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When is Ramadan according to the Quran? (no hadiths please)

Started by dumbbledoo, December 24, 2021, 11:33:20 AM

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dumbbledoo

Salam.

Here are the sources which have convinced me that the Quran does refer to the luni-solar calendar (not solar nor lunar):
https://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=10&verse=5#(10:5:1) <= Quran specifies that we should determine days and years with SOLAR AND LUNAR
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609543.0 <= Slightly skeptical about the two free-minds articles and I'll explain below why
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607570.10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdUFIL-swwo
https://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=185#(2:185:17) <= Quran doesn't specify the month when we should fast
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSv3c1kawk5AQZoYybMGSKzTsPLHPaJa6LVd5WHmefBpld_Wi4RTKDIMxdoC7zUZu75RZegZMDkxntc/pub <= Luni-solar calendar

However, it is also worth considering that this verse states " اللَّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا" which, albeit I can't read arabic, translates to 12 months (according to most translation websites and corpus), and the luni-solar calendar is 13 months:
https://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=9&verse=36#(9:36:6)
I also don't quite understand the meaning behind the "four that are sacred" months, and I'm confused--does this verse indicate that there are 12 months in general or that Allah created everything within 12 months?

I think it's rather unfair that those in the arctic who'd want to be muslim would have to fast literally 24 hours if the lunar calendar is to be followed in reference to the solar calendar. It's also worth noting that, in reference to the 12 months, the solar calendar is 12 months and the lunar calendar is rather confusing but both are 12 months. Which could Allah be referring to?

I personally don't believe in hadiths, obviously respect those who do because to each to its own--religion is very personal. But according to the Quran, has Allah specified when exactly is ramadan? I gather from the verses that a month hasn't been specified and a specific type of calendar hasn't been specified but it has been mentioned that Allah created everything within 12 months and that we should determine dates by both the sun and moon. So frustrating and I really want to know--I wish I could read Arabic!

Historically, muslim nations (from King Solomon's, one of our prophet's, times) have also been using the lunisolar calendar (https://www.britannica.com/science/calendar/Ancient-and-religious-calendar-systems#ref313439).

Also, in reference to the free-minds forums that I'm skeptical about, Laylatul Qadr does not translate to Equinox night at all! I mean, the night (nox) part does, but other than that, decree doesn't. In all fairness, I'm not sure, because a lot of people on that thread who do speak Arabic clarified some details regarding root words in that they do believe it translates to equinox. But, equi means horse in Latin, and equinox comes from the latin root world aequal ! Those who speak Arabic, could you please confirm with me if Laylatul Qadr has any form of meaning that indicates EQUI(aequal)nox at all? I feel like that'd clarify a lot to me regarding Ramadan.

I'm very much inclined to believe that it is the lunisolar calendar, just because the Quran tells us to determine dates and years by both the sun and the moon. I'll most likely be fasting, according to this, in September. It's not for my ease, as I don't live in a cold country (matter-of-fact it'd be rather inconvenient as well due to the wonderful festive ramadan celebrations that'd be occurring around me during the months when people do normally fast), but I've just overtime come to believe that a lot of what I've believed regarding Islam doesn't match up with the Quran itself. Hence, if someone could provide some facts and actual translations with root words about Ramadan, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Thank you!

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all  :group:

@ dumbbledoo:  :welcome:

Regarding hadith, AQ contains hadith; it is the extra-Quranic hadith that have no place in the deen.

Have you considered the information in the following thread: https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0

39:18 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.

You are totally correct to not follow what you have no knowledge of.

17:36 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of; for the hearing, and eyesight, and mind-all these you are responsible for.

Many are tested in whether they will follow others or follow the Almighty. It is pleasing to see those that seek to follow the Almighty alone.

6:116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

29:2 Did the people think that they will be left to say: "We believe" without being put to the test?


May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.

:peace:

~Abdul-Hadi


Iyyaka

Quote from: dumbbledoo on December 24, 2021, 11:33:20 AM
Salam.

