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Is this Confession True ?

Started by truth.seeker, March 12, 2005, 06:16:50 PM

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truth.seeker

Salaam,

I happened to see this post in BAZM forum.

QuoteAlmost all renditions are based on the first ever explanation by Zoroastrian "Imam" Tabari's (d 310 Hijra - 300 years after the exalted prophet's death) in 30 huge volumes. He begins thus, "All my writing is based on what I heard from people. If the reader hates anything or finds weird in my history and tafsir, let him blame the narrators and not me."

Add to this "Imam" Razi and "Imam" Ibn Katheer. Razi wrote Tafsir Kabeer (The biggest tafseer - 300 volumes!). You might have read his confession on the forum:

Bazm Forum

Archives: Imam Razi's Horrible Confession!

Posted By: *Dr. Shabbir*
Date: Sunday, 6 February 2005, at 6:47 p.m.

CONFESSIONS OF IMAM RAZI OF TAFSIR-E-KABIR

Please think and reflect! Most certainly, these "Imams" are birds of the same flock?

Posted By: * DR. SHABBIR *
Date: Monday, 6 May 2002, at 7:03 p.m.

Most Muslims have heard of one of the most ancient and famous TAFSIR-E-KABIR (THE GREAT EXPOSITION OF THE QUR'AN) by Imam Razi. This tafsir is being followed by our Mullahs till this day.

After writing the 300 volumes the "great and authoritative Imam" confesses at the end:

"All my intellectual and logical statements and explanations of the Qur'an turned out to be lame. All the explanations of the Qur'an done by the so-called Imams [Tabari, Zamakhshari, Ibne Kathir, Bukhari etc.] are misleading and misguided. I and they all were the tools of the Satan. Our souls were polluted by our physical desires. Our efforts of this world promise to bring us nothing but torture and doom."

Reference: "Hadith-Ul-Qur'an" by Allama Inayatullah Khan Al-Mashriqi, 1954 edition page 190.


http://64.227.163.32/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl?read=28442

I tried searching on the net for some reference to it. Couldnt find links from a different source. Can somebody please verify..  

Regards,
Truth.Seeker

truth.seeker

Looks like nobody other than Dr.Shabbir has access to
Tafsir Kabeer.. :o


If what was mentioned in the last post was true.. dont u think it could be used to expose the hadithists?

-Truth.Seeker

Edip Yuksel

QuoteAfter writing the 300 volumes the "great and authoritative Imam" confesses at the end:

Whoever made this remark or beleived in this remark, even if he has DR. before his name, failed to think properly.

If the "great emam" wrote 300 volumes for 40 years of his adult life, he would have finished each volume of his tafseer, by handwriting, in less than two months. He could not even write so many volumes of children stories in his lifetime, considering the technological limitations of his era.

I do not believe that Razi demonstrated a miracle in writing those volumes. But I believe that the aouthor of the above-quoted statement has demonstrated a incredulous mind.

Peace,
Edip
Edip Yuksel, J.D.
www.yuksel.org
www.19.org
Each of us must use our own mind in pursuit of knowledge. (17:36; 10:100; 39:17-18; 41:53; 42:21; 6:114-116; 10:36; 12:111; 20:114; 21:7; 35:28; 38:29).

antibhondo

I don't know about the authenticity of the alleged confessions of other Imams, but I know specifically about that of Imam Razi, that this is quite a false accusation.

When I first heard about "IMAM RAZI'S HORRIBLE CONFESSION", I was startled. However, I decided to check out by myself the speech mentioned in the name of Imam Razi .

Dr. Shabbir Ahmed wrote:

///
After writing his 300 volumes, the great and authoritative Imam confesses: "All my intellectual and supposedly logical statements in the explanation of the Quran turned out to be lame. All the explanations of the Quran done by the so-called Imams (Tabari, Zamakhshari, Ibne Kathir, Bukhari, Muslim etc) are misguided and misleading. All of us were the tools of Satan. Our souls were polluted by our physical desires. All our endeavors and works of this world promise to bring upon us nothing but eternal humiliation, torture and doom.

?  (Hadith-Ul-Qur?an by Allama Inayatullah Khan Al-Mashriqi, 1954 edition p190)

///

Look at the reference. Let us check the reference.

You will get the original book, Hadith-Ul-Qur?an by Allama Inayatullah Khan Al-Mashriqi from this site:
http://www.aboutquran.com/ba/bio/InayatullahKhan/Inayatullah.Khan_HadisalQuran.pdf

I have uploaded the page-190, here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/45909041/Inayatullah-Hadithul-Quran-p190

You shall see:
Yes, there is a poem of Imam Razi mentioned by Allama Inayatullah Khan Al-Mashriqi in the mentioned page. Here is the poem:

نهاية إقدام العقول عقال ... وأكثر سعي العالمين ضلال
وأرواحنا في وحشة من جسومنا ... وحاصل دنيانا أذى ووبال
ولم نستفد من بحثنا طول عمرنا ... سوى أنم جمعنا فيه قيل وقالوا
ولم قد رأينا من رجال ودولة ... فبادوا جميعا مسرعين وزالوا
وكم من جبال قد علت شرفاتها ... رجال فزالوا والجبال جبال

This poem is very famous, and almost every write-up about Imam Razi contains the same. Even if you do some googling of any portion of the poem, you shall get many links containing articles or write-ups on the same.

I have got two translations of the poem in the internet. I mention those below:

1. The first one:
[link: http://www.thefullwiki.org/Fakhr_al-Din_al-Razi
however, you can get many other links for this particular translation. Copy a line of the translation  and paste the same in the Google search box. You know the rest what to do.]
    The daring of minds ends in shackles,
    Most of mankind's undertakings are folly.
    Our souls are indifferent to what our bodies do,
    And the sum of our lives is affliction and harm.
    We did not benefit from our lifelong search
    Except in collecting what these said, and those.
    Atop many a mountain men have triumphed
    And gone, while the mountains remained.
    How many men and states have we seen
    Goaded to disappear one and all.


I think that {{Atop many a mountain men have triumphed, And gone, while the mountains remained}} portion should be at the last.


2. The second one:
[http://books.google.com/books?id=Y7JInpQL0x8C&pg=PA381&lpg=PA381&dq=%22Our+souls+fear+our+bodies%22&source=bl&ots=kYWKq_92Rl&sig=BR6rW3FWR8ff_E7aq5RsyG_wVmk&hl=en&ei=AJUZTYDLJY3Angf8zcjHDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22Our%20souls%20fear%20our%20bodies%22&f=false]

Our souls fear our bodies as if they want to separate from them.
The result of our life in this world has been nothing but pain to others and sin.
For all the discussions and debates of our life We have derived no benefit but senseless noise.
How often have we seen men and kingdoms All perish quickly and cease to exist! How was their glory once more exalted than a mountain, Yet, men perish and the mountain remains the same!

________________________

Could you tell me how this piece of poem can be related to the speech alleged to be of Imam Razi's as mentioned in Dr. Shabbir's book? Or, how can the speech Dr. Shabbir derived can really logically be derived from the actual poem of Imam Razi? Or, how can the poem be treated as a confession?