Proof Holy Qur'an + "hadith" is Error!

[Alen]

As salamu alaykum,
with all due Respect, sisters and brothers.

I agree here with others, brother.
These images are from the people who are not following The Qur'an.
What you and I know - and others - is completely different. God Knows BEST.

I especially agree with brother Mushu.
I mean, these specific individuals not only exist all over the world, in every country.
In Slovenia, we have Zmago Jelincic, a "christian" (lip service) who is against muslims and building of the 1st mosque there.
In Croatia, they had a president who was prounouncing the word muslim wrongly on purpose.
In Bosnia they have people who call themselves chetniks and they openly hate muslims. (christian orthodox....not).
In Serbia they had a president who ended up in Hague EU jail for mass murderer, Slobodan Milosevic, he died hating muslims.
In UK we have certain people who truly hate muslims.

I mean, brothers and sisters, what I'm saying here is this: in every country, in every religion, on every continent, literary - on Earth: we have people who hate and people who love, this or that and whatever they think of. God Knows BEST.
This does not mean that chrsitian orthodox are bad people or that muslims are bad people or that Sloevenes are bad people just because one person from their line said something or did something that was against us.

An American wanted to burn a copy of The Qur'an. Does that mean that 300,000,000 Americans hate muslims? Old people? Pregnant women? Children? What about people in USA who accept Islam because they see something like ban the burqa in the news or they see a man who has never shaved in his life and this convert now wants to know where in The Qur'an does God order that or why and I think, I believe that we need to get together and start not only having more Quranic sessions, God willing, but we need to talk about this to at least one person a week about this, God willing.

One person who lives truly, really far away and has no access to info/intel like we do.

God knows BEST.
Glory be to God.
Peace.

[Ayisha]

I fully agree with everyone who has said 'this is not Islam' in one way or another and that the problems of the world, or Islamic world, are down to politics BUT the point I think harris was trying to make was that although WE may say this is not Islam and even many sunni would say this is not Islam, this IS what 'the western world' SEE as Islam. This is what is portrayed in the media everywhere and this is what CAN be picked out from hadith and even Quran in the verses referring to fighting. Those people in those pics ARE Muslims and they ARE doing these things and they ARE saying to MASSACRE anyone who insults Islam, so no freedom of speech, no freedom of thought for ANYONE. If this kind of thing carries on another say 50-100 years than this WILL BE ISLAM.

[Alen]

I fully agree with everyone who has said 'this is not Islam' in one way or another and that the problems of the world, or Islamic world, are down to politics BUT the point I think harris was trying to make was that although WE may say this is not Islam and even many sunni would say this is not Islam, this IS what 'the western world' SEE as Islam. This is what is portrayed in the media everywhere and this is what CAN be picked out from hadith and even Quran in the verses referring to fighting. Those people in those pics ARE Muslims and they ARE doing these things and they ARE saying to MASSACRE anyone who insults Islam, so no freedom of speech, no freedom of thought for ANYONE. If this kind of thing carries on another say 50-100 years than this WILL BE ISLAM.

As salamu alaykum,
with all due Respect.

I agree with you.
I see your point and I believe we must do something positive in order to stop this now and here and dgo the other way, the way towards The Real islam, to The True Teachings of The Qur'an and I mean right now. I mean like Now and Here.

Of course, I am just one person in London and there are few others but what can be done?

I am willing to help in a way to create Peace.
God knows BEST.



Peace.

[Badr]

As salamu alaykum,
with all due Respect.

I agree with you.
I see your point and I believe we must do something positive in order to stop this now and here and dgo the other way, the way towards The Real islam, to The True Teachings of The Qur'an and I mean right now. I mean like Now and Here.

Of course, I am just one person in London and there are few others but what can be done?

I am willing to help in a way to create Peace.
God knows BEST.



Peace.

The media love to show these images and theres thousands of muslims doing the right thing but the media will never portray them because they want to keep that image of islam and not the peaceful one.

[CavemanDoctor]

Harris,

In the future, please do not put gory images in your post.  I realize you put a general warning at the beginning but that is not enough.  Some users view these threads while at work, or around children, etc.  I edited your post to leave the url's but took the embedded images out.

[Alen]

The media love to show these images and theres thousands of muslims doing the right thing but the media will never portray them because they want to keep that image of islam and not the peaceful one.

As salamu alaykum,
with all due Respect.

Is it possible that the media in the Middle East is portraying positive image of muslims/Islam/The Qur'an and we're not seeing that? God knows Best.

Peace.

[harris]

Assalamalaikum,

peace to every believer and submitter. And may ALLAH guide the rest of us.

Glad to see so many varied responses regarding the snapshots that make up 'news' in the world media today. Many thanks to Aisha and Alen for their constant support. Apologies if some of the images were too gory for anybody here. But the truth remains, this is the "image" of Islam today, whether some of us would like to accept it or not.

