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A personal view regarding salat

Started by yesuri2000, October 10, 2010, 02:25:41 PM

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yesuri2000


Salam

I have been a reader of this forum for a few years now and recently decided to join.

One of the main topics on this forum seems to be the issue of salat and the number of times we should pray each day. I have even seen some people state that the word salat does not mean prayer and seen people look at the whole root of the word salat to define its meaning. This seems a bit odd to me. As an Arabic speaker when I hear the word salat or salah I immediately think of prayer.

Although I can speak Arabic my language ability is not enough for me to start looking into the root of the word to define the meaning. I also believe that this can lead us to all sorts of conclusions about the meaning of the word and for me goes against the Quran being made easy for us to understand.

I am a believer that the number of times allocated for us to pray during a day is 3.

I had initially intended to do a write up about why I believe the number of times to pray is 3 and not 2 or 4 or 5. However I decided against this for two reasons

1)   I don?t always pray three times a day, sometimes once sometimes twice.
2)   Some days I don?t pray at all.

So I felt it would be hypocritical for me to sit here and preach about having to pray 3 times a day when I fail to follow this rule myself.

So I just wanted to share a personal view about the salat times of day issue and look at it from an angle which I feel is probably more important. (Please bear in mind that this is only a personal view and I am not going to be using verses from the Quran to back up my claims, go in depth into the matter or try to persuade anyone that this view is the correct one. I just wanted to share my feelings on this and see other people?s personal views).

Having read through the Quran a few times I feel that the main theme for salat is not the number of times we should pray each day but that prayer is something we need to do regularly. Although the main times emphasised are Dawn, Dusk and during night time (some may argue we also have to pray during the day). I have not seen anywhere which it says this has to be everyday or that when we do pray you have to do all prayers for that day. I am sure if god wanted us to pray everyday and to do all prayers of that day he could have easily said so. I have not seen this anywhere. If I have missed it and someone wants to show me then please do so.

So for me the most important factor is not the number of times a day we need to pray but that we do have to pray and this should be done regularly..

Regular prayer can be weekly, monthly, every other day, every few days etc.

For something to be regular it needs to be happening frequently and often. Although you may think that for something to happen regularly the intervals between two points need to be exact, this is not necessarily the case.
You can for example be a regular customer at a store or restaurant. Does this mean you go everyday? No, you might go every few days to the store when you need something or visit your favourite restaurant once a month. Also it?s worth noting that the intervals between the first and second time you go to the store do not need to be exactly a certain time apart for it to be regular either for example going to the store every two days. And the third time you go does not need to happen the exact same time between the first and second time and so on and so forth. 

The message of the Quran regarding Salat to me is that we should be praying and there are main times that we should do this. But what is more important is not that it is done everyday and at all 3 (2, 4, 5) times mentioned but that it is done regularly. You can decide to pray everyday, every few days, even weekly. Even if you pray everyday, you do not necessarily have to pray at all times which are mentioned in a day. You can only pray at dawn for a particular day and only at night for another day. What is important however is that you are praying and that this is done for sincere reasons.

Peace
5:69

progressive1993

Peace, and  :welcome: to the forum.

You should read the following articles, which are about the concept of "salat":

http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm
http://www.mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htm
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11539.0
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.0

As for the timing, the Quran asks the believers (mumineen) to perform the "salat" 2 times per day - at dawn and at sunset.
10:41 If they deny you, say: "My works are for me, and your works are for you. You are innocent of what I do, and I am innocent of what you do."

ayyub

Welcome brother!

I am all for trying to find the real meaning of words and verses. I do feel sometimes the search becomes more about finding something different than the original meaning, instead of the real meaning. With anything we research, if in the end the best conclusion is the original or most excepted meaning, that's fine.

Salam.
"Do not read to contradict and refute, nor to believe and take it for granted, but to weigh and consider." - Francis Bacon

Al-Sabr

salam to you!^^

well, i am also an arabic speaker, as well as some of those who claim that "salah" does not mean "prayer", but trying to understand the meaning of the word by looking at its root word..and in their view it is not odd at all^^

as well as not in mine..the arabic language in that aspect is very direct i think..for example, words of the same root word, like islam - aslim- muslim, you can expect that their meaning is very similar, their meaning would not spread out into different subjects!

i was just like you concerning that aspect..when i heard the words salah, hajj or zakah, i quickly connected them with the commly known islamic rituals prayer, pilgrimage and donation...but newly, i cannot understand anymore that the word "hajj" and its derivates mean to debate, to discuss in one verse, but in other parts of the quran, they mean a pilgrimage, something way different!

one should question if this unterstanding is right, or just an interpretation of our forefathers..
my thoughts concerning these points have changed newly, and especially the salah-thing is making me some headaches..^^
now i think that "salah" is semething way more than just praying to god, but i cannot say that to pray is a duty, or what praying is all about..
have to read all the quran and look up all the verses concerning the salah-issue in order to arrange my mind again^^

and no, i do not think that you would be hypicritical if you would explain to us your view about how much one should pray at a day, even if you fail to follow it..as you would just express your thoughts concerning that topic and discuss it with us.
you would be hypocritical if you say that you would pray that much all days and do not do it, or if you start to preach it all the time to others..but just by discussing or explaining it won't make you an hypocrite imo, as long as you are honest to yourself..=)

peace!

