Does God know whole of the future of the individual

[Halil]

Peace Imraan,

Will we ever be able to satisfy 17:36 in discussing this? Our reasoning will be going outside the realm of our human capabilities. We should then leave such discussions alone.

Verse 17:36 does not limit one from thinking and reasoning. The Quran as a whole actually encourages this, especially thinking and reasoning regarding the subject of God and his creation.

The way i understand the verse is that one should exercise caution so as to not take anything they know for granted or as absolute truth, that is, sort of apply critical thinking.

Once again, I would re-iterate that just because God CHOOSES to limit His knowledge concerning our decisions does not impede on His characteristic of being Omnipotent.

Being All Knowing, He knows that knowledge of all our decisions, renders our freedom of choice nothing but pie in the sky.

If we are to accept that we are playing out something that is in accordance with something we have already done, then this looks very much like a game to me. I don't think that God plays games. It would be something like a bookie accepting wagers on a race that has already being fixed

Freedom is not to be independant of what God knows of ones destiny. Rather it is that we are free to choose or not to choose God and be who we want to be. There is nothing that limits us from doing this if he were to know the outcome for it is we that make all these desicions, under God.

There is no reason for God to limit his own power and knowledge. He is supreme and ALL-Knowing in all things every time for all eternity. The omnipotence of God, i feel should be the center of all our reasoning.

If i right now were to ask God of whether i would attain salvation or not i am certain beyond all doubt that he would be able to give me the answer. If i were to ask him anything else that can be asked i am certain beyond all doubt that he would be able to give me the answer.

Anyway, maybe this is a discussion well left alone if we accept that it is beyond our comprehension.

Well, actually everything is beyond our full comprehension. Even what we choose to call science are only approximated models that we come up with to describe things at our level of understanding.

We can however not limit ourselves because of this. Abraham came to the conclusion of God by thinking and reasoning and for this God called him a friend. However limited it might be, our potential is well enough to have us appreciate Gods wonders, if we just put some thought to it.

[Stone]

I think that we are limited in free will
For example,someone who is blind want to bee a pilot.
But he cant.He is limited,he cant have a lot of free will...

[1CELOSTNOWFOUND]

Peace Halil,

You have certainly misunderstood my stance on 17:36. This verse itself encourages us to reason.

As for the remainder of your post, it promotes speculation in the sense that your certainty that God can give you an answer on your destiny is purely speculative. This assertion is made regarding something that none of us comprehend. Hence, imo, such an assertion does not comply with 17:36 by virtue of the fact that you are speaking of that which you do not know (which none of us know really). Anyway, I could be wrong.

Imraan

[Halil]

Peace Imraan,

This assertion is made regarding something that none of us comprehend. Hence, imo, such an assertion does not comply with 17:36 by virtue of the fact that you are speaking of that which you do not know (which none of us know really).

My bad on the misunderstandment of your view on the verse. But again, "speaking of that which you have no knowledge of" would not involve reasoning even if it is in a speculative manner, as is most if not all reasoning.
I would understand it more as if say, one would maybe assume that hadith is divine guidance but not sure and still adhere to them. Because than one has passed a certain line where it is no longer reasoning but something applied in practice as if it was truth with certainty.

Yes of course, what i propose is only speculation, as would be with anything by anyone. But speculation for the sake of reason and further understanding can only be beneficial. Hence my standing on that we should not stop reasoning on things beyond our comprehension. It would be to limit oneself inside boundries not set up by God.

I must say though, im keen on the concept of the unrestrained omnipotence of God. So i would actually like to find a verse in the Quran supporting this  , without me having go through certain lenghts interpreting it so of course.
Ill come back on this if i find anything in the Quran, God willing.

[Halil]

Peace to all of you,

Well i guess this topic has been cold for some time now but reading a certain verse just recently, reminded me of this discussion and that i would post if i found anything in the Quran supporting my view, which is that God knows our destiny aforetime.

057.022 No misfortune can happen on earth or in your souls but is recorded in a decree before We bring it into existence: That is truly easy for God:

057.023 In order that ye may not despair over matters that pass you by, nor exult over favours bestowed upon you. For God loveth not any vainglorious boaster,-

God knows best.