That brings us to the question, who is responsible for this sorry state of affairs today? I see some brothers here quick to point out that this is 'propoganda'... i presume they mean by zionists... lol. wish that were the case.

Is the world media to blame for the following?
- the murderous hatred between shias and sunnis: For those living comfortably in the safety of western democracy, you've no idea about the situation still going on in ground zero. Everything from politics to economics is based on this great divide. Not to mention the hatred towards the ?kafirs?.

- the level of ignorance and backwardness in science and technology: Admit it, the west ie. christians and jews are light years ahead. why? because they provide an environment that promotes creative thinking through the rule of law and modern education. Even we educated muslims would not be here to discuss these issues if it were not for western education. Every modern scientific breakthrough from space travel to  touch screen phones and open heart surgery is a result of this (even the computer you are reading this from)



-the poverty levels in muslim nations: without oil from below the earth, how many muslim nations can be economically compared to the developed nations of the world? US, China and Japan are not the world?s biggest economies without reason.  They have worked hard to improve their quality of life.



http://www.submission.org/hadith/islamglowgloom.html

"I'll end by telling a story. There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world. It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climes to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins. One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands. Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities, and its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known.

And this civilization was driven more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers, and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body, and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration. Its writers created thousands of stories. Stories of courage, romance and magic.

When other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them, and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive, and passed it on to others. While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I'm talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent. (when muslims started living their lives by the HOLY QURAN)



In the beginning, Islam flourished because of its emphasis on "good in this world" (Koran-2:201). But the Mullah's came up with the sermon that no worldly improvement has God's blessings. This world is merely a temporary shelter for us for our onward journey to hereafter. All Muslims were encouraged to devote most of their times in madrasas and mosques for continuous prayer for pleasing God.(They started devoting their lives to understanding and living by the hadiths) Within a few generations, these self-defeating teachings in the name of Islam got deeply rooted in the Muslims' minds. While the Koranic verses describe God as "beneficent and merciful", the Mullahs perceived and portrayed God as an intolerant ruler even for slightest deviation in praising Him. A deep belief engulfed them that nothing could be achieved without the blessings of God.



They overemphasised the need for God's blessings in accomplishing things and de-emphasised the need for doing the things themselves. The virgin 'hooris' were perceived as the thrill in the Heaven than the thrill in invention for the good of all people. Gradually, a lethargic community that thrived on living behind the system grew up. And sadly this is the community of the Muslim ummah we see today.




End of story. Guess I've made my point crystal clear.

Peace to all. May we be guided in the right path. ALLAH knows best.

[Alen]

As salamu alaykum,
with all due Respect.

I agree with you, brother Harris and you're right but what can one do to get out of this state?
I know people who try to move from step 01 to step 02 and it takes them years and they're still on thep 01.
I would say that - I will speak for myself only - I must hold on to The Qur'an more and more, more strongly, I must follow it better and ponder even more, God willing.

Brother Harris, thanks for reminder.
The photos you have provided are thought-provoking and person starts to think.
God Bless you,
God Bless you all.

Peace.

[Faithful-Jinn]

Salam brothers and sisters

I agree that the Islamic world in the East and in Africa is in a state of poverty and ignorance right now.

But I do not believe the answer lies in saying that those who follow only the Qur'an practice true Islam or that Sunnis or Shias as collective ideologies are to blame. A Muslim is a Muslim whether they follow the hadith or not and I know there are millions of Muslims out there that are more faithful and pious than I.

We cannot say there is only one way to follow Islam. While I consider myself one who follows the Qur'an and do not feel obligated to put myself under the authority of hadith I do not believe there is not wisdom in some hadith nor do I think that the way I practice Islam is the exclusive interpretation. We as believers cannot claim a monopoly on true Islam. This is what many Sunnis have been doing for centuries they have attempted to monopolize the interpretation of the faith labeling all dissenters as kafirs. This is why Islam broke into originally and continues to split into sects because many people think their Islam is the only Islam.

What I also see is that many use Islam as a political and social tool to control the people. I believe the only way to get around this is to get away from this hierarchical form where the scholars and clerics have the right to tell the common people how to follow the Qur'an. While I don't see any problem with imams, ayatollahs, and whatnot giving opinions, a fatwa is not law, it is simply an opinion. And even we common people have the right to our own opinions. I don't believe it takes years of studying classical Arabic for someone to have the knowledge and authority to interpret the Qur'an for themselves. The thing about the Qur'an is it is universal and eternal and meant for all ages so why should I, a young American in the west, be forced to interpreting it like an 8th century man from the Arabian peninsula?

But I digress, I have no problem if someone wants to sport a kufa and a thobe. More power to them may God grant them grace because of it. The thing is though that we as Muslims should not be pointing fingers but joining hands and working toward our COMMON causes. Why in this day and age are people still hungry? Why are people still being persecuted because of their race, tribe, language, or faith? Why are people still being discriminated against on every continent for some reason or another? Whoever started this topic is right something has definitely gotta change why are young Muslim boys and girls around the world still illiterate and forced to work. Women aren't allowed to drive cars or go outside without a male family member. Young poor boys are joining militias being told they will go directly to heaven if they blow themselves up or fight against the Western infidels. Something has got to change.