Rana

Quote from: Al-Sabr on October 11, 2010, 02:03:04 PM

and no, i do not think that you would be hypicritical if you would explain to us your view about how much one should pray at a day, even if you fail to follow it..as you would just express your thoughts concerning that topic and discuss it with us.
you would be hypocritical if you say that you would pray that much all days and do not do it, or if you start to preach it all the time to others..but just by discussing or explaining it won't make you an hypocrite imo, as long as you are honest to yourself..=)

peace!

I agree with that Al-Sabr.

Personally I think the label ''hypocrite'' is thrown at people way too much. My experience in the real world is it's used as a general put down and I wonder sometimes if it is used specifically to shut people up from having healthy discussions (call me cynical if you like, I probably am now ).
The middle path is the way to wisdom.
Rumi

Rana

Salaam.

I've recently come to the conclusion based on reading Quran that there are 3 as well. I do not know any Arabic and I'm far from a scholarly type so this was difficult for me and I did a lot of reading and checking of things...but basically I am not that knowledgable so I'd settled on the 3...to me they seem to be mentioned.

But from following the links that progressive1993 posted above I see others have come to the conclusion of 2. Wow!! So I've gone from 5 to 3 and now I'm wondering if I am on the right path with those. I'm sure it's ok to do more, but at some stage I will have to take more time, as you seem to have, to really delve into it. I don't think I have the energy and certainly not the time today.

"I feel that the main theme for salat is not the number of times we should pray each day but that prayer is something we need to do regularly. Although the main times emphasised are Dawn, Dusk and during night time (some may argue we also have to pray during the day)."

I actually got the idea of 3 being dawn, noon and dusk, but that may be (as stated) due to my lack of Arabic and inclination to delve deep enough.  :-[

Quran certainly does seem to emphasise the ''regularity'' of salaat. Thanks for posting this as it's on my mind.
The middle path is the way to wisdom.
Rumi

Al-Sabr

rana,

don't drive yourself crazy :D
just be as honest to yourself as you can be, and think about all the information you can get (or are able to get) very patiently..then everything will be fine=)
have in mind that god does not except from us humans something to do what we are not able to.

i also know most of the verses which are used to underline the 2/3-salahs-a-day theories, and i think the critical point here which decides between two or three salahs is the way how you understand the word "as-salatil-wusta", which is often translated as "the middle prayer"..some understand it as a third prayer in the middle of the day-> you get 3 prayers a day!
others understand it as the way one should pray, making it an explanation of the part of the verse before-> you get 2 prayers a day!

personally, i would support the 2-salah theory, as there are (as far as i know) only two times to make salah mentioned in the quran, which are dawn and dusk, thus also would understand the term "salatil-wusta" as the way the salah has to be made, as the verse tells us first to take care/attend to the salawat (arabic: hafidhu 'alas-salawati), and after that it reads "was-salatil-wusta", commonly understood as "the middle prayer", explaining for me that we should not make the prayer easygoing, nor should we exaggerate in it, but we should use a way in the middle.

my understanding could be wrong, as i am a human being just like the others, and that i can read and understand arabic does not make my interpretation better than those who cannot say even one word in arabic..
god does not teach us the quran/reading in arabic, but he teaches us the meaning of its message..and this message is not connected to any language =)

peace!

Al-Sabr

peace!

after i send my last post here, i got in mind to ask you something..

i would like to ask all of you who do the prayer to explain me how you do it..?
do you pray like sunni/shia, or do you all have your individual way of praying?

would really like to know that..=)

salam!

Wakas

peace all,

For those recently joined members of this site, you may find interesting to note that majority of long-term members here regard it as a minimum of two daily regular/timed salat.

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

exodus

The time that I begun to reading the Quran, I realized that there is something strange with word "salat" which translated as "namadh/prayer" in my readings. The situation that I've seen is very annoying and illogic in all aspects within translations. I was having strong sense that there is something wrong here. The portrayal of a God which commands to this kind of rituals was not acceptable concept for me anyway.

Then I begun to research and I saw that I was not only one in same question. I have realized that the problem was related with fabrication of new alternative religion named "Islam" and its pagan based rituals. Muslim scholars and follower translators were not able to realize or gave not sufficient effort to understanding what happened during revelation years.

What I see after some mind blowing efforts is salat was something kind of social duty with strong relationship within God's principles (deen/DYN). This duty was expanding whole day as not as like prayer/namadh. The base aspect of salat was straighting up (Iqaama) God's principles in nation with assigning ourselves/themselves by social duties/works. During  communicating with people and spreading out Qur'an, Mohammad made his salat in his own way. This was exactly what should be expected from him. He succeeded in his way but a lot of things went astray of this way later.

[25:30] And the messenger saith: O my Lord! Lo! mine own folk make this Qur?an of no account.

Peace.
And they say, "We believe in!". But how could it be possible from that distant place? (34:52)