[OPF]

Physics has a perfect explanation for this.

Yes, ALLAH knows your entire past. He knows your entire SET of POSSIBLE futures. To expand, we have in physics this thing called a light cone.


ALLAH knows your future light cone and your past light cone. He could not have created the universe without knowing this because the concept of a light cone does not just apply to people but every single particle in the universe.

However, you can see the future is a cone that expands with time. However, you are a single point in time, and a complex surface in space (shown as observer). When you move in space, you trace out a path:



And thus does ALLAH know everything about everything.

Your world-path is essentially your "book" that will be presented to you on judgement day.

[Halil]

Hmmm... well its stimulating
Giving some thought and reading its wiki description though raises some questions for me on the validity of applying the theory on this subject.

The reason that the cones form is that the traces light leaves in space is dependant on time. Thus the further we move in the time-axis the larger the circle formed by the initial flash of light. And this only applies to a single event with a specific initial configuration and the effects of it in time-space.

We now have to consider an infite number of different configurations of the initial event E, say an infinite number of possible speeds to the light. Depending on the speed, ranging from zero to infinity and measured at a certain time T, say judgement day. Than the cone would form a 90 degree angle in relation to the plane perpendicular the the time-axis for the case of zero speed, resulting in a straight line. It would than form an angle of zero degrees for infinite speed where it effects all other events in time space instantaniously, resulting in a square of infite width and length and finite hight.

To depict the dependency on the property of the event we would need one more dimension, not including the extra one dimension required to depict the true three dimensional space.

Furthermore we need to consider an infinite number of configurations of other events scattered in time space that are or are not affected by our event E in question, each with its own infinite number of initial configurations. This would require quite some additional dimensions to depict.

Alright lets assume that we are able to depict all these dimensions required graphically and than also able to compute all possible reprecautions that can occur until the given time T being judgement day.
The question now is, of all these infite number of configurations set up. HOW do we know WHICH one of these is the one that WILL occur?
This is a question that no model can answer and truly the mystery of it only God knows.

I mean i know for instance that ill either end up in hell or in heaven. These are the two final reprecautions that can occur at time T out of all the infinite number of configurations. So although the whole thing simplifies into these two in the end, we still cannot know which one it will be. The denotion "we" not including God... of course .

Well i could just be all wrong about the model too of course .
For speeds above the speed of light for instance wed have to take into account relativistic effects and in that case the previous assumption of infinite speed would be incorrect. But the final question would still be the same. HOW do we know WHICH event WILL occur is an unknown variable that cannot be described. Not by us.

God knows best though

[OPF]

If you imagine yourself as a world-path then it transpires. If you move your hand to the left, you've chosen one path, you move it to the right, that's another. The reason we don't know which event will occur is because that's where free will comes into the picture.

In this universe everything is willed by ALLAH to happen. We share a small amount of ALLAH's will and we call it "free will" or "consciousness" as if we're the only things in the universe that have this property.

[Halil]

I really find the concept of free will quite amazing.

We have been created perfect to the point where theres no detail to really fine tune on the design aspect. The final part of the completion of our creation lies with ourselves and the choices we make freely, influencing who and what we eventually become.
A freedom which God has willed for us.

Our free will brings out the beaty in our faith. One where God never forced us in any way to seek closeness to him, but rather one where we at some point in our lives chose him because that is what we want, when really there is so much in this world opposite to it which we could have chosen.

This makes the masterful plan so much more elegant than if we had been created perfect in spirit.
I mean its one thing to worship if we were programmed to do it without any choice or freedom. That would render our soul void.
It is however a completely different story if we choose to worship through the essence of our free spirit. By free choice and all the things that we have at least begun to understand throughout our lives.

Praise be to God, its amazing  .
And the beaty of the reality of all things not evident to us due to our lack of truly grasping or having insight.
Especially nowdays more than ever we are to distrcated by too many things of no actual importance other than the illusion it conveys into our minds, to be able to have a full relationship to our creator.