Author Topic: The incorruptible mighty book  (Read 5438 times)

adjwi

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Re: The incorruptible mighty book
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2007, 07:46:59 AM »
Salam maxq,

I was able to enter the thread via :Members Profile, Riz, Latest Post of Riz, post# 85 found on page 6.

adjwi

warner

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Re: The incorruptible mighty book
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2007, 08:38:05 PM »
Peace be with you

Thanks for bringing this thread to the open again


Peace Ayman

[John of Damascus, De haeresibus, C/CI, 63-64 (pp. 486-487):]
 ??This, then, which they call "stone," is the head of Aphrodite, whom they used to worship and whom they call Chabar.?




The  above does not say the pagans call their temple ?Chabar? or ?Chobar? but that they refer to Aphrodite by this name. Aphrodite is probably Hellenized goddess Al-'Uzza the goddess of power. ?Chobar? I believe is the Greek/Latin mis-pronunciation for ?Kabir? which is to say ?Great?. As for John of Damascus the pagans probably refer to their pagan god Al Uzza as ?Great/Kabir?.


ayman

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Re: The incorruptible mighty book
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2007, 09:42:18 PM »
Peace Warner,

[John of Damascus, De haeresibus, C/CI, 63-64 (pp. 486-487):]
 ??This, then, which they call "stone," is the head of Aphrodite, whom they used to worship and whom they call Chabar.?

The  above does not say the pagans call their temple ?Chabar? or ?Chobar? but that they refer to Aphrodite by this name.

They refer to the stone by this name and the stone is a symbol of a fertility goddess who was hellenized as Aphrodite. Basically, the temple is this idol's temple.

You didn't quote the previous part about showering the stone with kisses. Of course, this is clearly refering to the black stone which the sectarians still shower with kisses to this day. We can see from putting all the evidence together that this stone is a symbol of the head of the re-born fertility goddess coming out of the vagina-shaped enclosure.

Aphrodite is probably Hellenized goddess Al-'Uzza the goddess of power.

It could be. However, it could also be the hellenized Allat who like Aphrodite was a fertility goddess. On the other hand, the name Al-Uzza suggests more a goddess of power as opposed to fertility. Keep in mind that those three godesses were often combined and reflected different aspect of a mother goddess. So their identification is not absolute but it depends on what was in vogue at the time.

?Chobar? I believe is the Greek/Latin mis-pronunciation for ?Kabir? which is to say ?Great?. As for John of Damascus the pagans probably refer to their pagan god Al Uzza as ?Great/Kabir?.

I disagree. The name John of Damascus is a Romanized name that he was given. He was in reality a Christian Arab whose name was Mansur (see Hoyland). Surely, as an Arab, he knew his own language and the pronunciation of words better than any later generation. His transliteration of the word must be taken as closer to the actual pronunciation at his time than our modern view of how the word should be pronounced. Keep in mind that Mansur predates the invention of Arabic vocalization marks by several generations. Moreover, the word "kabar/kabor" (which could have also been equally vocalized "kobar" and also mean "big/great") is a valid Classical Arabic word. It even appears in the great reading (40:35). So if it is a valid Classical Arabic word and it was transliterated by an Arab, then why come here hundreds of years later and claim that it was mis-pronounced?

Peace,

Ayman

tanveermd

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Re: The incorruptible mighty book
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2007, 04:38:54 PM »
Peace adjwi, maxq, all,

Here is the original thread:

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10220.0

hope4

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Re: The incorruptible mighty book
« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2010, 06:11:44 PM »
Selam

Just been reading this thread and the amount of information is mind blowing. I would like to read a translation of the Quran by Ayman one day, may Allah help him to achieve this.

Peace
Knowledge is understanding that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.

Wakas

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Re: The incorruptible mighty book
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2010, 08:33:13 AM »
peace all,

I just came across this, I haven't read it yet, thought it might be useful:

ARCHAEOLOGY AND THE HISTORY OF EARLY  ISLAM: THE FIRST SEVENTY YEARS
http://www.krc.ox.ac.uk/Publications/Jeremy%20Johns/Johns%202003(a).pdf

Also, Bro Ayman wrote a post on "how kaaba became a pagan idol" here.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org