hadeeth shows that many Arabs and even Persians believed that Moses was black, very black, and therefore other ancient Hebrews of his time. There are two hadeeth however that have Jesus (god bless him) as ahmar, or white (a color associated with Persians and levantines during the prophet's day) but with bushy/kinky hair. Another says that he had straight hair (implying that the Arabs/Persians believed that the Hebrews mixed heavily with white people, possibly Greco-Romans, Perisans and others). The version with straight hair is recorded as being doubtful by older scholars. The hadeeth about Moses also shows that the Arab tribe of Shanuwah was a black tribe with straight hair when the hadeeth was recorded. Aadmu like I said, is described a dark/very asmar, or dark chocolate.
As-hamu means black like the Dinka and other southern sudanese tribes, black like coal or bitumen.

As for Adam being the father of all mankind. I take Adam to be the name of the tribe of humanity. Like Shanuwah or Quraysh. There is Quraish as the whole tribe and banoo Quraish as all of the members of that tribe. You find this in the Quran with Isra'il. Both Isra'il and Banoo Isra'il are mentioned referriing to the same people. Hence I take both Adam and Banoo Adam to be referring to the same people. As for Adam being black, well all people aren't black. Perhaps this is their origin, perhaps the Arabs or whoever first used the term Adam used this term in general for people because most people were this color. There is another example of this with sawaad, i.e. blackness. Sawaadun-naas means 'the majority of people'  or 'the masses' in Arabic. Perhaps this is the origin of the word but Adam (in addition to 'dark chocolate brown) as far as I understand means humanity.

As for Adam being created from black mud. Even if we consider that Adam was the first man (which I don't believe), if being created from black mud automatically makes you black, doesn't it also make your bones, flesh and blood black too? See the lack of logic in assuming that because one is made from black mud that that makes one's skin color black?

Godbless,
Anwar
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shadowpuppet

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2011, 05:40:02 PM »
Did you know that most of the original slaves in America were white Irish and not black?
And that most African slaves were sold by their own kings?

It's not a question of colour. It's a question of humanity.

I understand your beef but I certainly have no intention to sit and feel that I have some sort of "impurity" because I am not black skinned. Not in an Islamic forum. That's brain fuck is what that is.

progod

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2011, 07:17:15 PM »
If you thought that the intent of my post was to make you feel like you have some sort of "impurity" then you are waaay wrong. Where did you even read that in my post? The point of this post was to spread knowledge and dispel common misinformation about aboriginal/true Arabs and what they looked like and to establish the truth of their blackness.

As for West African slavery I am quite informed about it, although this was not the point of this topic. I know that Africans supplied to Europeans as slave labor were sold to Europeans by expanding African empires from Dahomey and Togo to Congo/Kikongo empires. These were some of the worst offenders. But if we are going to talk about slavery let's remember that there is a difference between the existence of slavery and how slaves are treated or when certain ethnicities or races are institutionalized into slavery and designated as slaves automatically. Then it becomes a wrong compounded onto another wrong and has lasting effects. Not to mention that although this was pretty severe, the more damaging aspects of racial oppression in the US was during Jim Crow in the south as well as the racialized laws employed both in the south and the north.

As for the Irish being the original slaves in America, that is rubbish. The whole concept of indentured servitude however was a form of slavery and was abused constantly in order to keep other Europeans in their servitude/slavery. However, let's remember that Western Slavery was not just in British colonies or in North America. The institutional enslavement of African peoples took place more in Central and South America than in North America, although with different methods of oppression. The phenomena of indentured servitude of Europeans has not been really investigated in Central and South America, although the enslavement of Native Americans before the importation of African into Central and South America has been dealt with.

Anyway we can't deny the influence of Eurocentrism on education and the matrix of accepted ideas out there and its ideological influence in the world. The bogus ideas of aboriginal Arabs as white people, of ancient Egyptians as white people, and of aboriginal North Africans as white people are European concocted ideas that have taken root as accepted ideas even within the halls of academia. So this topic is not to make white people feel bad, but rather to learn and recognize the truths of these matters. If it causes you mental or psychological discomfort that is perhaps indicative of an issue that you must address and rectify.

Godbless,
Anwar
The Quranists Must Rise!

http://www.quranists.com

shadowpuppet

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2011, 07:57:01 PM »


"As for the Irish being the original slaves in America, that is rubbish."

