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A personal view regarding salat

Started by yesuri2000, October 10, 2010, 02:25:41 PM

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yesuri2000

Peace Progressive

QuoteI, to my own surprise am starting to thing that the 2 salat theory is correct. HOWEVER, there is definitely a noon congregational prayer on Fridays (day of congregation - yam al juma).

QuoteToo bad that I don't think one is supposed to "pray" twice a day

The first one is a quote I have taken off you from another thread. The second one is what you responded to me after I stated you follow a two prayer system. Maybe you later changed your view and now you don't believe people need to pray twice a day or believe salat means prayer. So apologies if I missed that. Just wanted to show where I got the view that you follow a two prayer view.

One thing I would like to ask though. If people dont believe Salat means prayer, so do you therefore not pray at all?

I know that the prayers of today seem ritualised which is why I have changed the way I pray by shortening it and only saying verses which praise Allah and that I understand. After all my understanding from verse 4:43 is that we should not approach prayers until we know what we are saying.

Im just curious as to what others do.

5:69

progressive1993

Peace yesuri,

Quote from: yesuri2000 on October 24, 2010, 03:41:52 PM
The first one is a quote I have taken off you from another thread. The second one is what you responded to me after I stated you follow a two prayer system. Maybe you later changed your view and now you don't believe people need to pray twice a day or believe salat means prayer. So apologies if I missed that. Just wanted to show where I got the view that you follow a two prayer view.

I see. Yes, I have changed my view. I have stated though in this thread that "salat" is not "prayer" - a good look on your side, though  :D In fact, I have changed many of my many views on topics in The Quran over the time which I have been a member on this forum.

Quote from: yesuri2000 on October 24, 2010, 03:41:52 PM
One thing I would like to ask though. If people dont believe Salat means prayer, so do you therefore not pray at all?

My view is that "salat" means "bond", "embrace" "act of following closely", etc. and that the timed salat which the believers are to maintain/carry out is to be done through means of reading The Quran/following God's laws/remembering God. My view is similar to what is presented in the first link that I have posted in this thread.


Peace
10:41 If they deny you, say: "My works are for me, and your works are for you. You are innocent of what I do, and I am innocent of what you do."

Wakas

"salat" is actually quite an obvious thing in The Quran, but it is our pre-conceived notions that get in the way. One of my favourite examples of this is the following:
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601228.msg259718#msg259718


If you show anyone but a Muslim this verse, they will never say salat means prayer, and if they are observant, they will reason that salat is being contrasted to taking an idle narration that misleads. Now, ask them what could salat be?


Their answer might just be something quite remarkable...  :) Enjoy.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

miah01

I belive it only one salat but two time a day,i ask you that what we shoud do in salat fajar and salat isha accounding to quran?

Wakas

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

ayman

Quote from: kgwithnob on October 22, 2010, 04:16:36 PMCould you please explain the meanings of the verses 4:101,102, and 103, below? Please elaborate on the particular circumstance, which necessitated the revelation of those verses?

وَإِذَا ضَرَبۡتُمۡ فِى ٱلۡأَرۡضِ فَلَيۡسَ عَلَيۡكُمۡ جُنَاحٌ أَن تَقۡصُرُواْ مِنَ ٱلصَّلَوٰةِ إِنۡ خِفۡتُمۡ أَن يَفۡتِنَكُمُ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوٓاْ‌ۚ إِنَّ ٱلۡكَـٰفِرِينَ كَانُواْ لَكُمۡ عَدُوًّ۬ا مُّبِينً۬ا (١٠١) وَإِذَا كُنتَ فِيہِمۡ فَأَقَمۡتَ لَهُمُ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ فَلۡتَقُمۡ طَآٮِٕفَةٌ۬ مِّنۡہُم مَّعَكَ وَلۡيَأۡخُذُوٓاْ أَسۡلِحَتَہُمۡ فَإِذَا سَجَدُواْ فَلۡيَكُونُواْ مِن وَرَآٮِٕڪُمۡ وَلۡتَأۡتِ طَآٮِٕفَةٌ أُخۡرَىٰ لَمۡ يُصَلُّواْ فَلۡيُصَلُّواْ مَعَكَ وَلۡيَأۡخُذُواْ حِذۡرَهُمۡ وَأَسۡلِحَتَہُمۡ‌ۗ وَدَّ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ لَوۡ تَغۡفُلُونَ عَنۡ أَسۡلِحَتِكُمۡ وَأَمۡتِعَتِكُمۡ فَيَمِيلُونَ عَلَيۡڪُم مَّيۡلَةً۬ وَٲحِدَةً۬‌ۚ وَلَا جُنَاحَ عَلَيۡڪُمۡ إِن كَانَ بِكُمۡ أَذً۬ى مِّن مَّطَرٍ أَوۡ كُنتُم مَّرۡضَىٰٓ أَن تَضَعُوٓاْ أَسۡلِحَتَكُمۡ‌ۖ وَخُذُواْ حِذۡرَكُمۡ‌ۗ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ أَعَدَّ لِلۡكَـٰفِرِينَ عَذَابً۬ا مُّهِينً۬ا (١٠٢) فَإِذَا قَضَيۡتُمُ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ فَٱذۡڪُرُواْ ٱللَّهَ قِيَـٰمً۬ا وَقُعُودً۬ا وَعَلَىٰ جُنُوبِڪُمۡ‌ۚ فَإِذَا ٱطۡمَأۡنَنتُمۡ فَأَقِيمُواْ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ‌ۚ إِنَّ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ كَانَتۡ عَلَى ٱلۡمُؤۡمِنِينَ كِتَـٰبً۬ا مَّوۡقُوتً۬ا ( ١٠٣


The "sujud" above is the same as acknowledging that they heard and obeyed.