Here are the sources which have convinced me that the Quran does refer to the luni-solar calendar (not solar nor lunar):
https://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=10&verse=5#(10:5:1) <= Quran specifies that we should determine days and years with SOLAR AND LUNAR
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609543.0 <= Slightly skeptical about the two free-minds articles and I'll explain below why
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607570.10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdUFIL-swwo
https://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=185#(2:185:17) <= Quran doesn't specify the month when we should fast
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSv3c1kawk5AQZoYybMGSKzTsPLHPaJa6LVd5WHmefBpld_Wi4RTKDIMxdoC7zUZu75RZegZMDkxntc/pub <= Luni-solar calendar
Peace,
How do you take into account the verse 9:37 and the word "l-nasīu"?
Isn't it about the abolition of the luni-solar calendar (sorry if this subject is covered in one of your links)?
[url="https://reveniraucoran.fr/"]https://reveniraucoran.fr/[/url]

jkhan

Quote from: dumbbledoo on December 24, 2021, 11:33:20 AM
Salam.

Here are the sources which have convinced me that the Quran does refer to the luni-solar calendar (not solar nor lunar):
https://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=10&verse=5#(10:5:1) <= Quran specifies that we should determine days and years with SOLAR AND LUNAR
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609543.0 <= Slightly skeptical about the two free-minds articles and I'll explain below why
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607570.10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdUFIL-swwo
https://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=185#(2:185:17) <= Quran doesn't specify the month when we should fast
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSv3c1kawk5AQZoYybMGSKzTsPLHPaJa6LVd5WHmefBpld_Wi4RTKDIMxdoC7zUZu75RZegZMDkxntc/pub <= Luni-solar calendar

However, it is also worth considering that this verse states " اللَّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا" which, albeit I can't read arabic, translates to 12 months (according to most translation websites and corpus), and the luni-solar calendar is 13 months:
https://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=9&verse=36#(9:36:6)
I also don't quite understand the meaning behind the "four that are sacred" months, and I'm confused--does this verse indicate that there are 12 months in general or that Allah created everything within 12 months?

I think it's rather unfair that those in the arctic who'd want to be muslim would have to fast literally 24 hours if the lunar calendar is to be followed in reference to the solar calendar. It's also worth noting that, in reference to the 12 months, the solar calendar is 12 months and the lunar calendar is rather confusing but both are 12 months. Which could Allah be referring to?

I personally don't believe in hadiths, obviously respect those who do because to each to its own--religion is very personal. But according to the Quran, has Allah specified when exactly is ramadan? I gather from the verses that a month hasn't been specified and a specific type of calendar hasn't been specified but it has been mentioned that Allah created everything within 12 months and that we should determine dates by both the sun and moon. So frustrating and I really want to know--I wish I could read Arabic!

Historically, muslim nations (from King Solomon's, one of our prophet's, times) have also been using the lunisolar calendar (https://www.britannica.com/science/calendar/Ancient-and-religious-calendar-systems#ref313439).

Also, in reference to the free-minds forums that I'm skeptical about, Laylatul Qadr does not translate to Equinox night at all! I mean, the night (nox) part does, but other than that, decree doesn't. In all fairness, I'm not sure, because a lot of people on that thread who do speak Arabic clarified some details regarding root words in that they do believe it translates to equinox. But, equi means horse in Latin, and equinox comes from the latin root world aequal ! Those who speak Arabic, could you please confirm with me if Laylatul Qadr has any form of meaning that indicates EQUI(aequal)nox at all? I feel like that'd clarify a lot to me regarding Ramadan.

I'm very much inclined to believe that it is the lunisolar calendar, just because the Quran tells us to determine dates and years by both the sun and the moon. I'll most likely be fasting, according to this, in September. It's not for my ease, as I don't live in a cold country (matter-of-fact it'd be rather inconvenient as well due to the wonderful festive ramadan celebrations that'd be occurring around me during the months when people do normally fast), but I've just overtime come to believe that a lot of what I've believed regarding Islam doesn't match up with the Quran itself. Hence, if someone could provide some facts and actual translations with root words about Ramadan, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Thank you!

Perhaps search WHAT is Ramadan rather than wondering WHEN is Ramadan...

anyway..  Fasting is not mandatory to reach Janna...  But surely it will increase the faith to the level of muttaqun..  Do one has to fast every year certain number of days or a month.. I have no clue.. I have asked certain knowledgeable people in this forum Alsonread many articles.. But I prefer after all to fast three minimum days on hottest days of the year.. Certainly I did fast one month conventionally from my childhood up until 2019... Not anymore.. But still searching.. There is no Arabic months in Quran that for sure in my understanding..
Thank you.