You ever known an Irish person descended from slaves?

Your posts are no different than some damned storm trooper rant and I wouldn't insult myself by digging any further.
You simply smokescreen your hatred with a bunch of intellectual rhetoric, just like any other racist.
The fact that you are calm about it doesn't make you any less full of shit.

If you're going to sit and talk about whites, you'd better know what you're talking about.

Go ahead, let's hear it... let's hear about what great kings the blacks were.
Then let's hear about where a good lot of whites fit into that picture.

Tell the whole truth.

They fit in chains, you damned fool.
Why do you think half of them are so pissed?

shadowpuppet

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2011, 07:58:00 PM »
"True Arabs can only be black?"

Fuck you.
How's that for a reply?


progod

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2011, 05:57:27 AM »
Peace,

I hope the moderators are getting this and take necessary action. This sort of language is inappropriate and not necessary at all. "f you" is not even a pertinent reply. I discussed the issue of slavery of Europeans in North America which was abused indentured servitude. Not only Irish were subject to that but even poor British folks were routinely kidnapped and sold of in "indentured servitude" to the British colonies. Many scots Irish and poor Brits however immigrated willfully to the colonies and became virutal slaves when it came to the lives they had to live although they were not considered 'owned property' in any way. If you want to talk about when Moorish (berber and Arab) blacks unquranically and wrongly routinely took Europeans as slaves(and how this led to the lightening of north Africa and the Arab people) then we can. Anyway, as I said earlier this is the not very pertinent to this topic. I know you would like to consider me a racist. But let me state this clearly I don't hate or dislike anyone for the way God created them. All of God's creation is according to his most wise and great plan. Being racists against Europeans or their descendants or Africans and their descendants because of their physical form or the places from which they come is like being racist against a black cow, or a white cow or a brown cow or a brindled cow etc. etc. It's ridiculous. However we can dislike and must discuss injustices, ungodly, untruthful and negative aspects of each other's cultures and the "civilizations" we form a part of. That is necessary if we are to achieve knowledge and truth and to achieve a way of being, thought, beliefs and behavior that is godly and not based on the ignorance of our different clans, tribes, ethnicities and civilizations.

Godbless,
Anwar
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progod

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2011, 01:27:56 PM »
San,
 I want to apologize to you. I came off very agressive towards you and misunderstood your statement. Thank you for recognizing my point and I'm totally with you on the common misconception and how they may see it as calling the prophet ugly.

Mushu,

I also want to say that I agree with you totally. When I said give respect where respect is due, I just meant recognizing the truth of a matter and not believing in lies. No one needs to respect black Arabs per se as a group just for being black Arabs. What I meant, is not looking at them as if they are NOT aboriginal Arabs and the fairer ones are, when the darker ones are the more aboriginal Arabs.

In general, I read over my posts and found them quite forward to say the least. I was trying to get across a point but I didn't have to be so aggressive about it. I apologize for that.

Godbless,
Anwar
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quincy

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2019, 10:34:03 AM »
Peace!

As a caucasian white i absolutely agree that the Ishmaelites were originally black just like the Israelites- the white genes are coming elsewhere- you need to know the scriptural Truth about the Flood and the Watchers and why Gog and Magog can only be the genes of the Nephellim - Neanderthals. White civilization came along with the white colonizers who arrogantly destroyed or enslaved the natives and now are exploiting them. The pale arabs like those from the house of saud are caucasoid khazarians.
THINK FOR YOURSELF

Lost

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2019, 11:44:41 PM »
Shut up if you don't know anything, that's the only thing you need to do really, I had a good laugh reading both of you Progod and Quincy hhahahaahhaahah

quincy

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2019, 01:56:39 PM »
What is this arrogancy you are showing towards people who think differently. You want to shut me up? Come to my place and try it, maybe you will be on the right track again after the beating. Dont tell people to shut up, you ignorant fool. My knowledge is based on sacred texts, books and the MOST HIGH. Whats yours? On some authoritative pseudo-scientific low-egos who think to know better while they are pathetic and compulsive liars- suckers of this $ystem? Like yourself? Maybe you did indeed evolve from a monkey based on your trust in modern "science". I AM THE SON OF ADAM WHO WAS CREATED GODLIKE FROM THE MOST HIGH! OK?! Go back to your government controlled indoctrination centers and dont bother me with your euro-centric bullshit.