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ إِذَا قُمْتُمْ إِلَى الصَّلاةِ فاغْسِلُواْ وُجُوهَكُمْ وَأَيْدِيَكُمْ إِلَى الْمَرَافِقِ وَامْسَحُواْ بِرُؤُوسِكُمْ وَأَرْجُلَكُمْ إِلَى الْكَعْبَينِ وَإِن كُنتُمْ جُنُبًا فَاطَّهَّرُواْ وَإِن كُنتُم مَّرْضَى أَوْ عَلَى سَفَرٍ أَوْ جَاء أَحَدٌ مَّنكُم مِّنَ الْغَائِطِ أَوْ لاَمَسْتُمُ النِّسَاء فَلَمْ تَجِدُواْ مَاء فَتَيَمَّمُواْ صَعِيدًا طَيِّبًا فَامْسَحُواْ بِوُجُوهِكُمْ وَأَيْدِيكُم مِّنْهُ مَا يُرِيدُ اللّهُ لِيَجْعَلَ عَلَيْكُم مِّنْ حَرَجٍ وَلَـكِن يُرِيدُ لِيُطَهَّرَكُمْ وَلِيُتِمَّ نِعْمَتَهُ عَلَيْكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ
وَاذْكُرُواْ نِعْمَةَ اللّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ وَمِيثَاقَهُ الَّذِي وَاثَقَكُم بِهِ إِذْ قُلْتُمْ سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ إِنَّ اللّهَ عَلِيمٌ بِذَاتِ الصُّدُورِ


Now if you interpret "sujud" as physical prostration then is this how you do your physical prostration?

قُلْ آمِنُواْ بِهِ أَوْ لاَ تُؤْمِنُواْ إِنَّ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْعِلْمَ مِن قَبْلِهِ إِذَا يُتْلَى عَلَيْهِمْ يَخِرُّونَ لِلأَذْقَانِ سُجَّدًا


Peace,

Ayman
الإسلام من القرآن
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miah

salat two tome a day but it is not pray but only quranic education training etc class.

brook

Quote from: miah on October 27, 2010, 07:42:36 PM
salat two tome a day but it is not pray but only quranic education training etc class.

Salaam miah. I am convinced that the salaat in 4:102 can not be any education let alone quranic education because it is performed on the active war front, which is where the believers who perform it are warned by God to be on the alert and take precaution:

When thou (O Messenger) art with them, and standest to lead them in prayer, Let one party of them stand up (in prayer) with thee, Taking their arms with them:... - وَإِذَا كُنتَ فِيهِمْ فَأَقَمْتَ لَهُمُ الصَّلاَةَ فَلْتَقُمْ طَآئِفَةٌ مِّنْهُم مَّعَكَ وَلْيَأْخُذُواْ أَسْلِحَتَهُمْ .

Being on the active front during  a war is like being on a raft afloat the rising waves during a flood. It is in no way a place where you can take education. It is a place where you give your dear life if you do not concentrate and if you get involved in things like education to weaken your concentration.

Peace,
Hasan Ak?ay

brook

They are performing a ritual consisting of  1 (قام) kiyaam + 1 (سجد) sajdah in order to submit themselves to God for His mercy and moral help in combat.

What قام means here can be seen in verse 103: فاذا قضيتم الصلاة فاذكروا الله قياما وقعودا وعلي جنوبكم.

As for the question whether سجد is physical or verbal we have to take into account that it follows قام, which is physical for sure, and both are part of an activity of submission to God; and that activity is named salaat in verse 102. When one is physical there is no reason why the other will not be physical.

Peace,
Hasan Ak?ay

1CELOSTNOWFOUND

Peace Hassan

You wrote:
QuoteSalaam miah. I am convinced that the salaat in 4:102 can not be any education let alone quranic education because it is performed on the active war front, which is where the believers who perform it are warned by God to be on the alert and take precaution:

When thou (O Messenger) art with them, and standest to lead them in prayer, Let one party of them stand up (in prayer) with thee, Taking their arms with them:... - وَإِذَا كُنتَ فِيهِمْ فَأَقَمْتَ لَهُمُ الصَّلاَةَ فَلْتَقُمْ طَآئِفَةٌ مِّنْهُم مَّعَكَ وَلْيَأْخُذُواْ أَسْلِحَتَهُمْ .

Being on the active front during  a war is like being on a raft afloat the rising waves during a flood. It is in no way a place where you can take education. It is a place where you give your dear life if you do not concentrate and if you get involved in things like education to weaken your concentration.

While your assertion that it does not mean Quranic education may be correct, your reasons against this weaken your argument for ritual prayer.

Consider an army of ten thousand. If the rasool were to per form the ritual prayer with them in two sessions, this would be the ideal time for the enemy to attack even with half on guard. If he were to lead them in more than two sessions, the time required to perform these rituals could become astronomical. This is without even taking into account the time needed to remove & put on their armour. The ritual in this instance would be extremely impractical.

It would make more sense that the salat here be in the form of briefings regarding strategy with special care being taken that the Quranic etiquette regarding war, prisoners, etc. are being observed.

Although my study on salat is incomplete, I would ask that you look at the verses where salat appears, then go back in the text to the start of the theme and forward to the end of the theme. When I did this a common thread developed which indicates that the salat is an event that is used for the purpose of ensuring that the pure message is used as a measuring stick for our daily life decisions both on an individual as well as a community level. The common thread is that in many cases a departure from or hiding of the truth is mentioned. Salat is used to keep this kind of thing in check. This is especially true when autonomous communities are formed that accept the message. Before such a community has authority, they are a revolutionary movement. Once they have authority, they tend to become just another government. This is why there are verses that exhort the reader to establish the salat if given authority in the land.

Anyway, my study is not complete & I will post in more detail once I'm ready.

Imraan