The fact of the matter is though like someone else pointed our before is the change begins with ourselves. We can sit on our computers and talk all day about what should and shouldn't be done but the revolution will begin in our own personal lives. Be the change you want to see and pray that your light shines on others. I will continue to strive toward Truth, God forbid if I stray on the way there.

[Mushu]

But the truth remains, this is the "image" of Islam today, whether some of us would like to accept it or not.

That's not the image I have of Islam today.  Who's image is that?  Oh right, the image portrayed by the media, which you are projecting upon global "Islam".  That's not very clever, is it?

That brings us to the question, who is responsible for this sorry state of affairs today? I see some brothers here quick to point out that this is 'propoganda'... i presume they mean by zionists...

There's no need for presumptions, it was explicitly stated, at least by me.  The sorry state of affairs comes from politics, economics and regional conflicts.  Care to refute that?

Is the world media to blame for the following?
- the murderous hatred between shias and sunnis: For those living comfortably in the safety of western democracy, you've no idea about the situation still going on in ground zero. Everything from politics to economics is based on this great divide. Not to mention the hatred towards the ?kafirs?.

You haven't told us why they hate each other.  Before you do, take into account that the Kurds and the Sunnis are also killing each other, despite both being Sunnis.  Why is that?  No, the media is not to blame, but neither is the religion of these Iraqis.  If you know anything about history, you will know that the middle east was deliberately cut up by the British to keep people divided and in a perpetual state of conflict.  Who created the country known today as Iraq with its borders?

- the level of ignorance and backwardness in science and technology: Admit it, the west ie. christians and jews are light years ahead. why?

Because after they freed themselves from the grip of the Church they proceeded to butcher up the rest of the world in some form or other.  It's very easy to get a headstart in science and technology when you have plenty of wealth to feed your population by making other brown people subservient to you.  If you're suggesting that traditional Islam is to blame for the illiteracy and lack of technological advancements, perhaps you could explain why Muslims were so ahead of the game during the "golden era"?  How come Islam didn't stop their intellectualism and innovations back then? If you can answer that question, perhaps you will think again before blaming the religion of these people for their current misfortunes.

-the poverty levels in muslim nations: without oil from below the earth, how many muslim nations can be economically compared to the developed nations of the world? US, China and Japan are not the world?s biggest economies without reason.  They have worked hard to improve their quality of life.

Without having wiped out the natives, and built their economy using black people, would US be economically developed?  And there is plenty of poverty in China.

Again, your being utterly ignorant of wider geo-political factors to why muslim countries are the way they are.  Do some studying.

In the beginning, Islam flourished because of its emphasis on "good in this world" (Koran-2:201). But the Mullah's came up with the sermon that no worldly improvement has God's blessings. This world is merely a temporary shelter for us for our onward journey to hereafter. All Muslims were encouraged to devote most of their times in madrasas and mosques for continuous prayer for pleasing God.(They started devoting their lives to understanding and living by the hadiths) Within a few generations, these self-defeating teachings in the name of Islam got deeply rooted in the Muslims' minds. While the Koranic verses describe God as "beneficent and merciful", the Mullahs perceived and portrayed God as an intolerant ruler even for slightest deviation in praising Him. A deep belief engulfed them that nothing could be achieved without the blessings of God.

They overemphasised the need for God's blessings in accomplishing things and de-emphasised the need for doing the things themselves. The virgin 'hooris' were perceived as the thrill in the Heaven than the thrill in invention for the good of all people. Gradually, a lethargic community that thrived on living behind the system grew up. And sadly this is the community of the Muslim ummah we see today.

Bullshit.  Go do some research.  Islamic formalism started within 300 years of the Prophet's death, yet scientific and cultural innovations continued well into the Ottoman Empire.  People were blindly following madhabs from the time of Shafi'i, yet the ummah still produced the likes of Al Biruni and Ibn Rushd long after.  You inexplicably end your story at the time of the Ottomans but forget to mention the European invasions and the subsequent divide and conquer tactics, colonialism and rape of the muslim people.  Did that have anything to do with the condition of "Muslim ummah we see today"?

End of story. Guess I've made my point crystal clear.

Yea, that you're an idiot.

What your posts have demonstrated is that you are a sectarian.  What happened is that you came to this forum and figured that it would be a good idea to pat yourself on the back, congratulate yourself on being "quran alone" and post some stupidness in the form of painting traditional Islam as the "other" in the hope of getting a round of applause.  And yes, some people feel just like you and have a sectarian mindset and praised you for this display of ignorance.  But your waffling wouldn't have fooled everyone.

If you're serious about figuring out why the muslim countries are in such a state, I suggest you do some proper research.