Dont judge, if you dont want to be judged.
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quincy

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2019, 12:07:58 PM »
.
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Lost

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2019, 10:05:26 AM »
Wow, how silly can humans get ?!?! You have access to all the information youw ant yet you 're still stucked in mythology. Pseudo-science you say hahahahahahahahahaahha, look who's talking bro. Ishmaelites, Nephilim, you serious ???

This is not about thinking differently, this is about hard facts. Go learn population genetics and come back to me, I promise it will be helpful, nothing to do with the government lol. You can even have DNA tests yourself and many people can use your raw data to help you understand. I'll give you a good way to begin : start reading about uniparental lineages Y-DNA and mtDNA, Don't talk, just do it, didn' t mean to be rude, but this is seriously hilarious bro. What I can tell you for a fact is that the arabian peninsula was never settled by people of recent sub-saharan ancestry aka Blacks. The last contribution was from the islamic/arab slave trade, this is why you see many coastal Yemenis that are heavily negroid but you never see them in the highlands amon the real Yemenis. North Africans also were not black, this is proven by so many ways. Ancient Egyptians were not black, this was also confirmed from genrtic testing of ancient remains. This has nothing to do with euro-centrism bro, I'm myself north african and we're not white lol. We're an ancient mix, but there is genetic continuity in the Maghreb since the upper paleolithic with the Iberomaurusians from whom some remains were also tested. We're partly black though, around 15%...


quincy

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2019, 10:30:42 AM »
You are putting modern paradigms above the scriptures including the Qur'an - the Qur'an gives us hints about the Nephillim (Giants). The history of David fighting Goliath is also in the Qur'an - the middle east at that time was filled with Nephillim nations, thats why the Most High used the (true) children of israel to annihilate them because they had manipulated DNA. There are archeological findings of the remainings of Giants. You see in every Mythology the appearence of Giants or Titans. Hud and the 'Ad were all Giants, they were annihilated by the Most High (exceot Hud and those who repented) and there are archeological findings of their skeletons which are of course suppressed because it harms the agenda of the psychopaths reigning over you. The Flood happened because nearly the whole population had manipulated DNA - those Titans were extremely wicked and these genes were transmitted post flood through the maternal line.

Ive gone through your Posts and i see that you dont believe in the most the Qur'an states or you twist the meaning so it fits the modern paradigms which are in essence anti-God.

Read this if you dare - why do you think it was removed from the Bible canon by the Greco-Romans??? It also exposes their Pagan-Religions:

http://sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/index.htm
THINK FOR YOURSELF

عوني

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2019, 12:07:08 PM »
Wow, how silly can humans get ?!?! You have access to all the information youw ant yet you 're still stucked in mythology. Pseudo-science you say hahahahahahahahahaahha, look who's talking bro. Ishmaelites, Nephilim, you serious ???

This is not about thinking differently, this is about hard facts. Go learn population genetics and come back to me, I promise it will be helpful, nothing to do with the government lol. You can even have DNA tests yourself and many people can use your raw data to help you understand. I'll give you a good way to begin : start reading about uniparental lineages Y-DNA and mtDNA

The problem with both Y-DNA and mtDNA tests is that they do not take into consideration of say your great great great grandmother on your father's side or great great great grandfather on your mother's side so these DNA lineages don't really say much in the end.

Lost

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Re: True Arabs CAN ONLY BE BLACK!!
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2019, 01:47:58 AM »
The problem with both Y-DNA and mtDNA tests is that they do not take into consideration of say your great great great grandmother on your father's side or great great great grandfather on your mother's side so these DNA lineages don't really say much in the end.

It doesnt, that's true. But right here we're talking about population profiles, not individual ones. In this case, uniparental lines can give you a good picture of the overall ancestry of the population. Arabian populations that were not affected by the recent islamic slave trade have very few sub-saharan lines among them. Highland Yemenis for instance have almost none, whereas nearby Hadramis unsurprisingly have loads of them.

Or if you want to close the case, just look at the autosomal (complete ancestral) profile. It would yield the same results. These idiots are claiming that Arabians are black, what a load of bullcrap seriously. Even east african hamites can hardly be considered black lol, let alone ancetral Arabians.